UEFA Cup Draw

Andrew 83

Leverkusen
Brugges
Besiktas
Dinamo Bucharest
Spurs

sikes

happy with that

hopefully we will be home to leverkusen and besiktas

yiddo

Thursday 19 October - Besiktas (Turkey) (A)
Thursday 2 November - Club Brugge (Belgium) (H)
Thursday 23 November - Bayer 04 Leverkusen (Germany) (A)
Thursday 14 December - Dinamo Bucuresti (Romania) (H)

There were eight groups of five clubs drawn and the top three will progress to the round of 32 after the teams have played each other once. The successful teams will be joined in the knock out stages by the eight third place teams from the Champions League.

WhiteWashMan

could have been easier, but now we have the teams, lets make sure we qualify

Running Bing

yiddo wrote:

Spurs-Leverkusen 18/19 oct
Club Brugge - Spurs 1/2 nov
Spurs - Besiktas 22/23 nov
Dinamo Bucharest - Spurs 29/30 nov
Not playing on 5th matchday. But that may change if we clash with some other games.

Sure its not the other way around yiddo as in we have besiktas and Bayer away and brugge and dinamo at home. Thats the way I thought it was which is worst case scenario. Anyway very tough group with plenty of european experience between them, we should at least get third though. Berbo at his old club should be interesting too.

yiddo

So you spotted my delibrate mistake?;) I've amended my original post!

Running Bing

Damn, I really was hoping that wasnt a mistake.:(

therecklessone

I've had a look at last years groups available here

Of the 8 3rd placed sides, only two finished with 7+ points.

One finished tied on 9pts with the top two in the group, but 4th place had only 3pts (group G)

One finished with 7pts, ahead of the 4th placed team on 4pts (group

By my reckoning, two home wins and a draw should suffice to qualify for the last 32 of the tournament. Even two home wins with a positive goal differencemight be enough.

Also, due to the fixtures being on Thursdays, a number of our other games will need changing. No confirmation yet from the club, but we're probably looking at:

West Ham (H) move from Sat 21 October to Sun 22 October
Wigan (H) move from Sat 25 November to Sun 26 November
Man City (A) move from Sat 16 December to Sun 17 December

The last one is a TV game, so Sky may try to insist it's played on Saturday.

Running Bing

Id rather finish third than second and not face a champs league drop out but we have to be aiming to win the group and make life easy for ourselves.

chalky76

They will be fearing us......Anderlecht are Belguims top side & they reguarly get whipped in Europe by Champs Lge side,we were 1 dodgy lasagne away from being just that,a champions lge team.......2nd rate Turks/Belgiums & Romanians dont bother me.....Last time i looked at the Bundersliga table Leverkusson were nearly bottom so there hardly sh*t hot,Hertha Berlin,top of the Bundersliga were knocked out of the UEFA Cup 2 weeks ago by some noname side which suggests the German Lge isnt the best......The fact that we havent been seeded is scandolous,as is the 8 teams joining from the Champs Lge,they have had their pie,why give them any more?Answer is G14 who govern the game,its nothing more than a security egg nest incase you have a bad Champions Lge Qualifying time,thus ensuring regular income....If Manchester United hadnt finished BOTTOM of their group last year they too would of benefited from this G14 skullduggery......

therecklessone

chalky76 wrote:

The fact that we havent been seeded is scandolous,as is the 8 teams joining from the Champs Lge,they have had their pie,why give them any more?Answer is G14 who govern the game,its nothing more than a security egg nest incase you have a bad Champions Lge Qualifying time,thus ensuring regular income.....

Plenty of conspiracy theories chalky, but this one is way off the mark.

We are not seeded because we were too s*it the last 7 years to qualify for Europe. Uefa's seeding system is based on your last 5 years participation in European competition, since we were competing we don't points towards our coefficient,therfore we don't get seeded. It's not that difficult to understand.

WhiteWashMan

chalky76 wrote:

Last time i looked at the Bundersliga table Leverkusson were nearly bottom so there hardly sh*t hot,

no offence like, but have you seen where spurs are in the league?

last time i looked, leverkusan had 8 points from 6 games. and i would imagine that at least 3 of those teams are capable of beating us on their good day, our off day.

but i do think we should go though on paper.

chalky76

Surely finishing 5th in the Premiership should be good enough basis for seeding,never mind being twice former winners of the trophy......When the runaway winners of the Premiership cant get seeding in the Champions Lge what chance have we got........And Leverkuson"s 1.3 pts a game is hardly pulling up trees is it!!There was no Anfield or Old Trafford fixtures for them either......they currently lie joint 12th thanks to a defence that has conceded 8 goals in their past 5 lge matches......Hardly worldbeaters!!And i stand by my comments on G14......They are crooks intested in lining their own pockets at the expense of others...Have Juventus been thrown out of G14?Have Milano?My point exactly................

therecklessone

chalky76 wrote:

Surely finishing 5th in the Premiership should be good enough basis for seeding,never mind being twice former winners of the trophy

No, finishing 5th in the PL is not good enough basis for being seeded. You see, there are plenty of other sides in the competition who are regular competitors in Europe, while we were mid-table at best under Pleat/Hoddle/Graham/Gross/Francis etc. Our history in the tournament means nothing, nor should it. If Forest were to rise to the top of the English game again (unlikely, I know) would you say they should be seeded because they've won two European Cups under Clough? Frankly, that is a nonsense suggestion.

chalky76 wrote:

.....When the runaway winners of the Premiership cant get seeding in the Champions Lge what chance have we got........

That depends. Are we going to be permanent fixtures in European competition for the next few years? Chelsea will be a top seed in the CL next year or the year after, as their continuing participation yields them a higher coefficient every year. That is how things should be.

chalky76 wrote:

And Leverkuson"s 1.3 pts a game is hardly pulling up trees is it!!There was no Anfield or Old Trafford fixtures for them either......they currently lie joint 12th thanks to a defence that has conceded 8 goals in their past 5 lge matches......Hardly worldbeaters!!

Have they lost at home (like we have)? They've beaten 5th placed Schalke and 6th placed Aachen at home, and lost to 3rd placed Bremen and 9th placed Frankfurt away from home. Their two draws were at home to 15th placed Wolfsburg and 17th placed Hannover. They currently lie 8th in the Bundesliega, not 12th, and have scored 10 goals in return for the 8 conceeded (we've scored 4, conceeding 9). Thats a better record than ours on every single count.

While we're on the subject of history, I might add they've reached the CL final in 2002, and won a Uefa Cup in 1988, far better returns than we've achieved in the same period, wouldn't you agree?

League form should have no bearing on UEFA seeding, but if it did I'm sure you'd agree that Dinamo Bucharest with 10 wins in 10 in the Romanian league would be top seeds...

chalky76

Wont be posting anymore as i dont like my every line being scruitinised & picked off......Obviously i"m not up to your standard of knowledge,hence why you rubbish my opinion......You should change your screen name to Ayotollah...Other peoples opinions dont matter....P.s Leverkuson are 8th/joint12th......some people have far too much time on their hands:rolleyes:

therecklessone

Anyone with the courage to back up their opinions is welcome here, differences of opinion make good discussion.

Dublin Spur

Don't know too much about our euro chances, but there's something I want to get off my chest:

Seedings have ruined the magic. This goes for international qualifier groups too. An open draw would be great. Why should there be seedings at all. Why should anyone care if 1 Group contained England, Italy, France & Germany ??
What amazing games there would throw up. Why wait for the finals to see the big clashes, recent finals comps have been very very dour from what I've seen.

The powers that be seem to want to protect the strongest clubs & nations to the detrement of the qualifiers. Thus ensuring that the biggest countries qualify for every finals comp.

So all the big boys qualify for the finals, but the games are all ****, bar a couple of exceptions. The last great finals comp was 1986 IMO.

I suppose I'm just generally pissed off with the way the powers that be run the game as a business rether than a sport. Finding it harder and harder to relate to it.

Having said all of that, see you in Glasgow in May

chalky76

But when your spoken to like a school teacher does to a 10yr old young fella its not good at all.......if you want to dictate to people then get a job in the press,anyone can sit for hours behind a screen & arm themselves with stats......Your negativity towards THFC Euro campaign is startling,are you in the Martin out brigade?If you think Leverkuson are a top draw outfit then thats up to you......As i have allready stated the Bunderliga leaders Hertha Berlin were dumped out of Europe a fortnight ago by some 2bob outfit(im sure your know who!) which suggests the German league at this moment in time to be poor so i dont adhear to your argument,just as i dont your assumption that the likes of Dinamo Bucharest(2 team lge with the military run Steaue) & Beskitas(allways playing catch up to galatasary/fernabache in a poor/corrupt lge) are on a par with 2006THFC,let alone rightly above us in seedings...........Your failure to understand that G14 have implemented the 8 team drop out for personal gain doesnt do you any favours if you want taking seriously as a football pundit,they have been lining their pockets/looking after their own clubs intrests since they dreamed up the money spinning group stages.....As i have also previously stated Juventus & Ac Milan are founder members of this legalised mafia & still continue to dictate operations with such integral members as David Dein the Gooner chairman who gave Ericssonn £120000 a week on a contract until 2010 just to keep the genuis that is Arsene Wenger at HIS club when his fellow FA board members wanted him in charge of England on considerably less money............Just like the gap between rich in Blackrock & the poor in Ballymun gets wider apart G14 have been doing this to football for close on a decade,does anyone really think that Chelsea getting drawn against Barca is coincedence??The powers that be DONT WANT CHELSEA IN THEIR COMPANY as they would replace one of them,leaving a club like Arsenal for instance feeding on the scraps like our once great club finds itself doing.if you think the likes of Dein are going to allow that to happen you are seriously mistaken....Finally i will say that if you stop using such a dictorial tone when you answer posts then i for one will feel much better & im sure others feel this way too,we are all Yids afterall!!No offence fella,lets maybe start again.....Cheers Chalky........

therecklessone

Couple of things Chalky...

If you don't like the tone of my posts you've a couple of options. One is to avoid the board altogether, and while I'd respect your choice I'd prefer you didn't do that. This forum is not mine, its ours.

Another is to put me on your ignore list, which will filter out any of my posts so you don't have to read them at all. Again, I'll respect your choice if thats the one you make.

I won't be changing the way I express myself on here.

Now there's a lot in your last post I could reply to, but I can't be ar*ed right now so I'll limit it to this:

chalky76 wrote:

Your negativity towards THFC Euro campaign is startling,are you in the Martin out brigade?

Seriously, have you read anything else I've posted on the forum? Pleaee don't question my support for Spurs, when I see you in Bolton of a freezing cold Monday night for another defeat courtesy of a dodgy linesman, or booking flights to Leverkusen (along with Dublin Spur) despite us having no chance of getting a ticket, then you'll have the right to question my loyalty. Until then...

Kold

Group could be easier as said but I still don't think we should accept any loss.

el diablo

a couple of scary fixtures there. (B. Leverkusen & Besiktas away) but surely we'll qualify......:rolleyes:

WhiteWashMan

chalky76 wrote:

But when your spoken to like a school teacher does to a 10yr old young fella its not good at all.......if you want to dictate to people then get a job in the press,anyone can sit for hours behind a screen & arm themselves with stats......Your negativity towards THFC Euro campaign is startling,are you in the Martin out brigade?If you think Leverkuson are a top draw outfit then thats up to you......As i have allready stated the Bunderliga leaders Hertha Berlin were dumped out of Europe a fortnight ago by some 2bob outfit(im sure your know who!) which suggests the German league at this moment in time to be poor so i dont adhear to your argument,just as i dont your assumption that the likes of Dinamo Bucharest(2 team lge with the military run Steaue) & Beskitas(allways playing catch up to galatasary/fernabache in a poor/corrupt lge) are on a par with 2006THFC,let alone rightly above us in seedings...........Your failure to understand that G14 have implemented the 8 team drop out for personal gain doesnt do you any favours if you want taking seriously as a football pundit,they have been lining their pockets/looking after their own clubs intrests since they dreamed up the money spinning group stages.....As i have also previously stated Juventus & Ac Milan are founder members of this legalised mafia & still continue to dictate operations with such integral members as David Dein the Gooner chairman who gave Ericssonn £120000 a week on a contract until 2010 just to keep the genuis that is Arsene Wenger at HIS club when his fellow FA board members wanted him in charge of England on considerably less money............Just like the gap between rich in Blackrock & the poor in Ballymun gets wider apart G14 have been doing this to football for close on a decade,does anyone really think that Chelsea getting drawn against Barca is coincedence??The powers that be DONT WANT CHELSEA IN THEIR COMPANY as they would replace one of them,leaving a club like Arsenal for instance feeding on the scraps like our once great club finds itself doing.if you think the likes of Dein are going to allow that to happen you are seriously mistaken....Finally i will say that if you stop using such a dictorial tone when you answer posts then i for one will feel much better & im sure others feel this way too,we are all Yids afterall!!No offence fella,lets maybe start again.....Cheers Chalky........

do me a favour, use the entre key will you.
it will make what you have to say a lot easier to read.

chalky76

therecklessone wrote:

No, finishing 5th in the PL is not good enough basis for being seeded. You see, there are plenty of other sides in the competition who are regular competitors in Europe, while we were mid-table at best under Pleat/Hoddle/Graham/Gross/Francis etc. Our history in the tournament means nothing, nor should it. If Forest were to rise to the top of the English game again (unlikely, I know) would you say they should be seeded because they've won two European Cups under Clough? Frankly, that is a nonsense suggestion.



That depends. Are we going to be permanent fixtures in European competition for the next few years? Chelsea will be a top seed in the CL next year or the year after, as their continuing participation yields them a higher coefficient every year. That is how things should be.



Have they lost at home (like we have)? They've beaten 5th placed Schalke and 6th placed Aachen at home, and lost to 3rd placed Bremen and 9th placed Frankfurt away from home. Their two draws were at home to 15th placed Wolfsburg and 17th placed Hannover. They currently lie 8th in the Bundesliega, not 12th, and have scored 10 goals in return for the 8 conceeded (we've scored 4, conceeding 9). Thats a better record than ours on every single count.

While we're on the subject of history, I might add they've reached the CL final in 2002, and won a Uefa Cup in 1988, far better returns than we've achieved in the same period, wouldn't you agree?

League form should have no bearing on UEFA seeding, but if it did I'm sure you'd agree that Dinamo Bucharest with 10 wins in 10 in the Romanian league would be top seeds...

They were brutal,just as i said they would be,just like Brugge & Beskitas were & just like Dinamo Bucharest will be on the 14th December at WHL.Other than Seville there is nobody to worry about in this Competition & actually hope Barcalona & Arsenil enter via the 8 Champion Lge drop out places to spice everything up a bit.The seedings were in hindsight a joke & comparing 2nd or 3rd place in the Turkish/Romanian lge etc to a side that finishes 5th in the English Premiership(should of been 4th) an even bigger joke.:D

therecklessone

chalky76 wrote:

The seedings were in hindsight a joke & comparing 2nd or 3rd place in the Turkish/Romanian lge etc to a side that finishes 5th in the English Premiership(should of been 4th) an even bigger joke.:D

Fella, fair play for calling it how you did, but would you have been back to acknowledge me if you'd been wrong? Something tells me you wouldn't, you ain't been too interested in commenting when we've been losing to Reading and drawing with Watford.

You'll be happy to know our coefficient is shooting up with our 100% record so far this campaign, but I fairly certain that will be of little comfort to us in May if our league form hasn't improved and we don't qualify for Europe again (cups aside)

el diablo

happy with our progress so far in the UEFA Cup. and 2 good wins away from home.

hopefully our league form will continue to improve too...

chalky76

I didnt bother coming back because i was being ridiculed when clearly i knew what i was on about & was astounded by your negativity towards the team"s potential.People started panicking because we didnt get off to a flyer but i have been going reguarly to WHL(just like you) since 1984 & have seen some woeful sides mascarading as THFC players but can clearly see that this side that is being developed is better than anything Spurs have seen in those 22 years.The absence of King at the start was a huge blow,as was Lennon needing an op & admittedly we were all slightly concerned about Berbatov being another Rebrov/Postiga but he along with Keanealdo & Defoe have woken up at last.The The likes of Ekotto,Zakora & Chimbonda understandably needed a few games to find their feet in a new enviroment & the Hansen/Lawro type comments like Zakora needs a year to settle have been rammed back down their throats.We have WORLD CLASS players for the first time in donkeys years,please dont be under any illusion that we dont.Lennon,Berbatov,King,Robbo,Chimbonda,Zakora & Keane are top drawer operators at the top of their profession........Meanwhile Dawson,Huddlestone,Ekotto have great potential & like everyone else is young,still learning & only going to get better which really excites me.The days of pulling our hair out at dross that wasnt good enough to play for such a fine footballing institution are long gone(well nearly,theres still 1 or 2 ropey goods Lee etc),no more do we have to witness rubbishy players like Austin/Vega/Sinton etc drag our club into the gutter with the West Ham"s of this world.......I believe 100% that within 12 months we will be serious Title contenders to Manchester United & Chelsea......The demise of Liverpool & Arsenil is happening before our very eyes,both are great clubs but neither have great sides & in truth are both 1 man outfits.ITS OUR TIME NOW!!;)

kinaldo

chalky76 wrote:

I didnt bother coming back because i was being ridiculed when clearly i knew what i was on about & was astounded by your negativity towards the team"s potential.People started panicking because we didnt get off to a flyer but i have been going reguarly to WHL(just like you) since 1984 & have seen some woeful sides mascarading as THFC players but can clearly see that this side that is being developed is better than anything Spurs have seen in those 22 years.The absence of King at the start was a huge blow,as was Lennon needing an op & admittedly we were all slightly concerned about Berbatov being another Rebrov/Postiga but he along with Keanealdo & Defoe have woken up at last.The The likes of Ekotto,Zakora & Chimbonda understandably needed a few games to find their feet in a new enviroment & the Hansen/Lawro type comments like Zakora needs a year to settle have been rammed back down their throats.We have WORLD CLASS players for the first time in donkeys years,please dont be under any illusion that we dont.Lennon,Berbatov,King,Robbo,Chimbonda,Zakora & Keane are top drawer operators at the top of their profession........Meanwhile Dawson,Huddlestone,Ekotto have great potential & like everyone else is young,still learning & only going to get better which really excites me.The days of pulling our hair out at dross that wasnt good enough to play for such a fine footballing institution are long gone(well nearly,theres still 1 or 2 ropey goods Lee etc),no more do we have to witness rubbishy players like Austin/Vega/Sinton etc drag our club into the gutter with the West Ham"s of this world.......I believe 100% that within 12 months we will be serious Title contenders to Manchester United & Chelsea......The demise of Liverpool & Arsenil is happening before our very eyes,both are great clubs but neither have great sides & in truth are both 1 man outfits.ITS OUR TIME NOW!!;)

WhiteWashMan wrote:

do me a favour, use the entre key will you.
it will make what you have to say a lot easier to read

.

Dublin Spur

chalky76 wrote:

I didnt bother coming back because i was being ridiculed when clearly i knew what i was on about & was astounded by your negativity towards the team"s potential.People started panicking because we didnt get off to a flyer but i have been going reguarly to WHL(just like you) since 1984 & have seen some woeful sides mascarading as THFC players but can clearly see that this side that is being developed is better than anything Spurs have seen in those 22 years.The absence of King at the start was a huge blow,as was Lennon needing an op & admittedly we were all slightly concerned about Berbatov being another Rebrov/Postiga but he along with Keanealdo & Defoe have woken up at last.The The likes of Ekotto,Zakora & Chimbonda understandably needed a few games to find their feet in a new enviroment & the Hansen/Lawro type comments like Zakora needs a year to settle have been rammed back down their throats.We have WORLD CLASS players for the first time in donkeys years,please dont be under any illusion that we dont.Lennon,Berbatov,King,Robbo,Chimbonda,Zakora & Keane are top drawer operators at the top of their profession........Meanwhile Dawson,Huddlestone,Ekotto have great potential & like everyone else is young,still learning & only going to get better which really excites me.The days of pulling our hair out at dross that wasnt good enough to play for such a fine footballing institution are long gone(well nearly,theres still 1 or 2 ropey goods Lee etc),no more do we have to witness rubbishy players like Austin/Vega/Sinton etc drag our club into the gutter with the West Ham"s of this world.......I believe 100% that within 12 months we will be serious Title contenders to Manchester United & Chelsea......The demise of Liverpool & Arsenil is happening before our very eyes,both are great clubs but neither have great sides & in truth are both 1 man outfits.ITS OUR TIME NOW!!;)

That's the spirit,

don't know about challenging for the title next year, but we're definately going in the right direction.

el diablo

kinaldo wrote:

.

you're siggy is a bit sad. celebrating a 7-1 over Spurs that happened at least 10 years ago...

kinaldo

el diablo wrote:

you're siggy is a bit sad. celebrating a 7-1 over Spurs that happened at least 10 years ago...

You thought the Man Utd 5-0 one was hilarious too. It's not quite 10 years yet so I think you still need to be reminded - it stays.

therecklessone

Fellas, back on topic please.

el diablo

kinaldo wrote:

You thought the Man Utd 5-0 one was hilarious too. It's not quite 10 years yet so I think you still need to be reminded - it stays.

ok, no worries. I enjoyed the Keegan days (except when they beat Spurs).

ok, now I'm back on topic.....;)

I wonder who'll join the UEFA Cup from the Champions League groups....:eek:

therecklessone

el diablo wrote:

I wonder who'll join the UEFA Cup from the Champions League groups....:eek:

Current standings

From that, and judging on form/expected results:

Group A - Werder Bremen (possibly Barca, if they fail to beat Bremen at Nou Camp)

Group B - Sporting Lisbon (possibly Spartak Moscow, if they beat Sporting in Lisbon)

Group C - Bordeaux (definitely)

Group D - Shaktar Donetsk (but could be Roma if Shaktar win and Roma lose to Valencia, or Olympiacos if they beat Shaktar)

Group E - Steaua Bucuresti

Group F - Benfica (possibly ManYoo if they lose at home to Benfica, Copenhagen cannot catch Benfica by viryue of their head to head)

Group G - Horrible one to call...if Porto beat Goons in Portugal and Moscow beat Hamburg as expected, Goons finish 3rd...:eek: I'll go out on a limb and say it will be Porto in 3rd place though, failing to win against the Goons.

Group H - Definitely not Milan anyway! Anderlecht could finish 3rd if they beat 2nd place AEK and Lille lose to Milan, but more likely to be one of AEK/Lille.

el diablo

therecklessone wrote:

Current standings

From that, and judging on form/expected results:

Group A - Werder Bremen (possibly Barca, if they fail to beat Bremen at Nou Camp)

Group B - Sporting Lisbon (possibly Spartak Moscow, if they beat Sporting in Lisbon)

Group C - Bordeaux (definitely)

Group D - Shaktar Donetsk (but could be Roma if Shaktar win and Roma lose to Valencia, or Olympiacos if they beat Shaktar)

Group E - Steaua Bucuresti

Group F - Benfica (possibly ManYoo if they lose at home to Benfica, Copenhagen cannot catch Benfica by viryue of their head to head)

Group G - Horrible one to call...if Porto beat Goons in Portugal and Moscow beat Hamburg as expected, Goons finish 3rd...:eek: I'll go out on a limb and say it will be Porto in 3rd place though, failing to win against the Goons.

Group H - Definitely not Milan anyway! Anderlecht could finish 3rd if they beat 2nd place AEK and Lille lose to Milan, but more likely to be one of AEK/Lille.

thanks for that. you've saved me some time..

there's a few big teams in there. it's going to be tough....:rolleyes:

WhiteWashMan

of the teams 'expeceted' to drop, i wouldnt be afraid of any of them.

the only teams i would be afraid of are utd, arsenal, or barca.

Andrew 83

WhiteWashMan wrote:

of the teams 'expeceted' to drop, i wouldnt be afraid of any of them.

the only teams i would be afraid of are utd, arsenal, or barca.

Werder are also a good team.

WhiteWashMan

they may be, but i wouldnt be afraid of them.

therecklessone

Dropouts confirmed:

Bremen
Spartak Moscow
Bordeaux
Shaktar Donetsk
Steuea Bucaresti
Benfica
CSKA Moscow
AEK Athens

Bremen the "dangerous" side of those 8, but a couple of inhospitable places to visit in a cold February.

Robxxx7

The Russian teams are never easy on home soil .... but all in all it could have been alot worse, and aslong as we finish top of our group then we won't have to play them yet

Andrew 83

Robxxx7 wrote:

The Russian teams are never easy on home soil .... but all in all it could have been alot worse, and aslong as we finish top of our group then we won't have to play them yet

Agreed