Master Wheatley seminar in Cork

general choi

hi guys
I hear from a friend that Master Wheatley is coming to our local club this month for Taekwondo seminar. Just wondering if anyone has ever attended such a seminar and if you need to bring your dobok?
Any help appreciated.

pma-ire

general choi wrote:

hi guys
I hear from a friend that Master Wheatley is coming to our local club this month for Taekwondo seminar. Just wondering if anyone has ever attended such a seminar and if you need to bring your dobok?
Any help appreciated.

As he is a big shot in ITF-C I guess that you would have to bring your dobok with bells on!!

But then as your name is Genreal Choi you would already know that

Where do you train?

Would usually go to TaeKwon-Do seminars without your dobok??

yomchi

general choi wrote:

hi guys
I hear from a friend that Master Wheatley is coming to our local club this month for Taekwondo seminar. Just wondering if anyone has ever attended such a seminar and if you need to bring your dobok?
Any help appreciated.

Don't mind that fella posting above me..he's one of them Chung Do Kwan dissidents..

I've been at a few of Master Wheatleys seminars, they are really interesting from an ITF point of view he has a nice way about him and no holier than thou BS. If he does breaking with you you'll be in for a treat he likes to stick his fist through lumps of concrete... why I'll never know!

Hope it goes well!

pma-ire

Jon wrote:

Don't mind that fella posting above me..he's one of them Chung Do Kwan dissidents..

That depends on your point of view

memphis

Break it up now guys!!! LOL

Excuse my ignorance, who is this Master Wheatley ye speak of? The name certainly sounds familar. What dates are the seminars on, and where are they being held?

yomchi

memphis wrote:

Break it up now guys!!! LOL

Excuse my ignorance, who is this Master Wheatley ye speak of? The name certainly sounds familar. What dates are the seminars on, and where are they being held?

Master Robert Wheatley, originally from Wicklow now in the US and has been for a long time. He's an 8th dan in ITF Taekwon-Do and features in the TKD encyclopedia, his cousin Ken Wheatley is President of the ITA-formerly AITA.

www.usitf.com

memphis

Jon wrote:

Master Robert Wheatley, originally from Wicklow now in the US and has been for a long time. He's an 8th dan in ITF Taekwon-Do and features in the TKD encyclopedia, his cousin Ken Wheatley is President of the ITA-formerly AITA.

www.usitf.com

Ah yes of course. I knew the name was familar. Our club is in fact affilaiated to Master Wheatley and the USITF. I must speak to me instructor about this seminar and see if we can geta group of us down to it.

What date is it on and where?

buck65

I think Sat 21st octoberin Kinsale sports hall after lunch

Tim_Murphy

I was at a Robert Weatley seminar a few years ago. He seemed like a really nice guy but it was probably the most boring seminar I ever went to.

memphis

buck65 wrote:

I think Sat 21st octoberin Kinsale sports hall after lunch

Thats right. On 1.30pm to 4.30pm in kinsale as you say. Got notification of it at training last night, sadly i can't go along, as it falls on the same day as my nephews baptism.

buck65

went to the seminar on saturday
well presented quite a good workout with alot of techniques covered
Master Wheatley is quite serious about Taekwondo and inspirational as well. One slight criticism was the seminar skipped from technique to technique quite rapidly and it felt a bit helter skelter at times for us lower belts. Some good self defence techniques at the end.
Well done Kinsale for staging this important event.

yomchi

buck65 wrote:

went to the seminar on saturday
well presented quite a good workout with alot of techniques covered
Master Wheatley is quite serious about Taekwondo and inspirational as well. One slight criticism was the seminar skipped from technique to technique quite rapidly and it felt a bit helter skelter at times for us lower belts. Some good self defence techniques at the end.
Well done Kinsale for staging this important event.

Excellent. Can you outline what kind of self defence techniques were taught?

buck65

Hi Jon
We worked alot on breaking free from wrist holds , also worked on elbow strikes and thrusts in self defence situations.
he showed us a few neat little kicks also aimed at opponents knee or shin that could be incorporated into self defence.
He's a scary guy in full motion and to look at him you wouldn't think it- it just goes to show never underestimate your opponent!

yomchi

buck65 wrote:

Hi Jon
We worked alot on breaking free from wrist holds , also worked on elbow strikes and thrusts in self defence situations.
he showed us a few neat little kicks also aimed at opponents knee or shin that could be incorporated into self defence.
He's a scary guy in full motion and to look at him you wouldn't think it- it just goes to show never underestimate your opponent!

Ah the standard TKD approach to self defence! Sounds like you guys enjoyed the seminar!
The kicks to the legs were they like Thai kicks? I've heard alot about Master Wheatley's SD training.

pma-ire

We worked alot on breaking free from wrist holds

Jon wrote:

Ah the standard TKD approach to self defence!

I don't know why people think that they have to break free from wrist holds? (and I would think that you are talking about the usual hand around the wrist that is used for training that no one actually uses on you apart from your parents and teachers in the school yard )

At least they can't hit you with that hand

memphis

pma-ire wrote:

I don't know why people think that they have to break free from wrist holds? (and I would think that you are talking about the usual hand around the wrist that is used for training that no one actually uses on you apart from your parents and teachers in the school yard )

At least they can't hit you with that hand

LMAO

Good one Paul. I gotta laugh at that.

Its still a practical release and does work, whether its a likely one to come across in the real world or not, don't you think??

Tim_Murphy

Ah wrist lock self defence, you got to love it!

A more realistic, but only slightly funnier approach to self defence:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RKTSwAVaoU

buck65

Tim_Murphy wrote:

Ah wrist lock self defence, you got to love it!

It doesn't take long for the TKD slaters to get going does it?
Typical, pick something isolated, ridicule it and move off laughing!! Slap yourself on the back.
Indeed this could be done with all types of MAs but there you go.

Whizzo

Buck65, I know where you're coming from and I understand you're frustration re you're last post. But the lads have a point too.
I'm a TKD'er myself and I know that certain typical moves are used in SD in class and in gradings and wrist grabs, shoulder and lapel grabs (ie dobuk) are the usuals. But just because they're on a syllabus doesn't really mean they're right. Personally I think the TKD syllabus does need to be looked at re SD. But if you look at the TKD encyclopedia and the SD applications of TKD, it does look a bit daft., ie being attacked while sitting in you're chair by an opponent sitting in chair beside you, too many pleasantries!
I think a blank sheet with 'what can happen' on one side and 'what will work' on the other would be a start. I know in the organistation I'm in that this is being addressed.

yomchi

Whizzo wrote:

Buck65, I know where you're coming from and I understand you're frustration re you're last post. But the lads have a point too.
I'm a TKD'er myself and I know that certain typical moves are used in SD in class and in gradings and wrist grabs, shoulder and lapel grabs (ie dobuk) are the usuals. But just because they're on a syllabus doesn't really mean they're right. Personally I think the TKD syllabus does need to be looked at re SD. But if you look at the TKD encyclopedia and the SD applications of TKD, it does look a bit daft., ie being attacked while sitting in you're chair by an opponent sitting in chair beside you, too many pleasantries!
I think a blank sheet with 'what can happen' on one side and 'what will work' on the other would be a start. I know in the organistation I'm in that this is being addressed.

Which organisation are you with? Its badly needed I agree. Seriously if you want a real approach to Self Defence you need to be looking in the direction of Lee Morrison, Mick Coup, Dennis Martin, Geoff Thompson etc etc.. My base is 18 years ITF TKD and I have changed my out look on SD training for good.
This is what we do in my kids SD classes...



This training is accompanied by a written test on Awareness skills etc. The training also involves sudden and loud movements which increases adrenilin with the students. There's so much to it - but its all common sense. The training usually takes place in normal clothing. BTW I felt that kick big time!


I used to think good SD was wrist grabs etc - then I trained with Lee and got a wet slap across the face (not literally thank God )

Whizzo

Jon, I'm with the INTA, btw we don't have to say 'Sir' on the street:D

yomchi

Whizzo wrote:

Jon, I'm with the INTA, btw we don't have to say 'Sir' on the street:D

Im with you on that one!!

buck65

so are we now talking about "Street Taekwon - do"?
LOL

seriously some Krav Maga may be the answer??

yomchi

buck65 wrote:

so are we now talking about "Street Taekwon - do"?
LOL

seriously some Krav Maga may be the answer??

Experience some Lee Morrison if you get a chance. Liam Corkery has some details if you know him

memphis

Mr Corkery you say? Yeah I know the man. An impressive TKDer too, very flexible, and has some amazing techniques. How doi you know him Jon?

Anyway, what sort of stuff does Lee Morrison incorporate into his seminars?

And what else did I miss at Master Wheatleys seminar? Did he do any breaking and that?

pma-ire

memphis wrote:

LMAO

Good one Paul. I gotta laugh at that.

Its still a practical release and does work, whether its a likely one to come across in the real world or not, don't you think??

You have to realise where this type of training came from!

Most "wrist grabbing SD" came from Aikijujitsu. Where they were training swords men how to deal with people that grabbed them by the wrist trying to stop them drawing the sword.

It could be looked at something that armed police forces could releate to for the same reasons. But not really something that would happen to the rest of us!!

I do teach some SD from the wrist grab, but only as a base to lead onto other counter locks and point strikes. Some to the TKD SD stuff is quite dangerous to be trying to rely on and as with everything, has to be looked at with open eyes and a pick of reality. Like, I've never seen a TKD instructor factor in the fact that a fist is gonna usually follow the grab

pma-ire

buck65 wrote:

so are we now talking about "Street Taekwon - do"?
LOL

seriously some Krav Maga may be the answer??

whatever they are teaching you could do yourself with a bit of thought!

pma-ire

buck65 wrote:

Tim_Murphy wrote:

Ah wrist lock self defence, you got to love it!

It doesn't take long for the TKD slaters to get going does it?
Typical, pick something isolated, ridicule it and move off laughing!! Slap yourself on the back.
Indeed this could be done with all types of MAs but there you go.

Tim is a TKD bb and his views on the art are as valid as anyones!

He is not taking this in isolation.

Tim_Murphy

It doesn't take long for the TKD slaters to get going does it?

I'm not a TKD slater, I'm a TKD 3rd Dan. :cool: :eek:

Indeed this could be done with all types of MAs but there you go.

lots? Yes. All? No.

Clive

Whats the problem with TKD wrist lock escapes? I use them all the time in zhoo zhitsoo, and I've seen several instances ON THE STREET where people have grabbed the other person by the wrist to prevent being punched in the face.

yomchi

memphis wrote:

Mr Corkery you say? Yeah I know the man. An impressive TKDer too, very flexible, and has some amazing techniques. How doi you know him Jon?

Anyway, what sort of stuff does Lee Morrison incorporate into his seminars?

And what else did I miss at Master Wheatleys seminar? Did he do any breaking and that?

Yeh I've met him a few times. We keep in touch via email. A gentleman.

For morei nfo on Lee Morrison see here www.urbancombatives.com

Dyr

pma-ire wrote:

Y

Most "wrist grabbing SD" came from Aikijujitsu. Where they were training swords men how to deal with people that grabbed them by the wrist trying to stop them drawing the sword.

*puts on amateur historian hat*

Aikijujutsu is a very specific subset of japanese martial arts. shag all people had heard of it before takeda sokaku started teaching daito ryu to the public at the turn of the 20th century. Considering JMA schools had wrist/arm/lapel grabs before that and they had already travelled to the west by then you can't say AJJ was the origin of this stuff. Though, apparently, AJJ styles do the wrist grab thing be the new time

Modern wrist grabby self defence stemmed from its use in jujutsu/bujutsu schools, mostly for prevention/facilitation of stabiness.

pma-ire

Bambi wrote:

*puts on amateur historian hat*

Aikijujutsu is a very specific subset of japanese martial arts. shag all people had heard of it before takeda sokaku started teaching daito ryu to the public at the turn of the 20th century. Considering JMA schools had wrist/arm/lapel grabs before that and they had already travelled to the west by then you can't say AJJ was the origin of this stuff. Though, apparently, AJJ styles do the wrist grab thing be the new time

Modern wrist grabby self defence stemmed from its use in jujutsu/bujutsu schools, mostly for prevention/facilitation of stabiness.

I don't know much about that part of JMA's. But if you take out the term AJJ I seem to have gotten most of the idea right!! Ju Jitsu arts were certainly the origin. As I don't think that Chinese Chin-Na is as focused on this aspect??

pma-ire

Jon wrote:

Yeh I've met him a few times. We keep in touch via email. A gentleman.

I met him at a training camp in Tipperary 2 years ago and he seemed like a nice guy with a great out look on his training!!

Second on left!

memphis

pma-ire wrote:

I met him at a training camp in Tipperary 2 years ago and he seemed like a nice guy with a great out look on his training!!

Second on left!

I can't open that link here in the college paul. but i'm guessing its the one of all the instructors together at the training camp in mellery 2 years ago??

My instructor is the bearded guy!! My club and Mr Corkery's club are affiliated. As you say Jon he is a true gentleman, very chattly and friendly, and full of his fun too!! Have met him on a number of ocassions at tournaments and events, with the first time being when we competed in Holland at the EU champs in 2003.

john kavanagh

Clive wrote:

Whats the problem with TKD wrist lock escapes? I use them all the time in zhoo zhitsoo, and I've seen several instances ON THE STREET where people have grabbed the other person by the wrist to prevent being punched in the face.

*puts broken record on to 'repeat'*

as always, its not the technique that counts but rather the training method. most MA's have similar techniques....but also most MA's share the same poor training method. sparring Clinch and Ground with MMA mindset will give you plenty of 'live' time and experience on breaking wrist grabs, headlocks etc that will transend the scenario. doing loads of repetitions with a compliant partner will not.

buck65

just wondering who that guy Leonard was who had an extra sine wave in his step during the seminar - he was quite adamant that he was right ? was he wrong or not?

yomchi

buck65 wrote:

just wondering who that guy Leonard was who had an extra sine wave in his step during the seminar - he was quite adamant that he was right ? was he wrong or not?

What exactly was he saying?

john kavanagh

buck65 wrote:

just wondering who that guy Leonard was who had an extra sine wave in his step during the seminar

did he go off on a 'tangent'?

(geeky joke for the calculus nerds)

Colm_OReilly

*puts broken record on to 'repeat'*

What's a record? Showing your age John, you should get an iPod.

john kavanagh

Colm_OReilly wrote:

What's a record? Showing your age John, you should get an iPod.

*puts mp3 file onto 'repeat'* just doesn't have the same ring to it!

Colm_OReilly

john kavanagh wrote:

*puts mp3 file onto 'repeat'* just doesn't have the same ring to it!

Well do you want to sound good or do you want to be functional? Really sticking to your traditional music appreciation (TMA) there JK, me I'm more into Modern Music Appreication (MMA)