Chorus versus Sky ?? what do u think??

oddone

Hi all,

I currently pay Chrous €46 approx a month for the following tv channels which i receive through cable.
Sky sports 1,2,3 (seperate package i think)
Rte 1, rte 2, Tv 3, TG4, BBC 1 , BBC 2 (NI), Channel 4, E4,
SkyAttheraces, Sky News, Mtv, Some bloody french channel Tv5 i think.

The service is ok, I havent had any serious problems although have had
certain channle down from time to time but on the whole its been reliable.

I just got a Sky digital brochure in the door which promises free installation until the end of October I think and from what I've read any two packages (i think roughly ten channels in each) for €10.75 a month for the first three months then €22 after that.
Sounds good although again you would have to pay more for the sports
package.
Would I be foolish not to switch?

watty

If you on MMDS then switch. If you on Cable, then Digital TV + Broadband + Phone soon will be good.

If you mostly watch ITV & BBC, and get a TV aerial for RTE, and don't need sports then after a year satellite costs nothing.

There are + and -

You can get 6 ITV and about 8 BBC channels, perfect quality, free, even if you cancel.

The two best value packs are Knowledge and Variety.

CNN, Sky News, Euronews, various POP and Kid channels are also free even when you cancel.

But if you want broadband and sport, then stick with cable, it is getting upgraded. But MMDS is likely to be phased out.

Mac Freak

if sky breaks down then you pay all fee's for new LNB's / Aerials / Callouts out of warranty. If Chorus breaks down you pay zilch !

Liam Byrne

Change to Chorus Digital - lots more channels, plus the option of watching one while taping one of the analogue ones (which are still there behind the scenes).

Far better than relying on Sky's systems.

The other option (if you can put up a satellite dish) is to get a Freeview satellite receiver and get all of the standard UK channels for nothing!

bk

Liam Byrne wrote:

Change to Chorus Digital - lots more channels, plus the option of watching one while taping one of the analogue ones (which are still there behind the scenes).

Warning, that depends on your location. In Cork Chorus scrambles the analogue TV service using crappy Jerold boxes, so that doesn't work, making cable less attractive.

cunninstunt

Should prob put this in a new thread but can anyone point me to a link that details Chorus pricing for the different packages. Only one I can find is this

http://www.iolfree.ie/~icdg/chorus_digital1.htm

And it seems a bit out of date.

I currently have Chorus Digital and want to add the sports and movies packages but cant find a price quote for them anywhere. The chorus website is shocking.

watty

Ring them

John1000

cunninstunt,
on www.chorus.ie
click on televison, digital tv, prices.

you need Internet Explorer for the web site to work correctely.
I can't give a direct link to it because of the macromedia flash
software it uses on the site...

watty

It works on Firefox too.

Stugots

watty wrote:

But MMDS is likely to be phased out.

What leads you to beleive this? In favour of what alternate technology?

watty

It is using a band illegally allocated.
The reason in the first place was for BBC / ITV outside cable areas
BBC / ITV now free on Satellite
DTT will come eventually and have all the UK non-pay TV channels
it doesn't support broadband & VOIP: UPC wishes to offer a standard triple play to all customers
It can't support as many channels and IPTV/VOD and HDTV as cable can
It is poor quality and badly engineered.

Freddie59

watty wrote:

It is using a band illegally allocated.
The reason in the first place was for BBC / ITV outside cable areas
BBC / ITV now free on Satellite
DTT will come eventually and have all the UK non-pay TV channels
it doesn't support broadband & VOIP: UPC wishes to offer a standard triple play to all customers
It can't support as many channels and IPTV/VOD and HDTV as cable can
It is poor quality and badly engineered.

Watty - as I've already said things nowadays are moving beyond BBC/ITV. Convergence is the order of the day.

How was it illegally allocated?

On what basis is your statement on DTT founded?

It could probably very easily accomodate BB/VOIP - Chorus carried out some very successful tests some years back (can't find the URL).

How do you know it is badly engineered? Have you worked for Chorus or NTL?

My sister has NTL digital on MMDS, and, for something that you claim is badly engineered it performs very well.:)

watty

The Chorus wireless BB operated for some years, but on a different band. No connection with MMDS.

Comreg has already specifically reduced MMDS band by 100MHz precisely to prevent BB usage. 2.5GHz is not a European Allocation for MMDS. Ireland must abide by ITU and more particularly CEPT standards. 2.5GHz will eventually either be Wimax or Mobile Phone.

The signal link budgets are too poor. Most Analogue customers get poorer pictures than off an Aerial. It was a system designed for very cheap deployment and much of the analogue gear is designed of NTSC cable TV. It was built down to a price. It should have used FM or Digital from the beginning, not simply radiating the converted cable channels.

The NTL MMDS was 100% converted to Digital as the licence demanded. Some Chorus MMDS areas did not have Digital at all till recently. The ex NTL parts of MMDS much better enginnered than Choruas as they only had a much smaller number of MMDS customers and upgraded the whole MMDS system, it does not share with analogue. THe Chorus MMDS has been upgraded to digital piece meal and all areas AFAIK have a analog / digital mix.

Many Digital MMDS subscribers suffer from picture freezing and breakup. The Digital signals are more compressed than Satellite or DTT.

I do know ex Network Chorus person and as ex BBC communications dept qualified to know good or bad microwave systems when I see them.

In fairness Chorus engineers struggled against small budgets etc and did replace the poor analog off air reception in Keeper Hill for Tipp/Limerick with a well engineered microwave link to Cavan (Analogue though). First private licenced link in the country.

I've taken apart a Jerrold box (US cable TV descrambler used also by MMDS) and it is a savage piece of kit.

I've never ever seen an acceptable analogue MMDS or cable signal in Limerick area. The Digital Chorus is a huge improvement, but still poorer than satellite and many people get a marginal signal.

UPC cable (replacing Chorus / NTL) looks like being a great product and ideal in placed not allowed a dish and have BB & phone. There are many reasons why you might chose Cable over Sky or FTA satellite.

MMDS needs a dish almost as big as a Sky dish. It is a similar price to Sky pay TV, for an inferior service. Satellite has far better quality and you still get 45 decent TV channels when you cancel. The ONLY reason to have MMDS is c4 and it is not hard to organise that on Sky.

Satellite makes MMDS look a very stupid system. DTT will be the final nail in the coffin. I've installed FREE satellite TV (which has a lot more than BBC/ITV) for people that had Chorus MMDS, and they would have cancelled years earlier if they had realised the choice and quality even for free. Some of these people only have to ring Sky to add Pay TV channels. Many have easily added C4 & Five quite legally. (Though no-one can legally sell you this as a product, you may legally make a personal arrangement).

C4 may go FTA in 2008 and then Chorus/NTL MMDS will have nothing to offer compared to satellite except a poorer quality service with fewer channels for the same money.

John1000

watty wrote:

The Digital signals are more compressed than Satellite or DTT.

Does that mean that , say, Sky One on Chorus/NTL has a poorer picture
quality than Sky One on satellite?

watty

Absolutely, but Sky1 is not a good example as it isn't one of the best.
Of course on Satellite there is a handfull of HD channels now too, but only BBC HD free, and it is only a trial.

Freddie59

watty wrote:

The Chorus wireless BB operated for some years, but on a different band. No connection with MMDS.

Comreg has already specifically reduced MMDS band by 100MHz precisely to prevent BB usage. 2.5GHz is not a European Allocation for MMDS. Ireland must abide by ITU and more particularly CEPT standards. 2.5GHz will eventually either be Wimax or Mobile Phone.

The signal link budgets are too poor. Most Analogue customers get poorer pictures than off an Aerial. It was a system designed for very cheap deployment and much of the analogue gear is designed of NTSC cable TV. It was built down to a price. It should have used FM or Digital from the beginning, not simply radiating the converted cable channels.

The NTL MMDS was 100% converted to Digital as the licence demanded. Some Chorus MMDS areas did not have Digital at all till recently. The ex NTL parts of MMDS much better enginnered than Choruas as they only had a much smaller number of MMDS customers and upgraded the whole MMDS system, it does not share with analogue. THe Chorus MMDS has been upgraded to digital piece meal and all areas AFAIK have a analog / digital mix.

Many Digital MMDS subscribers suffer from picture freezing and breakup. The Digital signals are more compressed than Satellite or DTT.

I do know ex Network Chorus person and as ex BBC communications dept qualified to know good or bad microwave systems when I see them.

In fairness Chorus engineers struggled against small budgets etc and did replace the poor analog off air reception in Keeper Hill for Tipp/Limerick with a well engineered microwave link to Cavan (Analogue though). First private licenced link in the country.

I've taken apart a Jerrold box (US cable TV descrambler used also by MMDS) and it is a savage piece of kit.

I've never ever seen an acceptable analogue MMDS or cable signal in Limerick area. The Digital Chorus is a huge improvement, but still poorer than satellite and many people get a marginal signal.

UPC cable (replacing Chorus / NTL) looks like being a great product and ideal in placed not allowed a dish and have BB & phone. There are many reasons why you might chose Cable over Sky or FTA satellite.

MMDS needs a dish almost as big as a Sky dish. It is a similar price to Sky pay TV, for an inferior service. Satellite has far better quality and you still get 45 decent TV channels when you cancel. The ONLY reason to have MMDS is c4 and it is not hard to organise that on Sky.

Satellite makes MMDS look a very stupid system. DTT will be the final nail in the coffin. I've installed FREE satellite TV (which has a lot more than BBC/ITV) for people that had Chorus MMDS, and they would have cancelled years earlier if they had realised the choice and quality even for free. Some of these people only have to ring Sky to add Pay TV channels. Many have easily added C4 & Five quite legally. (Though no-one can legally sell you this as a product, you may legally make a personal arrangement).

C4 may go FTA in 2008 and then Chorus/NTL MMDS will have nothing to offer compared to satellite except a poorer quality service with fewer channels for the same money.

Watty - why do yet seem to take it personally when someone offers a positive comment about MMDS? Here in Waterford, my NTL analogue pictures are very good (consistently), with digital slightly better. Have a look at the screenshots below (selection of analogue channels captured on a Hauppage TV Card - right-click on the thumbnail and properties to identify the channel).

There is practically little or no difference between Sky One on NTL and Sky One on Sky direct. Given the terrible quality of the content at times, you could hardly choose - except maybe an obviously trained eye like your own, given the experience you quote.

You've very obviously received a very poor cable service in the past, and are rightly entitled to complain. However, as the pictures below demonstrate, you can't paint them all with the same brush.

DTT will be the final nail? Well - that remains to be seen. Wasn't FTA BBC/ITV supposed to be that? As I've said many times before - be careful what you wish for. If the merged UPC entity were to fail, then it's open season for Sky - with no competition. Would you really want that?

watty

NTL not Chorus.

Besides SOMEBODY is bound top have not too bad pictures. At least 3/4 of Analogue ordinary TV in this country is well below par too.

Freddie59

watty wrote:

NTL not Chorus.

Besides SOMEBODY is bound top have not too bad pictures. At least 3/4 of Analogue ordinary TV in this country is well below par too.

Point taken. But would you agree the above screenshots can be defined as better than 'not too bad'? And what IS your opinion on a monopoly Sky?

Antenna

watty wrote:

It should have used FM or Digital from the beginning,

Watty,
Digital transmission to subscribers would have been a complete non-runner around 1990 (when MMDS began?)

And if satellite style FM was used instead of VSB-AM in the allocated MMDS band, yes it would have been better quality BUT there would have been only room for 3 or 4 TV channels instead of 11/12?


(Don't get me wrong, I'm not here to defend MMDS:)

watty

Nope some countries had digital MMDS then. Also FM MMDS would have been be superior, now 40 year old technology (and they still could have had 11 channels!) AM signal as on current Analogue MMDS is essentially the same as used 70 years ago.

The MMDS used actual models of technology already neary 20 years old by 1992.

The posted shots look OK, but unless 768/720/704 x 576 capture, hard to tell, those are about 1/2 resolution?


Anyway, UPC *IS* replacing ALL the Chorus gear as the STB are much more expensive than the NTL Digital MMDS. The two systems are different & incompatible! Ex Chorus areas and ex NTL areas (MMDS) will both be Digital only and about 120 channels, same lineup, same EPG and same STB.

I have no experience of the current NTL digtal MMDS. It is small compared with Chorus MMDS. The Analogue Chorus MMDS is savage and the Digital Chorus MMDS only "OK" if your signal is very good.

We are essentialy talking about 3 completely different systems.

Freddie59

watty wrote:

The posted shots look OK, but unless 768/720/704 x 576 capture, hard to tell, those are about 1/2 resolution?

Sorry about that Watty - here's 800 x 600 for you. As you can appreciate, if I post the rest of them same size I'd probably be banned!:D Don't forget that they will be slightly degraded due to PC card, etc.

channelsurfer

watty any idea when they will get round to the 120 channel mmds system for chorus or will it be a few years. in the old cmi cable area here and they are putting mmds aerials up all over town rather than upgrade the cable so it seems to a while away for digital cable but would be interested in the 120 channel mmds.

anyone know if setanta and upc have agreed or are still discussing whether setant will be on the basic mmds package in the new overall package for chorus?

watty

Freddie59 wrote:

Sorry about that Watty - here's 800 x 600 for you. As you can appreciate, if I post the rest of them same size I'd probably be banned!:D Don't forget that they will be slightly degraded due to PC card, etc.

Yes, indeed it proves ex NTL area is a totally different system to ex Chorus area MMDS!

Ask UPC when they might "upgrade" your Chorus MMDS. I don't know.