Murder Machine still grinding or not?

luckat

On January 1 1916 Pádraig Pearse sat in his school, St Enda's, and wrote:

"The modern child is coming to regard his teacher as an official paid by the State to render him certain services; services which it is in his interest to avail of, since by doing so he will increase his earning capacity later on; but services the rendering and acceptance of which no more imply a sacred relationship than do the rendering and acceptance of the services of a dentist or a chiropodist. There is thus coming about a complete reversal of the relative positions of master and disciple, a tendency which is increased by every statute that is placed on the statute book, by every rule that is added to the education code of modern countries."

(http://www.ucc.ie:8080/cocoon/celt/E900007-001)

Has Pearse's model of a Montessori education system in Ireland - a system that evokes and fosters the talents of the individual child, rather than turning out obedient cogs for the machine - come to be in the Ireland of 2006?

Trotter

I think there was a time when the education system in Ireland did waiver away from the ideals as set down by Pearce. However, the introduction of the new primary school curriculum, along with the improvement in numbers and new blood in the teaching profession is going to pay dividends. We're giving the individual child a lot more attention now than maybe was done 10, 20 or 30 years ago.

I think (and I can really only speak from a primary perspective here) that trainee teachers are being taught in a way that shows they must encourage the development of the child in a very wholistic way, not just to spew out skills as such.

Secondary schools are very results driven but thats simply because of the exam system we have in this country. The sooner the children coming from primary can go into a newly designed secondary system the better.

In short.. P.P. would be impressed by what we as a teaching profession at primary level, are trying to achieve. I think he would be angry at the secondary "results results results" ethos that is no fault of the teachers, but is a government issue. The whole secondary system needs changing.. the teachers are doing their best.

luckat

Yes, Trotter, it's the secondary system that's most determined to grinding out the obedient workers the State needs. Secondary schooling in Pearse's time, of course, was not State-run but private.

Mind you, I was in a primary school the other day, for the first time in many years, and was disappointed to see that the examples of the children's work on the wall of the classroom I was in (attending a lecture) were identical copies of the same dull story.

Ten children had been set to copy out "The Hairy Toe", and their efforts displayed. Scarcely the inspiration to heroism and the fostering of individual talents that Pearse called for!

Trotter

luckat wrote:

Mind you, I was in a primary school the other day, for the first time in many years, and was disappointed to see that the examples of the children's work on the wall of the classroom I was in (attending a lecture) were identical copies of the same dull story.

Ten children had been set to copy out "The Hairy Toe", and their efforts displayed. Scarcely the inspiration to heroism and the fostering of individual talents that Pearse called for!

Its impossible to tell that that class was dull without seeing the class. They could have been delighted to listen to the story, to make sounds related to the story, to make alternative endings, etc. Many teachers are talented at bringing stories to life and the kids really enjoy them. What went on the wall could have just been some writing practice. I'd prefer them to be writing something based on a story they may have enjoyed than a load of unrelated yet well written words.

luckat

True, true - but I'd prefer to see individual stories told by individual kids, rather than identical work based on a dull model.

Another quote from Pearse's essay:

"I dwell on the importance of the personal element in education. I would have every child not merely a unit in a school attendance, but in some intimate personal way the pupil of a teacher, or, to use more expressive words, the disciple of a master. And here I nowise contradict another position of mine, that the main object in education is to help the child to be his own true and best self.

"What the teacher should bring to his pupil is not a set of ready made opinions, or a stock of cut-and-dry information, but an inspiration and an example; and his main qualification should be, not such an overmastering will as shall impose itself at all hazards upon all weaker wills that come under its influence, but rather so infectious an enthusiasm as shall kindle new enthusiasm.

"The Montessori system, so admirable in many ways, would seem at first sight to attach insufficient importance to the function of the teacher in the schoolroom. But this is not really so.

"True, it would make the spontaneous efforts of the children the main motive power, as against the dominating will of the teacher which is the main motive power in the ordinary schoolroom. But the teacher must be there always to inspire, to foster. If you would realise how true this is, how important the personality of the teacher, even in a Montessori school, try to imagine a Montessori school conducted by the average teacher of your acquaintance, or try to imagine a Montessori school conducted by yourself!"

Trotter

luckat wrote:

Another quote from Pearse's essay:

What are your opinions on the quotes though? You wont see much discussion on this one unless you give us your thoughts on them.

luckat wrote:

True, true - but I'd prefer to see individual stories told by individual kids, rather than identical work based on a dull model.

If a child cant write, you'll never see individual stories on the wall. Its a progression. If it is a display of handwriting, which it sounds like, then it should be all identical. The reason is that the children are practicing their handwriting so that they can progress onto creative writing. You said the story was dull, but without seeing the lesson, you have no way of knowing. I know and work with primary teachers that could bring the most boring story to life so that the kids would be asking to hear it again and again. Basically I mean you cant tell exactly what happened in a lesson from what went onto the wall.

At a young age, creativity comes in the form of class discussions, and drawing pictures etc. A child has to learn to write before they can write creatively. What you saw may well have been a reward for kids that put a lot of effort into their handwriting that day.

They may have written and discussed some great stories too, but if everything went on the wall, nothing would stay there for longer than 10 mins. Putting things on the wall excites the kids like crazy, they love to see ANY work they do displayed.. even if it is just handwriting practice.

Its not on the wall for the benefit of visitors, its a reward thing really, and it lends itself to the classroom environment.

luckat

I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't discuss something without knowing the other person's position on it! Odd!

My position on Montessori - I loved it for the brief time that I was in a Montessori class. The devil pride was my downfall; I revealed that I was able to read and was escorted weeping away from the sandpaper letters, the shaky sand-filled jars, the lace-up and button-up frames, and the softly chiming bells. <sob>

I think that children are individuals, and each one should be inspired to creativity and joy in work.

When I hear Minister Hanafin talking about how mathematics must be improved because the country needs scientists - well, yes, it's true, but I hate the idea of the handle being turned to grind out more skilled workers.

I haven't seen anything - up to and including the drunken revels that greet the achievement of 'points' in the Leaving - that would lead me to think the Murder Machine isn't still well-oiled and sharp.

luckat

So where's all this lively conversation I was promised if I said what I felt, eh? Eh?

Trotter

luckat wrote:

So where's all this lively conversation I was promised if I said what I felt, eh? Eh?

I can only apologise You can bring the horse to water etc..

luckat

True, alas. You can bring a horticulture...

GAA widow

luckat wrote:

Has Pearse's model of a Montessori education system in Ireland - a system that evokes and fosters the talents of the individual child, rather than turning out obedient cogs for the machine - come to be in the Ireland of 2006?

I suppose it's been as successful as it can be when there's 25+ children in a class.

luckat

That's very true, the class sizes do make individual attention difficult. I wonder how many children were in each class in St Enda's and St Ita's. There's a book - Pearse's Patriots by Ellen Sisson - about St Enda's, which probably has those details, but unfortunately when I went to a lecture by her the other evening I'd forgotten to pack my cash, so I couldn't buy it. I'll pounce on it next time I see it.

In her lecture she said that none of the boys had become priests - not one! - and that most of them had gone into public service of one sort or another, as diplomats, teachers, doctors, architects, artists and lawyers.

GAA widow

luckat wrote:

In her lecture she said that none of the boys had become priests - not one! - and that most of them had gone into public service of one sort or another, as diplomats, teachers, doctors, architects, artists and lawyers.

no, they didn't have to become priests or anything....just had parents into cultural nationalism and the Gaelic Revival etc., like the children of "HiCos" today which David McWilliams decscribes in The Pope's Children.

luckat

Interesting point. What are HiCos, please?

GAA widow

luckat wrote:

Interesting point. What are HiCos, please?

"Hibernian Cosmopolitans"
"....you will hear them in cafés in Schull, drinking macchiato and talking about the simple beauty of Cape Clear people. ...Athlough they work in a Cosmopolitan world, their children have their names down for Gaelscoileanna. While they watch the Lions they celebrate hurling like no other sport".

People interested in promoting cultural identity and ideals in their children.

Are you doing a project on "The Murder Machine"?

luckat

No, I'm not even a teacher (though I sometimes teach, and find when I do that it's good fun to get students impassioned about whatever they're doing).