Student Union Fees

STaN

Why do we have to pay.. should we not have the right to not join?

Barry Aldwell

Irish people are cheap. Incredibly cheap. If we didn't have to pay student union fees, then the vast, vast majority wouldn't. The SU would have close to zero funding, and would most likely have to shut down. The college would then rub it's hands together in glee, and proceed to shaft us royally (see ARAM and the various other occurances of them renaming things while quietly closing other things). And then the very people who moaned about their right to not pay would be moaning about how the SU weren't there to tell the college to stop.

peteym

should still have the choice though, some people couldnt care less about the student union

DemonOfTheFall

Well that's that then.

I agree with Barry. Who cares about 8 euro anyway ?

The_Radiator

The 8 euro is to join the USI, the Union of Students of Ireland, a kinda representative body for Irish University and College Students.

The SU is the students union, an organisaton run by students for students.

I think there was a referendum, and all students were invited to vote, whether to affilaite to the USI or not to.

I hope I'm not wrong and confussed.

Nietzschean

as far as i'm aware kev your not.

the TCDSU is funded by the college directly through capitation, so that fee you see has nothing to do with its funding. That goes to USI....

Andrew 83

You can actually request to withdraw your USI membership and get the money back if you want. Then again if you ever need their services it won't be avilable to you, plus you'll be be free-riding anything USI's won over the years

STaN

It wasn't an attack . I was just wondering if there was a choice as looking at the conditions of registration there did not seem to be.

Personally I don't like the idea of unions but thats for another day.

xebec

At registration you are required to pay the €8 USI fee, as mentioned above this was due to a referendum held a few years ago which meant that all students have to pay it.

TCDSU get a nice chunk of that registration fee to help them cover their costs for the year as well as their other sources of funding.

STaN wrote:

Personally I don't like the idea of unions but thats for another day.

Why wait? Please inform us!

Personally, I feel that Unions are very necessary, particularly in the situation of a University where very often the students arguments could be ignored or forgotten without the fulltime Union working for them. In TCD it also provides a very important support network - but it only becomes important when you need it!

Dave3x

At first, I also believed that paying for the SU was a waste of money. Especially given the poor standard of class reps (imho). But then I actually needed something from the Executive Officers (note capital letters)- and I got exactly what I needed, really quickly, in a professional way. They really do do a lot, it's just no-one notices it until they need something.

That's my €0.02.

xeduCat

Andrew 83 wrote:

You can actually request to withdraw your USI membership and get the money back if you want. Then again if you ever need their services it won't be avilable to you, plus you'll be be free-riding anything USI's won over the years

Sorry to get all technical, but you actually can't - individuals can't join or unjoin USI, only organisations (who pay a fee based on their size). The amount collected by Trinity (Fees Office) under the levy is passed to the SU, and from that the SU pays the USI bill (which is related to student numbers, not levy income) and other things.

So if 100 students don't pay the levy, for example, that does not mean that TCDSU pays USI less. The amount stays the same.

xebec

xebec wrote:

TCDSU get a nice chunk of that registration fee to help them cover their costs for the year as well as their other sources of funding.

It was around 300,000 euro last year I believe - lower than CSC & DUCAC by around 20,000 a piece if my memory serves me.

Disclaimer: I was previously involved in the SU.

Boston

Dave3x wrote:

At first, I also believed that paying for the SU was a waste of money. Especially given the poor standard of class reps (imho).

Nothing stoping you becoming a class rep.

Boston

xebec wrote:

which meant that all students have to pay it.

You can refuse to pay it. The internet payment system doesn't allow you to, but if you pay by giro or get a grant, there's no problem with not paying it. At registration they don't care.

Barry Aldwell

xeduCat wrote:

Sorry to get all technical, but you actually can't - individuals can't join or unjoin USI, only organisations (who pay a fee based on their size). The amount collected by Trinity (Fees Office) under the levy is passed to the SU, and from that the SU pays the USI bill (which is related to student numbers, not levy income) and other things.

So if 100 students don't pay the levy, for example, that does not mean that TCDSU pays USI less. The amount stays the same.

In other words, by not paying all you're making the SU do is to pay for you.

xebec

Barry Aldwell wrote:

In other words, by not paying all you're making the SU do is to pay for you.

Yeah, so you're getting the services of USI without paying for it and reducing the amount of money that TCDSU gets to support students. OK, it's only €8, but every little makes a difference.

Dave3x

LiouVille wrote:

Nothing stoping you becoming a class rep.

Pride.

No, seriously, I just don't have the time. Being a rep should involve a little commitment, and it seems like a lot of people aren't aware of this when they take on the job. Dónal did a good job last year when he issued some warnings (which was how bad it had got) about not going to council meetings.

I'm not bashing the good reps. Just the bad ones.

xebec

Dave3x wrote:

I'm not bashing the good reps. Just the bad ones.

I've the same opinion as LiouVille, instead of bashing any of the reps give it a go yourself. Of course it requires a commitment but it doesn't take that much time and you really get out of it what you put in!

I was involved with Dónal and the reps last year and the warnings were necessary, it was getting really frustrating turning up to Council and it not being on because it didn't reach a quorum (and I wasn't even part of the Council!).

Anyone who is considering becoming a rep this year should take the fact that Council is a duty, not a right, into their decision.

I still don't appreciate any rep bashing, at least they're giving it a go. If it doesn't work out it's up to someone else in the class to step up and do the job and hopefully it'll work for them!

Boston

xebec wrote:

Yeah, so you're getting the services of USI without paying for it and reducing the amount of money that TCDSU gets to support students. OK, it's only €8, but every little makes a difference.

And what services are those then? What has the USI done exactly? What does the USI do exactly? Bunch of kids playing politician.

Dave3x. Council meeting you say. I plan to be a class rep this year, I plan never to go to council meetings, I plan never to organise piss up's or promote SU events. I do see myself spending allot of time chasing down lectures, and working within my departments.

How can you respect something like coucil when people treat it like an excuse to get pissed. Screw that, times to valuable.

Nietzschean

iirc don't class reps have to goto council?

Boston

Yes

Crash

Yes they do, and should. Simple fact is that council is important as you are the vote for the class that you represent. So while you are doing great things for them in purely departmental matters, when it comes to larger issues (i.e. cross faculty issues) they are completely underrepresented, causing a problem).

as for the drinking issue, i'm sure that was aimed at me partly :P you can say that all you want but I'd hope you'd also notice I did a lot of work in the union over the year and spoke up on a lot of things i felt were wrong or right. ah well.

Boston

&#231 wrote: »

Yes they do, and should. Simple fact is that council is important as you are the vote for the class that you represent. So while you are doing great things for them in purely departmental matters, when it comes to larger issues (i.e. cross faculty issues) they are completely underrepresented, causing a problem).

When I go for it, I'll make my lack of interest in attending coucil well know in advance. I seriously doubt they will care. Beside shane will still be a hack.

as for the drinking issue, i'm sure that was aimed at me partly :P you can say that all you want but I'd hope you'd also notice I did a lot of work in the union over the year and spoke up on a lot of things i felt were wrong or right. ah well.

You didn't invent drinking at council. You realise things like that seriously undermine confidence in the SU? I've no idea how regularly it happens, but it's not the type of thing Id waste my time with.

Danger Bob

Liouville wrote:

I plan to be a class rep this year, I plan never to go to council meetings, I plan never to organise piss up's or promote SU events. I do see myself spending allot of time chasing down lectures, and working within my departments. When I go for it, I'll make my lack of interest in attending coucil well know in advance.

If that's the case then, while they may not care, they will be electing a new rep at Christmas.

Class Rep Nomination Form wrote:

Class reps are responsible for representing their classes at Students’ Union meetings, to their department/school/faculty, for communicating Students’ Union policies to their classes, and for helping individual students and dealing with their lecturers.... Class reps who don’t attend meetings (including Council) without giving reasons can be removed from their positions.

Before running for class rep, you have to sign up to do the very things that you've said you won't do. As such, you would have to be removed if it should become clear that you're unwilling to do.

Being a class rep is a whole package. While course issues are understandable, ideological ones aren't. If you don't like the idea of being a class rep, in all its facets, don't run. It's a con on your classmates if you run for a position if you intend not to fulfil the tasks associated with the position. Sorry if I sound like a bit of a bollocks here but I've sat through two years of where there have been numerous issues with getting reps to actually take part. Dónal's warnings this year were spot on and I'll be hoping that those reps who refuse to participate at all without good reason in the first term will have their positions refilled at the beginning of the second term. It's the only way that the system can work.

Boston

Danger Bob wrote:

If that's the case then, while they may not care, they will be electing a new rep at Christmas.

Sure, I don't mind running twice.

Before running for class rep, you have to sign up to do the very things that you've said you won't do. As such, you would have to be removed if it should become clear that you're unwilling to do.

Being a class rep is a whole package. While course issues are understandable, ideological ones aren't. If you don't like the idea of being a class rep, in all its facets, don't run. It's a con on your classmates if you run for a position if you intend not to fulfil the tasks associated with the position.

No offense, but where does it say the dutties of a class rep are to listen to someone talk aload of drunken bull****. I refuse to do that, you call that an Idelogical different, I call it having some self respect.

without good reason in the first term will have their positions refilled at the beginning of the second term. It's the only way that the system can work.

I've given you my reasons. How about you take some responsibility for how council has been conducted in the past. If I think it's a joke, it's only because it been allowed to turn into one.

Andrew 83

I went to pretty much every council over the last 3 years and the only people I ever saw drinking at it was the group last year. It's only been a tiny minority. How many councils have you been to and over how many years? You sound ill-informed.

Boston

Andrew 83 wrote:

I went to pretty much every council over the last 3 years and the only people I ever saw drinking at it was the group last year. It's only been a tiny minority. How many councils have you been to and over how many years? You sound ill-informed.

I've never been to a coucil meating. Not like it matters since you yourself admitt that it happens. Heres an idea, instead of making excuses for it, why don't you do something about it. Ps It's been happening for as long as I've been in college.

Amazing as it sounds, in some Unions, council meetings go off without people knocking back cans.

Come on its a joke, the fact that you sit there and try to defend the practice makes it even more of a joke. It's only a few, so what? It's ok then?

xebec

LiouVille wrote:

I've never been to a coucil meating.

Says it all really...

LiouVille wrote:

Come on its a joke, the fact that you sit there and try to defend the practice makes it even more of a joke. It's only a few, so what? It's ok then?

I haven't heard anyone condone it, if you really have a problem with it come along to a council meeting and voice your opinion there.

Uninformed arguments really annoy me.

Boston

xebec wrote:

Says it all really...

You deny it happens.

I haven't heard anyone condone it, if you really have a problem with it come to council and voice your opinion there.

Making excuses for it, same thing.

Uninformed arguments really annoy me.

I'm very well informed. I can name names and dates if you would like. I can even name proposals put forward by people pissed. I can also dig up posts by people on this forum talking about how wasted they got at council. So I guess you're the uniformed one.

Take some responsibility for your own failures.

Andrew 83

LiouVille wrote:

I've never been to a coucil meating. Not like it matters since you yourself admitt that it happens. Heres an idea, instead of making excuses for it, why don't you do something about it. Ps It's been happening for as long as I've been in college.

Amazing as it sounds, in some Unions, council meetings go off without people knocking back cans.

Come on its a joke, the fact that you sit there and try to defend the practice makes it even more of a joke. It's only a few, so what? It's ok then?

So you're sitting here insisting you're not going to do your job by refusing to go to councils because of impressions of them in your head? That's ridiculous.

As I say almost every council meeting I've ever been to no one was drinking. I was disgusted when people did and said as much to the people involved.

Boston

Andrew 83 wrote:

So you're sitting here insisting you're not going to do your job by refusing to go to councils because of impressions of them in your head? That's ridiculous.

I'm going to do far more then most Reps do.

As I say almost every council meeting I've ever been to no one was drinking. I was disgusted when people did and said as much to the people involved.

Yea sure.

Dave3x

LiouVille wrote:

Dave3x. Council meeting you say. I plan to be a class rep this year, I plan never to go to council meetings, I plan never to organise piss up's or promote SU events. I do see myself spending allot of time chasing down lectures, and working within my departments.

How can you respect something like coucil when people treat it like an excuse to get pissed. Screw that, times to valuable.

Case in point. I happen to LIKE (one of) my rep(s) from last year. Just the fact that it's often seen as more of a social club than a political organisation. It is not the reps job to get pissed. Fair enough if they do, so long as they DO do their job.

Am I really being so unfair? Is it wrong to criticise the wasters who do nothing while applauding the hard-working SU members?

Boston

Having slept on this, I've decided it would be sensible to go to at least some council meetings if elected class rep. However, at the first sign of proceding being brought into distrepute I'll jack it in.

LiouVille

LiouVille wrote:

However, at the first sign of proceding being brought into distrepute I'll jack it in.

Before that happens you should bring it up at Council about whether or not it is a farce. If people don't talk, it's difficult to get feedback...