Tyre Issues & Garage...

boomer_ie

Folks

I have a Ford Focus Estate car that I acquired in February (7th Feb to be exact) and I have noticed that the three original tyres have damage on them, unfortunately one is as a result of kerb walloping but the other two are not, one shows an obvious bulge on the tyre and one has a crack in the tyre. As a result all three need to be replaced.

I spoke to the garage I obtained the car from and they say that it is unlikely that they will replace them under warranty as the damage is from "normal wear and tear" (24k on the clock). Surely the tyres should have lasted longer, there is a threadwear indicator figure of 280 on them so surely they should be long life tyres? They are 17" tyres btw.

Has anyone any experience of this?

They have promised me an answer by Friday (Bloody hell what a delay considering the damage to all three tyres could be classed as dangerous!) I have reluctantly taken the car off the road for all but essential journeys until this is ironed out but I can see myself replacing the tyres myself and asking them to pay the cost of it.

peasant

asking them to pay the cost of it

And what exactly do you dream of when you're actually asleep?

You've had 7 months and 24.000 miles of opportunity to do all manner of unspeakable things to your tyres ...why would anyone buy new ones for you at their expense?

17" tyres (supposedly very low profile ones) might not be the wisest and most durable choice for irish roads anyway ...

boomer_ie

peasant wrote:

You've had 7 months and 24.000 miles of opportunity to do all manner of unspeakable things to your tyres ...why would anyone buy new ones for you at their expense?

I am actually a carefull driver, and the garage has admitted that they should have lasted longer of course they wont put it in writing

peasant wrote:

17" tyres (supposedly very low profile ones) might not be the wisest and most durable choice for irish roads anyway ...

Came as standard with the car not as an option.

peasant

Careful or not ... one of them nasty potholes jumping out at you can kill a tyre even though you might only notice it days / weeks later.

There isn't exactly a shortage of potholes in this country, now is there?

Normally I have zero sympathy for car dealers / manufacturers when it comes to reliability issues and I'd fight as hard as the next man for my rights as a consumer ...but I would say that 24.000 miles on these roads on low profile tyres is pretty good going and wouldn't even dream about asking for my money back.

You *might* have a case if all tyres (not only the ones on the driven axle but all of them) had zero thread left after only 24 k miles (even then 24 k could be considered "normal lifetime")...but cracks and bulges are indicative of hard bangs (kerb or pothole) and certainly not a design flaw in the tyre.

Alun

Just to be certain what we're talking about here, was this a brand new car, or a second-hand one? If it's new then I'm afraid I agree with peasant that modern tyres don't just develop cracks or bulges all on their own, but need the able assistance of some pretty hard wallops from a pothole or two. If it was second-hand, then I suppose some of the faults could have been at least partly present when you bought it 8 months ago, but then it's a case of caveat emptor, I'm afraid.

Anan1

I'm afraid I'd have to agree with the other posters here - bulges & cracks are indicative of damage incurred while driving. Personally, I'm not a fan of anything much over 15" on our roads, you could consider changing to smaller wheels. On which subject, are the wheels ok?

Alun

Anan1 wrote:

I'm afraid I'd have to agree with the other posters here - bulges & cracks are indicative of damage incurred while driving. Personally, I'm not a fan of anything much over 15" on our roads, you could consider changing to smaller wheels. On which subject, are the wheels ok?

It's not so much a question of the wheel size as the aspect ratio of the tyres (ratio as a percentage of the wall height vs. the width). Personally on Irish roads I wouldn't go any lower than a pretty standard 55.

maidhc

Alun wrote:

It's not so much a question of the wheel size as the aspect ratio of the tyres (ratio as a percentage of the wall height vs. the width). Personally on Irish roads I wouldn't go any lower than a pretty standard 55.

I think Anan's point though is that unless you have a 4x4 having 17" wheels requires very low profile tyres.

I destroyed an alloy with 195/55 R 15 tyres before, and since then will go no lower than 60 on similar sized wheels. I'd love to put 17" wheels on my focus, but I can't see them lasting the winter if I did.

boomer_ie

Alun wrote:

Just to be certain what we're talking about here, was this a brand new car, or a second-hand one? If it's new then I'm afraid I agree with peasant that modern tyres don't just develop cracks or bulges all on their own, but need the able assistance of some pretty hard wallops from a pothole or two. If it was second-hand, then I suppose some of the faults could have been at least partly present when you bought it 8 months ago, but then it's a case of caveat emptor, I'm afraid.

Yes it is a brand new car, its also a car that is not in the habbit of being driven on back roads into potholes 85% of driving is done in the dublin and wicklow area (mostly the M50 and city centre area) with the other 15% on the UK motorway systemback and forth to Chester area and one 1500km trip to Scotland.

crosstownk

Essentially, what your tyres have is damage. Plain and simple. If you had have pointed out the damage on delivery then you might have some claim. But given the time and mileage in between then and now you haven't a leg to stand on. Basically, its similar to a scratch 'suddenly' appearing on your bodywork.

junkyard

I'd be absolutely amazed if your garage replaces your tyres.

crosstownk

junkyard wrote:

I'd be absolutely amazed if your garage replaces your tyres.

Me too

Seth Brundle

Me three

mloc123

Me Four... couldn't resist

junkyard

I suppose its only a matter of time before some guys expect garages to pay for road tax, insurance and fuel too.:rolleyes:

The_Magoo

24k miles from a tyre and your trying to get the garage to pay for new tyres, because you "say" your a carful drive and that you have never hit a pot hole.
Please find enclosed cyber slap to wake you up!

Anan1

I wouldn't go too hard on the OP - there is a line between answering the question and flinging insults. If we all knew everything then the boards would be a pretty quiet place.

Seth Brundle

junkyard wrote:

I suppose its only a matter of time before some guys expect garages to pay for road tax, insurance and fuel too.:rolleyes:

Proper order!
Still if the yanks can sue manufacturers then it could well happen in the future! http://news.google.co.uk/news?q=car%20manufacturers%20sued&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&sa=N&tab=wn

boomer_ie

The_Magoo wrote:

24k miles from a tyre and your trying to get the garage to pay for new tyres, because you "say" your a carful drive and that you have never hit a pot hole.
Please find enclosed cyber slap to wake you up!

So you dont feel where the garage has ADMITTED that they should have lasted longer that the garage should replace them?

However like i said earlier they have refused to put it in writing...

Alun

Tyre wear is dependant on a whole raft of factors ... correct inflation, driving style, road surfaces etc., and the figure the manufacturers give is only a guideline anyway. In any case, I'd say your gripe, if any, should be with the tyre manufacturer, not the car manufacturer.

What tyres are they, out of interest?

boomer_ie

Alun wrote:

Tyre wear is dependant on a whole raft of factors ... correct inflation, driving style, road surfaces etc., and the figure the manufacturers give is only a guideline anyway. In any case, I'd say your gripe, if any, should be with the tyre manufacturer, not the car manufacturer.

What tyres are they, out of interest?

Continental 205/50/R17

Anan1

boomer_ie wrote:

So you dont feel where the garage has ADMITTED that they should have lasted longer that the garage should replace them?

However like i said earlier they have refused to put it in writing...

When people talk about the lifespan of tyres, they are talking about tread wear. Your tyres are damaged. The two are completely different. Nobody can tell you how long a new tyre will last without being damaged - it could happen within 500 metres of leaving the garage.

Alun

Anan1, I thought he'd mentioned the tyres had worn as well, hence my comment, but reading back over the thread it appears he didn't. My bad.

To the OP: What Anan1 says is right, the projected lifetime of a tyre quoted by a manufacturer is solely concerned with tread wear, and has nothing to do with their resistance to damage caused by potholes, rocks on the road, kerbs etc.

Fey!

24,000 miles (or is it km?) on an 8 month old car is a high mileage.

Also, what is the rating on the tyre (T,Z,?)? I find that the higher ratings tend to last a shorter time.

And you do have to look after bigger tyres a bit better, I'm afraid. I'm replacing a set of 17" falkens after 16,000 miles, and I'm not a particularly hard driver (they are the back tyres on a RWD car, though - the fronts are fine).

maidhc

boomer_ie wrote:

So you dont feel where the garage has ADMITTED that they should have lasted longer that the garage should replace them?

Because they should have lasted longer does not mean they are faulty. To start 24k isn't great, but isn't awful either. The shorter lifespan may be due to:

a) Driving style
b) Inflation pressure
c) Road surface
d) 101 other things.

junkyard

Anan1 wrote:

I wouldn't go too hard on the OP - there is a line between answering the question and flinging insults. If we all knew everything then the boards would be a pretty quiet place.

But did you realise that some people here do know everything.

Dilbert75

I have an even bigger problem with my car - since I got it in May, its used hundreds of litres of petrol. Every fortnight I put more in but it keeps disappearing. Have you seen the price of that stuff? Do I have a claim against the garage who supplied it???:rolleyes:

skibum

Dilbert75 wrote:

I have an even bigger problem with my car - since I got it in May, its used hundreds of litres of petrol. Every fortnight I put more in but it keeps disappearing. Have you seen the price of that stuff? Do I have a claim against the garage who supplied it???:rolleyes:

maidhc

boomer_ie wrote:

Continental 205/50/R17

A truly shocking tyre for wearing (although probably very grippy)!

My father got about 18k miles out of a set, when cheaper tyres will do almost 40.

Larry David

boomer_ie wrote:

So you dont feel where the garage has ADMITTED that they should have lasted longer that the garage should replace them?

However like i said earlier they have refused to put it in writing...

"Should" have, and lasted "longer" isn't exactly a specific admittance, is it? Just because someone on the phone said "should", isn't specific enough to indicate any liability on their part....all that means to me is "they should have lasted longer"....but they didn't, and it could be a result of any number of factors beyond their control.

boomer_ie

maidhc wrote:

A truly shocking tyre for wearing (although probably very grippy)!

My father got about 18k miles out of a set, when cheaper tyres will do almost 40.

Actually I am not happy with the grip on them, or the water dispersion of them, have aquaplanned on tiny puddles

cpoh1

maidhc wrote:

A truly shocking tyre for wearing (although probably very grippy)!

My father got about 18k miles out of a set, when cheaper tyres will do almost 40.

My last two sets of tyres lasted approximately 8k each, bridgestone potenzas and goodyear eagle f1's!

peasant

boomer_ie wrote:

Actually I am not happy with the grip on them, or the water dispersion of them, have aquaplanned on tiny puddles

Yepp ..that's another problem with wide, low profile tyres. The wider the tyre the easier it aquaplanes.

If you don't mind the ****ty looks, you might seriously want to consider changing your wheels to something with a narrower and taller tyre, possibly on 15 or 16 inch rims.

Ask your garage / tyre guy for suitable alternatives.


I've just changed from 205 to 195 width on my Suzuki Jimny ...the difference when driving through puddles is massive ...much safer now !

cpoh1

Wider tyre=more contact with the road=more grip=faster stopping times=better tyre.

Aquaplaning can occur just as easily on a skinny tyre and ultimately with a thinner tyre your stopping distances will increase, within reason.

peasant

cpoh1 wrote:

Wider tyre=more contact with the road=more grip=faster stopping times=better tyre.

correct ...on dry, perfectly even surfaces (how many of those will you find in Ireland)

Aquaplaning can occur just as easily on a skinny tyre

Aquaplaing is a function of downward pressure per unit of surface and speed, the wider tyre will start to "float" at a lower speed than the narrow tyre.

ultimately with a thinner tyre your stopping distances will increase, within reason.

once again, this only applies on a dry, perfectly even surface. Also it very much depends on the thread and "stickiness" of the tyre

cpoh1

Well peasent seeing as you did physics in school it must be true!

Im off to change my 18/245/40 tyres for some 15/185/60's on my skyline...going by what youre saying it'll improve the braking and stopping distances on my car in all but perfect road surfaces???

Anan1

cpoh1 wrote:

Aquaplaning can occur just as easily on a skinny tyre.

No it can't. Read peasant's explanation. Rather than looking for the cheap dig, try to actually understand what he's saying. You never know, you might learn something.

peasant

Im off to change my 18/245/40 tyres for some 15/185/60's on my skyline...going by what youre saying it'll improve the braking and stopping distances on my car in all but perfect road surfaces???

exactly

What I'm trying to say is that it is not quite as simple as to say bigger = better.

Especially in soppy wet conditions bigger is definitely worse.

But as everything in life it's finding the right compromise. For your Skyline 185 are underdimensioned ...for Irish weather the 245 might just be a bit too wide ...

The OP's Focus and driving style might actually be better served by a tyre one size narrower and taller. Taking into account that it's no performance car and the op's desire for economy, durability and improved wet characteristics.

KTRIC

Jaysus lads, count yourselves lucky.

Us bikers replace tyres after about 7k :eek: and they're alot more expensive than car tyres.

cpoh1

peasant wrote:

exactly

What I'm trying to say is that it is not quite as simple as to say bigger = better.

Especially in soppy wet conditions bigger is definitely worse.

But as everything in life it's finding the right compromise. For your Skyline 185 are underdimensioned ...for Irish weather the 245 might just be a bit too wide ...

The OP's Focus and driving style might actually be better served by a tyre one size narrower and taller. Taking into account that it's no performance car and the op's desire for economy, durability and improved wet characteristics.

I suppose what were both trying to get is that going away too much from the manufacturers recommended spec is a bad idea, both too thin and too wide. Too thin on a car with a weight requiring wider tyres for grip and handling will end up with poor stopping distances, too wide for a car with a weight optimised for skinny tyres and aquaplaning and tramlining will occur

As to the op if you want a tyre that has better grip then it wont last as long as others. Grip and long lasting are two things with tyres that very seldom match unfortunately.

White Van Man

boomer_ie wrote:

Folks

I have a Ford Focus Estate car that I acquired in February (7th Feb to be exact)

You drove around for seven months, went back to the garage and demanded satisfaction for your tyre damage? There must have been some laughter in that garage.

If it was that easy to get tyres replaced we'd all be doing it.

Most warranties specifically exclude "consumables" like tyres anyway, so your chances of getting the garage to kit you out with three replacement tyres would be slim unless you spike their water cooler with Prozac or something.

Seth Brundle

KTRIC wrote:

Jaysus lads, count yourselves lucky.

Us bikers replace tyres after about 7k :eek: and they're alot more expensive than car tyres.

but you have only half the amount of tyres to buy compared to a car owner

KTRIC

kbannon wrote:

but you have only half the amount of tyres to buy compared to a car owner

Still cost me more for my bike tyres together than a full set of tyres for my old BMW.

VeVeX

You can buy a set of Asian crap like Wanli they will last 40k no problem.

Alternatively you could put a set of Michelin Pilot Primacys that will cover decent milage and handle superbly in wet and dry. Theres absolutely no point in my opinion putting your life and car at risk just to save a few quid and get more miles out of a set of tyres.

The reason these Asian tyres can cover huge milage is the high level of plastic thats in them. All they are is round and black. Very little of no technology goes into their construction. I'd honestly say cars fitted with these kind of tyres are a liability on the roads when it rains.