Traffic Fines Abroad

Virus'92

Hi,

I'm driving now over 1 year in holland and Germany with my Irish registered car, so far no problems at all the Police in Holland and Germany don't even look at the discs .

i now heard that from March 2007 the new European traffic tickets treaty comes into action, sofar i've been flashed by a couple of speedcamera's but never received a ticket back home in IRL, does anyone know if Ireland is joining the EU treaty?

thanx for your answers.

Alun

Virus'92 wrote:

I'm driving now over 1 year in holland and Germany with my Irish registered car, so far no problems at all the Police in Holland and Germany don't even look at the discs .

Nothing to be proud of, and a case of double standards if the number of threads on here moaning about Eastern Europeans over here doing the same thing are anything to go by. Anyway, depending on where you live and/or work they do check, believe me, and they can be pretty underhand about it. A friend of mine in Holland was done by an undercover customs official who waited outside his house for a whole week, waiting for him to drive his car and then nabbed him.

i now heard that from March 2007 the new European traffic tickets treaty comes into action, sofar i've been flashed by a couple of speedcamera's but never received a ticket back home in IRL, does anyone know if Ireland is joining the EU treaty?

I think they weigh up whether they think the hassle of the paperwork is worth their while. Belgium, Holland and Germany exchange information freely as I have found to my cost on a couple of occasions. Maybe the new legislation will make this process easier, and remove any hurdles to that sort of thing. Also bear in mind that on-the-spot fines are common if you're caught in person rather than by a camera.

EDIT: What about your insurance? Does that cover you for that kind of extended stay abroad?

peasant

Virus'92 wrote:

Hi,

I'm driving now over 1 year in holland and Germany with my Irish registered car, so far no problems at all the Police in Holland and Germany don't even look at the discs .

Probably because they wouldn't have a clue what they're looking at anyway ...totally different setup in Germany (not sure about Holland).

Are you still insured with your Irish insurance? What about a current NCT?

If the answer to those two is "no" ...or "you must be joking", then better hope and pray that you have no accident in Germany (once again no experience with Holland here) because then all of a suddden everybody WILL be very interested indeed ...very, very interested.

Alun

No silly paper discs in Holland either, it's all computerized and based on the car registration number. And even though the Dutch police may have a reputation on certain British comedy programs for being a bunch of laid back pot smokers, believe you me if you have an accident and are shown to be not insured, you'd better watch out.

peasant

In Germany, driving without insurance is a criminal offence (even without having an accident).

It carries a hefty fine or a prison sentence.
Fines in Germany are not fixed, but depend on your income. In case you have no steady (declared / taxed) income you automatically go to prison. (up to one year)

Virus'92

My Nct is still valid as well as my insurance every 6 months i'm back in IRL,
only my road tax disc is expired. i am only registered in IRL and not in Germany or Holland so i have had no problems with the dutch customs (Douane) or the German (Zoll) i've seen lots of speed camera's and once and a while a lasergun but i'm not speeding so much.

Greetz

Seth Brundle

Virus'92 wrote:

My Nct is still valid as well as my insurance every 6 months i'm back in IRL,

Does your insurance company know you are abroad and for 6 months at a time? Generally you are allowed head away on holidays but not effectively emigrate! Check your policy!

tc20

Virus, i spent a couple of years blattin thru germany/NL/belgium, great and all as it is, you could be inline as peasant says for hefty fines, and also they have the power to confiscate your car on the spot for certain offences (watch what you carry cross borders ) or its the bus for you matey..
It is cool to see the cops in a 911 tho (NL)

parsi

Strange that any policy I've had only allows me to be outside of Ireland for a total of 30 days. Pray tell where you got yours..

zuutroy

parsi wrote:

Strange that any policy I've had only allows me to be outside of Ireland for a total of 30 days. Pray tell where you got yours..

That used to be the case. AFAIK they're under EU to insure you in other countries. Currently the max they have to insure you for is 91 days out of the full year. Unless you ring them and tell them dates of departure and return, you are only covered third party.
On topic, got a few parking fines in Holland that I never heard of again.

gstonesmx5

recently collected a rental car in germany and while on way back from meeting in france got flashed just over speed limit. so the qusetion is
german reg rental car + speeding fine in france + irish driver = fine on credit card ?

what do you think.

BrayHead

gstonesmx5 ...

I recently got caught by a spped camera in Germany (in a hire car, hired in Germany also). The car hire crowd hit my credit card with an administrative fee for their dealing with the cops and told me to expect a further fine direct from the cops.

Victor

Virus'92 wrote:

i now heard that from March 2007 the new European traffic tickets treaty comes into action, sofar i've been flashed by a couple of speedcamera's but never received a ticket back home in IRL, does anyone know if Ireland is joining the EU treaty?

I think its 7 (maybe 9?) headline offences will be carried from country to country. All are safety related, speeding, dangerous driving etc. not parking tickets.

Virus'92

Well at the moment my situation is this: my parents bought a house in Germany, i can stay with them and at the moment i'm working in Holland.
i got an offer for insurance from the German neighbour he works for Axa germany and is willing to insure my irish reg car for 1000 euro pro year,
is asked him if i had to register my car in germany he said no according to European laws abided in Germany i don't have to import the car as long as i'm not working and living in Germany at the same time. i.e as long as i work in Holland and live in Germany there is no problem with the Zoll (German Customs) axa Germany can insure me thus on irish plates because Ireland is part of the European union. i know a lot of eastern europeans in germany do the same they can still keep ther polish/latvian/lithuanian reg plates and work in Germany. as for the Dutch Customs (Douane) as long as i'm not registered at a Dutch house address there's no need to import the car in Holland.
And if they would follow me undercover they will find out that i don't live in Holland, every weekday i'm driving from Germany in to Holland and at the end of the day back to Germany. i've called the Dutch customs over this and they told me that i don't need to import the car as i'm not registered at a dutch houseaddress. by getting German insurance valid in all of Europe and doing every 2 years the TUV (German NCT) i'm abiding the law. only problem is the road tax disc i have to get a new one every 6 months and go to Ireland for that. one of the Roadtax office people told met that it's outside Ireland no offence to drive without a valid tax disc just inside ROI.

peasant

As you are living with your parents, *technically* you should also register your residence at the local Ordnungsamt, which in turn would *technically* mean that sooner or later you would have to register your car at the Zulassungsstelle for your Landkreis as well, which in consequence would mean that you would automatically have to pay KFZ-Steuer (the German road tax) as well. (that whole car reg thing alone is going to cost you a weeks worth of red tape hassle:eek: )
It would also mean that you get registered for income tax, social security and all that stuff.

As you are straddling borders in your work, you're making things very complicated and I have to say I'm not up on latest regulations and red tape.

Are you paying income tax at all? What about health insurance and all that stuff?
Which country ...if any... are paying that in?

The whole thing is a bloody mess really ...you might get away with it for a while without any problems at all ...on the other hand, if things go badly wrong, you might find yourself pursued by three different governements for tax evasion and three milliion other infringements

If you intend doing this for the longer term future, I would really suggest that you talk to people in the know and get "by the book legal" with everything in one country.

Virus'92

I'm paying income tax in The Netherlands, i also pay part of my wages into the dutch social systems as wel as the a.o.w (elderly state pension funds)
i also have a dutch health insurance. i checked it all with the Dutch state offices and they see no problems in this construction. so the Dutch make no problems about it ( ihold a Dutch passport). and the Germans i have to ask.
my German neighbour told me that under European law i don't have to register in a country except when i'm longer there than 3 months at a time.
but as im travelling every weekday to Holland and at the end of the day back to germany i'm not 3 months at a time at one place.

Alun

Virus'92 wrote:

I'm paying income tax in The Netherlands, i also pay part of my wages into the dutch social systems as wel as the a.o.w (elderly state pension funds)
i also have a dutch health insurance. i checked it all with the Dutch state offices and they see no problems in this construction. so the Dutch make no problems about it ( ihold a Dutch passport). and the Germans i have to ask.
my German neighbour told me that under European law i don't have to register in a country except when i'm longer there than 3 months at a time.
but as im travelling every weekday to Holland and at the end of the day back to germany i'm not 3 months at a time at one place.

That all sounds very dodgy indeed to me. I'd go and ask someone a bit more reliable than your next door neighbour about it if I were you, such as a tax consultant.

In order to pay Dutch income tax, aow, aww, zkw etc. you must have a Dutch "SoFi nummmer" (social security number), and to have this, as far as I'm aware, you must have a registered address in the Netherlands somewhere, i.e. have registered at your local Gemeentehuis. If not then where the hell are you registered? You have to be considered resident somewhere for tax purposes, whether it's the Netherlands or Germany, you can't just hang around in some weird "limbo" area for ever. And wherever that place is, if you've been there for more than a certain period of time you have to import your vehicle and do everything a local would do in that case.

peasant

I'm by no means an expert on all this beurocratic s*it, but when it comes to residence, where you live is more important than where you work and you live in Germany and I have the slight suspicion that you should actually declare your income to the German authorities (and then maybe get an excemption for you particular circumstances). After one year of living there, both you and your car should certainly be registered in Germany. So your car should also be taxed in Germany ...your income may be a different story.

But I'm the wrong guy to ask and this is the wrong forum also:D

As far as your car and driving is concerned ...lay low, stay insured (somehow and in a way that actually pays out when the worst happens) and NCT/TUEV'd, try not to have an accident or stick out by getting fines/convictions

Being investigated after an accident might open a big fat can of worms for you, bringing all sorts of red tape issues to light that you (and me) are not aware of at this moment.

The one thing I'm pretty sure of though is that you can forget about taxing your car in Ireland ...unless you're driving it there.

Dutch and German police will not be interested whether the tax on a non Dutch or non German car is up to date. Nor will they credit Irish paid tax, should they ever decide that you owe them German or Dutch car tax:D

Virus'92

i hold a dutch sofi number and in Holland i'm registered at an Irish address i also informed the gemeente (local government) about this so that when my dutch passport is checked the Irish address comes up. i will go and ask the German authorities about this but according to the Dutch and irish government there are no problems becaus i go by the rules of the european union. i also informed the irish social welfare that i'm working in Holland and the revenue know as well that i pay my taxes in the Netherlands. so from Irish and dutch sides there are no problems.

peasant

Virus'92 wrote:

i hold a dutch sofi number and in Holland i'm registered at an Irish address i also informed the gemeente (local government) about this so that when my dutch passport is checked the Irish address comes up. i will go and ask the German authorities about this but according to the Dutch and irish government there are no problems becaus i go by the rules of the european union. i also informed the irish social welfare that i'm working in Holland and the revenue know as well that i pay my taxes in the Netherlands. so from Irish and dutch sides there are no problems.

That sounds ok to me ...the sticky bit is the German residency though. You DO actually LIVE in Germany and as far as I know (once again ...ask someone competent!) there is no way around registering yourself and your car in Germany once you live there for a certain period of time.

Be careful though about how and who you ask, I'm not sure about this but I seem to remember that not registering correctly and in time is actually an offence ...so it might not be a good idea to walk into your nearest Ordnungsamt and tell them "Welll ..I've been living here a year, what's the story?" ...It might be wiser to prentend that you are considering moving there, if you know what I mean:D

And deffo speak to that tax consultant (first!!) ...it might work out cheaper for you to rent a place in Holland than (officially) living in Germany and end up paying tax there.

Alun

Well, you don't have to listen to my advice, and as peasant said this isn't really the forum for such a discussion, but speaking as someone who lived and worked in Holland and Germany for a Dutch firm for over 20 years, I'd say you're treading a very dangerous path.

Virus'92

I've found out on several german websites that i only have to register in Germany when i'm being in the country for 24 hours a day and that 3 months straight in a row youre legible to get registered but as i'm now working in Holland. i leave Germany every day and i'm not longer than 48 hours inside Germany, according to the local zoll (customs) website i'm only to register when i'm longer than 3 months straight inside the country. as this is the case i can still use the irish address.

Victor

Alun wrote:

In order to pay Dutch income tax, aow, aww, zkw etc. you must have a Dutch "SoFi nummmer" (social security number), and to have this, as far as I'm aware, you must have a registered address in the Netherlands somewhere, i.e. have registered at your local Gemeentehuis.

There may be the argument that he is a frontier worker, but Ireland doesn't have a frontier with The Netherlands.

unkel

Virus'92 wrote:

I've found out on several german websites that i only have to register in Germany when i'm being in the country for 24 hours a day and that 3 months straight in a row youre legible to get registered but as i'm now working in Holland. i leave Germany every day and i'm not longer than 48 hours inside Germany, according to the local zoll (customs) website i'm only to register when i'm longer than 3 months straight inside the country. as this is the case i can still use the irish address.

Links? Sounds implausible to me but of course I could very well be wrong. Normally one is resident in an EU country if one lives there. Simple as that. You are clearly resident in Germany

Many dutch people live in Belgium or Germany and as such are resident in those countries. The residency is usually a tax / house prices thing...

Virus'92

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alun
In order to pay Dutch income tax, aow, aww, zkw etc. you must have a Dutch "SoFi nummmer" (social security number), and to have this, as far as I'm aware, you must have a registered address in the Netherlands somewhere, i.e. have registered at your local Gemeentehuis.

I have registered with my local (gemeentehuis) city council i'm registered there with my irish address a room that i rent in Ireland. so i have a dutch passport and on it is mentioned my dutch SOFI number. so in Holland i work and pay all my taxes i also have Dutch health insurance they agree and make no problems of a German address on the policy. I abide all the Rules of the European Union. i will no go and try to find out the rules in Germany maybe all the countries (IRL,D,NL) accept the European agreements. but i know many Polish people in Germany and Holaand and Ireland doing the same thing.
i hope i can get a clear answer from the German Authorities. sofar the Irish and Dutch are agreeing with it. thanx for all your advice

Virus'92

Hi all.

I went to the nearest big city and went to the local council (Ordnungsamt) asked them what the rules are when i want to move to Germany.

They explained that in order to register i need to have a contract with a company located in Germany, or Have bought a house or have an official rent agreement. they also explained that i need to stay 180 days or more in Germany without leaving the country to be a resident. as this is not the case
i cant't register in Germany.
As i don't have any of the above it wouldn't be possible.
they also told me about Zweiter Wohnsitz (second address in foreign country)
then you can keep your car on foreign plates.
i'm now thinking of putting up a rental agreement with my parents in order to be allowed to register in Germany.

but I'm not sure if i will stay here longer than a year.
If so i will do the zweiter wohnsitz if i can get it and i will find out more about the rules per country.
Thanx for all your advice .