Panaorama prog about Vatican and Abuse cases

silverharp

I was watching the Panorama prog which laid out a case that the vatican was/is more interested in damage control then the victoms of clerical abuse. Interesting that the present Pope was responsible for this policy during the 90's.
A question that came to mind and is an honest one , not trying to stir it up. Were Irish priests statistically more likely to abuse then priests from other countries? During the prog they seemed to focus on Irish priests in the US. Assuming that Irish priest were more likey to abuse does anyone have any reasons why this may have been the case?

Asiaprod

silverharp wrote:

A question that came to mind and is an honest one , not trying to stir it up. Were Irish priests statistically more likely to abuse then priests from other countries? During the prog they seemed to focus on Irish priests in the US. Assuming that Irish priest were more likey to abuse does anyone have any reasons why this may have been the case?

Interesting. I will put my neck on the line and rephrase the question and ask it this way
Is the abuse symptomatic of Irish Priests, of the religion, or of the custodians of the religion in general.

lostexpectation

It wasn't a very good prog at all, I was only flicking on and off it, but I don't think it really spelled out the timeline of that dictat, the period that ratzinger was incharge and the chain of command up to him ,and his commands to others...

all that imagery of the secret order was a bit davinci code... :rolleyes:

they should have shown us the actualy document, its sections etc... where it came from, I hear on the radio them disputing the semantics of it.

still just hearing comiskey saying 'we moved him from the parish' as if that was enough, was chilling...

again i ask why the schools havn't taken off the church and put into a trust, you really wonder why there hasn't more opportunity for people to how their disgust and those who knew and tried to cover it up...

its definite the church that they were a law unto themselves and above the law

Mrs. MacGyver

It chilled me to the bone, especially when they interviewed Oliver O Grady and his tactics for seducing innocent children also he's not on the sex offenders register here so he's free to pounce again? Only now people who saw the documentary knows what he looks like. I think the reference to Irish priests as abusers looks more huge than it actually is as Ireland is such a small country. I cant beleive no pastoral care/councilling was offered to these unfortunate victims.

bounty

heres the whole show: http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolavconsole/ifs_news/hi/newsid_4120000/newsid_4124500/bb_rm_4124514.stm

bounty

lol typical :rolleyes: BrianCalgary sensored my post

too painful to watch?

Zombrex

Asiaprod wrote:

Interesting. I will put my neck on the line and rephrase the question and ask it this way
Is the abuse symptomatic of Irish Priests, of the religion, or of the custodians of the religion in general.

I think child abuse is simply a symptom of humanity. We will always have people that harm others. For me the issue isn't really does organised religion produce child abusers, it is if the Catholic church provided a place for child abusers to hide and function in relative safety from discovery or prosecution. Unfortunately the answer is overwhelmingly yes.

Any institution that expects and recieved unquestioning support from the population at large is dangerous, even if the instution believes it is acting for the good of said population. This is true of the Catholic church as much as other institutions such as the Chinese communist party or a cult in Waco.

It is not really surprising that the Church attempted to cover this up, as to maintain this level of respect they must appear at all times to be beyond repproach

Asiaprod

Wicknight wrote:

it is if the Catholic church provided a place for child abusers to hide and function in relative safety from discovery or prosecution. Unfortunately the answer is overwhelmingly yes.

And that was my point, yes, IMO the Catholic church does provided such a place.

Zombrex

Asiaprod wrote:

And that was my point, yes, IMO the Catholic church does provided such a place.

oh right, sorry I thought the is the abuse symptomatic of Irish Priests was asking is there something about being an Irish priest that makes one become a child abuser.

BrianCalgary

bounty wrote:

lol typical :rolleyes: BrianCalgary sensored my post

too painful to watch?

Bounty: I censored your post, not because of the show link, but because of the language you used.

Intelligent grown people do not need to use such language. The English dictionary is a big book. I am sure that within those pages you could find a more appropriate method of expressing yourself.

Thanks for your understanding
Brian:D

Asiaprod

Wicknight wrote:

oh right, sorry I thought the is the abuse symptomatic of Irish Priests was asking is there something about being an Irish priest that makes one become a child abuser.

No problem. 20 years in Japan has really messed up my english. I can see I did not express myself correctly, in retrospect.:)

bounty

BrianCalgary wrote:

Bounty: I censored your post, not because of the show link, but because of the language you used.

Intelligent grown people do not need to use such language. The English dictionary is a big book. I am sure that within those pages you could find a more appropriate method of expressing yourself.

Thanks for your understanding
Brian:D

change the subject to grammar! typical tactic of your type :rolleyes:


how about commenting on the pope's cover-up of pedo priests? or are you denying it doesnt happen?

BrianCalgary

bounty wrote:

change the subject to grammar! typical tactic of your type :rolleyes:


how about commenting on the pope's cover-up of pedo priests? or are you denying it doesnt happen?

Well, bounty. The show link was never removed by me. The censor was not about grammar. It was about profane language. Profane language is not acceptable.

I'm not going to comment on the show as I haven't watched it.

But to comment on the RC church covering up paedophaelia, of course it happened and it is horrendous that it did.

babyvaio

It would not be fair to say that Christianity committed those ugly things. God knows best who did that. He knows them one by one. However, maybe it should not be bad to point out that the more things like those happen, the more it shows the current state of Christianity as a community.

There are other numerous bad things that in most of the Christian homes are considered ok (or not illegal by the God's Law), such as:

- premarital sex
- drugs (taking, selling, buying, etc.)
- alcohol (same as above)
- disobedience to parents (in legal things, not illegal of course)
- forgetting about their religious duties
- etc.

There are also other factors showing that in countries where Christians of atheists are in majority (today the so-called Western World) crime, violence, murder, suicide, robbery, child abuse, sexual assault, rape, etc. are the common and everyday things (some of them even everysecond things) which is strongly suggesting that the western world is loosing (or it has lost) the morality and that people are more and more behaving like animals (not meaning that they are that) which can't think or judge or choose but have their behaviour patterns based purely on instincts.

BrianCalgary

babyvaio wrote:

It would not be fair to say that Christianity committed those ugly things. God knows best who did that. He knows them one by one. However, maybe it should not be bad to point out that the more things like those happen, the more it shows the current state of Christianity as a community.

There are other numerous bad things that in most of the Christian homes are considered ok (or not illegal by the God's Law), such as:

- premarital sex
- drugs (taking, selling, buying, etc.)
- alcohol (same as above)
- disobedience to parents (in legal things, not illegal of course)
- forgetting about their religious duties
- etc.

There are also other factors showing that in countries where Christians of atheists are in majority (today the so-called Western World) crime, violence, murder, suicide, robbery, child abuse, sexual assault, rape, etc. are the common and everyday things (some of them even everysecond things) which is strongly suggesting that the western world is loosing (or it has lost) the morality and that people are more and more behaving like animals (not meaning that they are that) which can't think or judge or choose but have their behaviour patterns based purely on instincts.

I agree with you BV. But to clarify things. Any Christian home that I know does not think that you're above list is OK.

The only exception being alcohol consumption. I had a beer on Friday, enjoyed and had 1. No drunkeness.

Unforunately, form what I have heard, the middleeastern countries and the southeast Asian countries view the west as being Christian, they view American TV as being a reflection of Christian society. That is false, neither American TV nor the west is Christian.

lostexpectation

Pope 'horrified' by Irish clergy's sex abuse
26/10/2006 - 18:36:02 Pope Benedict XVI today revealed his horror at the behaviour of more than 20 priests who sexually abused children in the Diocese of Ferns.

Pope Benedict XVI today revealed his horror at the behaviour of more than 20 priests who sexually abused children in the Diocese of Ferns.

The pontiff told the Bishop of Ferns, the Revered Denis Brennan, he was praying for the healing and peace of all those who had suffered.

In his first comments on the abuse as pontiff, he spoke of his deep sorrow and distress at the suffering endured by the victims.

He expressed his own personal anguish and horror at the incomprehensible behaviour of those clergy. He told Bishop Brennan the priests’ actions had devastated human lives and profoundly betrayed the trust of children, young people, their families and parish communities.

The pope received Bishop Brennan as part of the visit of the Irish Episcopal Conference.

shocked and surprised Im sure!

Zombrex

Yes but the church has always been "horrified" about child abuse, but they don't do anything because protecting the imagine and stability of the Church was more important than protecting the children.