Divorce question...

hotbot

Hi folks, not sure if this is the right place for this query but thought I'd post it & see what comes out the far side.
I've been legally seperated (no children or contest issues) from my ex since 6/04 which in itself isn't the issue at hand. The problem lies in the fact that I'm here in Ireland while she is in US.
I am an Irish citizen & resident while she is a US citizen & resident. We were married here in Ireland which obliges us to abide by Irish Divorce Legislation. We are both happily moving on & speak to each other quite regularly but my question is this, is there any way, apart from US divorce proceedings (apparently recognised here in Ireland), of expediting or circumventing (legally, of course) the minimum 4 yr seperation requirement? Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Our man in Havana

NOT A LEGAL OPINION. Not to be construed as legal advice.

There will be no problem using the US system provided her self stays in the US. Provided she is domillcilled there will be no problems.

Gobán Saor

Well now, this forum is not for asking or giving legal advice so you might want to edit your post to discuss a more, um, hypothetical scenario;)

Speaking hypothetically then, if a separated party were to instruct a solicitor that they were in fact living apart for 4 of the previous 5 years, then the solicitor would draft a civil bill and appropriate affadavit to that effect. If the other party does not contradict this in affadavit or testimony, then a court is unlikely to look beyond this, especially if there are no contentious custody or financial arrangements.

This is perjury of course and solicitors will not actively suggest this or collude with it. However, they are happy enough to accept a level of vagueness on the clients part regarding the precise nature and dates of the living apart arrangements.

Our man in Havana

Would a court not want proof?

Gobán Saor

No. Proof will only arise if the facts are contested. Well ok, in theory the court could look beyong the affadavits but realistically this doesnt happen particularly in straightforward cases.

Stirling

NOT A LEGAL OPINION!

Hypothetically speaking again there is another way that you could meet the living apart requirement without falsifying an affidavit in the manner suggested. Even though the legal seperation was only granted comparatively recently it is possible to claim that due to the nature of the relationship that even though you may have been dwelling under the one roof you were in effect living seperate lives which is sufficient to describe you as "living apart" even though it is not so in the physical sense of the world.

Our man in Havana

Stirling wrote:

NOT A LEGAL OPINION!

Hypothetically speaking again there is another way that you could meet the living apart requirement without falsifying an affidavit in the manner suggested. Even though the legal seperation was only granted comparatively recently it is possible to claim that due to the nature of the relationship that even though you may have been dwelling under the one roof you were in effect living seperate lives which is sufficient to describe you as "living apart" even though it is not so in the physical sense of the world.

I suspect that it would be very difficult to prove.

Gobán Saor

The courts have interpreted "living apart" to mean living as two separate households, ie not sharing regular meals, shopping, laundry etc. Obviously the court would expect marital relations to have ceased also. If the claim was contested then the partner making the living apart claim would have to put the precise living arrangements on affadavit and could expect a fairly rigorous cross-examination which would probably expose any inconsistencies.

If the claim was not contested, my previous comments apply.

sh_o

Gob&#225 wrote: »

Speaking hypothetically then, if a separated party were to instruct a solicitor that they were in fact living apart for 4 of the previous 5 years, then the solicitor would draft a civil bill and appropriate affadavit to that effect. If the other party does not contradict this in affadavit or testimony, then a court is unlikely to look beyond this, especially if there are no contentious custody or financial arrangements.

This is perjury of course and solicitors will not actively suggest this or collude with it. However, they are happy enough to accept a level of vagueness on the clients part regarding the precise nature and dates of the living apart arrangements.

It is extremely unwise to leave out certain details when you instruct your solicitor. It is even more unwise to swear an affidavit to something that you do not believe or that is false or that you would have difficulty standing over in the event of there being a dispute - perjury or misleading the court is a serious matter and your word is your bond.

It sounds as if your ex is domiciled in the US - If you are so in a hurry to put all this behind you, get divorced in the US and have the divorce recognised here.

Our man in Havana

Often is the problem in getting such a divorce recongised here. It is a slow time consuming process and unless both sides are still on speaking terms impossible to go thru. They request birth certs for the estranged spouse, unless you are on reasonable terms you won't be able to get them.

gar32

Hoping this will find its way to someone who can help or point me in right direction. I married 4 years ago & am looking for a divorce but in Spain. I know that I can get it quicker there but my wife needs to apply for it. She is willing to get divorced but want me to do the paper work etc. Is there anyone in Ireland that could help or would I have to get help in Spain? Sperated for 2 years now & would have too wait 2 more years for divorce here in Ireland. Willing to travel if need & cost is no issue. Many Thanks

Gar32

dermot_sheehan

gar32 wrote:

Hoping this will find its way to someone who can help or point me in right direction. I married 4 years ago & am looking for a divorce but in Spain. I know that I can get it quicker there but my wife needs to apply for it. She is willing to get divorced but want me to do the paper work etc. Is there anyone in Ireland that could help or would I have to get help in Spain? Sperated for 2 years now & would have too wait 2 more years for divorce here in Ireland. Willing to travel if need & cost is no issue. Many Thanks

Gar32

Within the European Union, you can file for divorce in a member state if you are habitualy resident there (residence for more then a year if not a national of that state). This is due to the Brussels II regulation http://ec.europa.eu/justice_home/doc_centre/civil/doc/parental_resp_ec_vdm_en.pdf

A Spanish divorce would thus be recognised in Ireland if you were resident there for more then a year.


Outside the EU, one of the parties to the marriage must be domiciled in the state granting the divorce.

Victor

Gob&#225 wrote: »

Well now, this forum is not for asking or giving legal advice so you might want to edit your post to discuss a more, um, hypothetical scenario;)

Speaking hypothetically then, if a separated party were to instruct a solicitor that they were in fact living apart for 4 of the previous 5 years, then the solicitor would draft a civil bill and appropriate affadavit to that effect. If the other party does not contradict this in affadavit or testimony, then a court is unlikely to look beyond this, especially if there are no contentious custody or financial arrangements.

This is perjury of course and solicitors will not actively suggest this or collude with it. However, they are happy enough to accept a level of vagueness on the clients part regarding the precise nature and dates of the living apart arrangements.

Hypotheticly, a judge might see that the marriage started in June 2004 and it is now only 2.5 years later.

Bond-007 wrote:

They request birth certs for the estranged spouse, unless you are on reasonable terms you won't be able to get them.

Birth certs are usually matters of public record.

gar32

ok seems my wife & I live in Ireland & will have to go with that ruling is there any sort cut to the 4 year waiting list? Say like an agreement with wife to say we are living seperate for a longer time. maybe prove of living in Spain from my wife for the last year maybe?? Always loop holes any one have one for me??

thanks Regards Gary.

Our man in Havana

So long as she agrees with your story there will be no trouble.

Gobán Saor

Victor wrote:

Hypotheticly, a judge might see that the marriage started in June 2004 and it is now only 2.5 years later.

That's not what the man said. He's been separated since June 04, not married since June 04.

Victor

Gob&#225 wrote: »

That's not what the man said. He's been separated since June 04, not married since June 04.

Apologies. Then he has to wait 1.5 years.

gar32

Just to keep you all updated. I have done the divorce myself and with a ver low cost. If your in agreement with your ex things can be cheap and happy too

Cunsiderthis

Bond-007 wrote: »

Often is the problem in getting such a divorce recongised here. It is a slow time consuming process and unless both sides are still on speaking terms impossible to go thru. They request birth certs for the estranged spouse, unless you are on reasonable terms you won't be able to get them.

I wonder might there be an advantage in getting a foreign divorce, if possible. bearing in mind the peculiar Irish situation where no divorce settlement is actually final. If one is applicable to obtain a divorce in another country where divorce is final, and where the spouse can't come back in the future and ask for it to be re-examined, might that be a point in favour of a foreign divorce?

Our man in Havana

There are indeed merits in a foreign divorce. Namely the finality.

As I pointed out it is getting the Irish state to recognise it as a legitimate divorce is the issue.

gar32

Could I get a 2nd divorce in Spain? Would it be better or wort it? Don't think she will come a knocking but better safe then sorry