Tone, Fingers etc.

sei046

I am sorry karl i realise i probably did not explain that the best. We listen to a player and think oh my god thats not great.....but JP would sound class in an MG anyway! Too much emphasis is put on gear. I would advise people to work on their playing moreso than their sound for a while!

Doctor J

I think that, on guitar anyway, the amp plays a huge role since the primary effect, overdrive/distortion is dominant in colouring the sound in a way that it isn't on bass for example, where it's really just EQ and the loudening. A players phrasing and touch will be evident and mark their individuality but no amount of technique will make a shrill Marshall sound like a beefy Mesa, for example. They may sound great and their playing style will be evident, but the amp will still play a huge part in the colouring of their sound.

sei046

Thats not in doubt Doc, But do you not feel the majority of a players sounds comes from his technique? You will always hear Jimmy, JP, Kirk hammet etc. through any amp and Jimi Hendrix through JPs Rig will not sound like Jp. Surely its the more important?

Doctor J

As I said, their phrasing, touch etc will come across but Petrucci wouldn't sound the same as he does now on a strat though a low gain rig. Brian May wouldn't sound the same through a triple rec. He'd sound like Brian May but it wouldn't be the Brian May sound, if you know what I mean. The players phrasing and touch would be evident but the fundamental tone would be different. Playing style and guitar tone are different things in my eyes, you can compensate to an extent with playing but there are certain things, like the type of gain an amp adds to a signal, that are fundamental to the amp and can't be overcome. All of those players found and settled on rigs which they felt complimented their playing style for a reason. The rig is important. Yes, how you play is the most important of all, but getting the right setup for what you play and how you want to play it is crucial too. I mean, if you imagine the likes of SRV played through a DOD GrungeMaster pedal into a valvestate, yeah the guy can play but the tone is ****. A fizzy amp is going ot sound **** playing a chug riff even if Hetfield is the player. An AC30 has a sound of its own, a Dual Rec has a sound of its own, a Fender Twin has a sound of its own, regardless of who the player is, the characteristics of the amp will always colour the output. I spent almost two hours last week getting a guitar tone for a particular track with a guy, went through three amps and two guitars before getting the right tone, the guy playing the same piece the same way. The amp was the clincher though, more so than a single coil or humbucker or how he played it, the amp was the key to getting the tone. Using the likes of Hendrix or Page isn't realy the best for examples though, you're talking guys who redefined playing and, even with the best intentions, some guys have supernatural talent which is great to aim for but you've got to be realistic about someone's ability too. Hendrix and Page used rigs which worked well with their playing styles and that, to me, is the key, to find the amp which helps you express yourself the best, the amp which compliments your style and helps you achieve the sound you want to achieve in combination with your touch and ability.

Quattroste

I understand both sides here. Get the amp and guitar that you know are capable of the tone you want, and then when you realise they still sound sh1te, its because you, the actual guitarist is the problem. Next step practice your technique more and more and more, otherwise like me, you will always sound sh1te.

Doctor J

That sounds about right

sei046

Quattroste wrote:

I understand both sides here. Get the amp and guitar that you know are capable of the tone you want, and then when you realise they still sound sh1te, its because you, the actual guitarist is the problem. Next step practice your technique more and more and more, otherwise like me, you will always sound sh1te.

Exactly

Paligulus

sei046 wrote:

Exactly

:eek:

A thread about guitar playing that ends with a reasonable conclusion that everybody can appreciate. The appocolypse has finally arrived!!!

I agree though, e.g. Gilmour : 50 % tone, 50% note choice and phracing.


Personally speaking, I think its hard to admit that even after doing all those hours of practice that if your not willing to fork out the cash there's still going to be something missing in your sound. Very frustrating for players. I think that's why these kinds of topics pop up. I know that I've had heated discussions about this when I was younger, knowing in the back of my mind that I had to go home to my Kustom amp and epiphone guitar!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hendrix89

''Too much emphasis is put on gear. I would advise people to work on their playing moreso than their sound for a while!''

Im sorry but i've been doing that with my vintage ri'62 strat through my miserable MG50DFX for too long... Actually i find i dont enjoy playing anymore cause of the schitty sound that rings out everytime i try and put some feeling into it :-(. Been playing less.

sei046

well hendrix thats wrong! there is def something wrong there

-=al=-

and make Jimi left handed for feck sake

Quattroste

What would you rather have people say about you after you've played.

1) What a great guitarist. If he/she had better gear they would be amazing.
or
2) What a waste of good gear. His/her rig was out of this world, pity they didn't put as much effort into practising. More money than sense.


Hendrix89. Beg, borrow, steal(don't get caught), save, sell your existing gear if your not happy and get new gear but don't stop playing.

Hendrix89

sei046 wrote:

well hendrix thats wrong! there is def something wrong there

I know theres something wrong. I need a good amp, thats whats wrong...
And i think the sound is the thing you enjoy most when playing (thats how i feel anyway). I mean isnt it nice when you play your fav artist's song and it sounds like them? Okay you have to play like them but if you at least had the tone you'd have more confidence in reaching their level... I mean i went all out to get an 1100eu (1800 here) Strat only to find that there isnt much difference in the sound than my mex. The dam amp of course... Theres no way i can get a 2 1/2 grand amp...legally. Just no way...
See what it puts you through! Has to be done though.

''and make Jimi left handed for feck sake''

Well now im not going to... Its really anoying you isnt it?
Don't you think its interesting? Kinda abstract:cool:

Savman

why does it fel like this thread started halfway thru some other thread??!

feylya

It did

Asiaprod

Doctor J wrote:

As I said, their phrasing, touch etc will come across but Petrucci wouldn't sound the same as he does now on a strat though a low gain rig. Brian May wouldn't sound the same through a triple rec. He'd sound like Brian May but it wouldn't be the Brian May sound, if you know what I mean.

Great post, agree 100%. It cost me lots, was worth it.

-=al=-

It's just wrong!


im doing a gig this fri at the legal eagle filling in for someone, doin some of my own and some satch/vai covers, ive no idea how its gona go, either disasterously bad or good... but feel free to come in and see my wonderfull Tone from my fingers

and here u go...

Hendrix89

Okay its sorted:)

Oh and good luck on that gig.

-=al=-