Ryanair - emergency medical equipment and other airlines

whiskeyman

Ryanair have been taking a lot of flak over the incident where an young italian woman died on board and their medical equipment on board was discovered to be very minimal.
However, they complied to the regulations (minimum at that, but still complied), and I feel Ryanair took a lot of bashing when it should have been the regulations that needed scrutiny.
What I never heard was what other airlines carry.
Did any journo worth their salt actually ask Aer Lingus, Easyjet or anyone else what their first aid kits comprise? Or did any other airline actually disclose?

Wishbone Ash

whiskeyman wrote:

Did any journo worth their salt actually ask Aer Lingus, Easyjet or anyone else what their first aid kits comprise? Or did any other airline actually disclose?

Staff from Aer Lingus and British Airways were on 'Liveline' describing what they carry and it was much more extensive. In fairness to Ryanair, their flights are all short-haul and never far from any airport. (i.e. no trans-Atlantic ones, hours from landing). They have never had anyone die before on a flight before and appeared to have complied with the basic requirements. Michael O'Leary's arrogance on the subject, when interviewed, didn't help matters.

A lot of people (including staff) seemed to be getting confused about the vital airway stabiliser (sorry can't remember it's name) which was required. They seemed to assume that the doctor and nurses (who were passengers), and who were treating the girl, were referring to an oxygen face mask.

A friend of mine was sitting beside a passenger who died on a trans-Atlantic flight years ago. He said it was a bit weird. They covered the corpse with a blanket in his seat because the flight was full. My friend had to sit beside him for the remainder of the flight.

Mr E

What was a bit suss to me was that O'Leary said all the equipment was on board (the tube to open the airways, and the ambubag to assist breathing). However, the nurse in question was on Liveline last week, and said that she looked several times for this equipment and it wasn't there. So did the staff, and the doctor on board. They just had basic bandages and paracetamol.

whiskeyman

Wishbone Ash wrote:

A friend of mine was sitting beside a passenger who died on a trans-Atlantic flight years ago. He said it was a bit weird. They covered the corpse with a blanket in his seat because the flight was full. My friend had to sit beside him for the remainder of the flight.

:eek:

seamus

Wishbone Ash wrote:

A friend of mine was sitting beside a passenger who died on a trans-Atlantic flight years ago. He said it was a bit weird. They covered the corpse with a blanket in his seat because the flight was full. My friend had to sit beside him for the remainder of the flight.

This is the usual. If someone dies on a long-haul flight, they prefer to cover them in a blanket and make it look like the person is sleeping, rather than make a big deal out of it can freak out a whole pile of passengers. Where they can, they'll try and move the other passengers so they don't have to spend a flight sitting next to the dead guy.

Wishbone Ash

seamus wrote:

Where they can, they'll try and move the other passengers so they don't have to spend a flight sitting next to the dead guy.

The flight was full, but I think one of the stewards may have offered him a jump seat but he said he didn't mind staying where he was.

BendiBus

My main concern is that it seems the medical kit was on board but the cabin crew didn't seem to know where it was (or even that it was there). They could only find the additional kit with the painkillers.

On a side issue, afaik, first aid kits in the workplace are not allowed contain painkillers. Theory being they won't save you from injury but can do damage (too much paracetemol can kill), leaving an employer liable to a claim. Would this not also be the case on an Irish reg aircraft?

Red Alert

I know this was a brain haemorrage so the rest of this wouldn't help but here goes:

Every aeroplane should be fitted with a fully automatic defibrillator. These are totally different animals to those seen in ER. They're a self contained battery operated pack, under full computer control. They use voice prompts and can be used in an emergency by an amateur if required. They measure the ECG signals from the stiff's chest and analyze them to see if a shock should be administered or not.

Presumably an airline which really cares about saving lives and ensuring safety would fit the device to all aeroplanes. (This applies to ALL airlines, not just ryanair). Why wait for a regulatory compulsion before fitting a life saving device?

It's not the only medical device that can save lives, but it is one which could make a difference.

Sarsfield

Red Alert wrote:

Every aeroplane should be fitted with a fully automatic defibrillator.

Are there any indications as to how many lives this might save on short haul flights? I'm genuinely interested but I can't imagine it's many. I think the priority for aircrew in most on board emergencies should be to secure the cabin & land ASAP. You're never far from a runway in Europe.

Why wait for a regulatory compulsion before fitting a life saving device?

Cost.

While typing I've now started wondering if the presence of too much kit on board might influence a crew to delay a decision on landing ASAP. Maybe not in a cardiac arrest, but in borderline cases.

secret_squirrel

Aer Lingus definately carry defibs on their Transatlantics, not sure about their European though...

I dont know of a european Airline that doesnt do defibs on long haul, but Im sure there are one or two out there still.

Im not sure what the situation would be on an American carrier, where the Yanks might sue you for saving their life. :rolleyes:

BrianD

BendiBus wrote:

My main concern is that it seems the medical kit was on board but the cabin crew didn't seem to know where it was (or even that it was there). They could only find the additional kit with the painkillers.

On a side issue, afaik, first aid kits in the workplace are not allowed contain painkillers. Theory being they won't save you from injury but can do damage (too much paracetemol can kill), leaving an employer liable to a claim. Would this not also be the case on an Irish reg aircraft?

I thought so as well ... perhaps the crew had them for hang overs!

All of this equipment is only ever of use if a qualified first-aider or medical person is available.


Is there a requirement to have first-aiders on board (i.e the air crew)?

secret_squirrel

BrianD wrote:

Is there a requirement to have first-aiders on board (i.e the air crew)?

There's a course called SEP (Safety and Emergency procedures) that flight crew have to do every year. Whilst its not a first aid course per se, it covers some of the same areas, and goes further in some areas. For instance Im not aware of the standard first aid course covering defibs.

Victor

Wishbone Ash wrote:

They have never had anyone die before on a flight before and appeared to have complied with the basic requirements.

I find this surprising if they've carried 100m+ passengers.

A 75 year old person has lived for 657,000 hours. Someone has had to have died, unless they go by the definition of "there was no doctor to call it".

Wishbone Ash

Originally Posted by Wishbone Ash
They have never had anyone die before on a flight before and appeared to have complied with the basic requirements.

Victor wrote:

I find this surprising if they've carried 100m+ passengers.

A 75 year old person has lived for 657,000 hours. Someone has had to have died, unless they go by the definition of "there was no doctor to call it".

I also found it difficult to believe. It was Michael O'Leary who stated that so make of it what you will!

WexCan

Sorry to resurrect this threat.

At easyJet, we carry two full first aid kits on each aircraft - these are quite big and include pretty much everything you might need, though we don't have defibs.

The senior crew member also carrie s a smaller kit which has the more common items like plasters, painkillers etc.

We are allowed to carry painkillers because it's not reasonable to expect passengers to pop to the nearest chemist. They are presented to the passenger in a box so that the passenger can see what they're taking. The passenger then self administers.

All cabin crew are fully trained in first aid - this is a requirement virtually worldwide. We have recurrent training every year to keep this current.

Secret_squirrell, SEP relates to evacuation, fire fighting, smoke drills, decompression scenarios, exit operation and slide descent - AvMed/first aid is taught seperately in most companies.

keroseneboy

whiskeyman wrote: »

Ryanair have been taking a lot of flak over the incident where an young italian woman died on board and their medical equipment on board was discovered to be very minimal.

There was a medical emergency on board a Ryanair aircraft yesterday evening on a flight bound for Dublin from Alicante. When the volunteer pax/doctor asked the cabin crew for the medical oxygen, the cylinder was found to be empty.

Jamie2k9

There was a medical emergency on board a Ryanair aircraft yesterday evening on a flight bound for Dublin from Alicante. When the volunteer pax/doctor asked the cabin crew for the medical oxygen, the cylinder was found to be empty.

You need to pay for it....

Sponge Bob

It takes €5 coins, don't tell me the staff weren't carrying them.

flazio

I'm sure that gave the rest of the passengers great confidence that the decompression masks would work if they needed them. Speaking of which, could a decompression mask be deployed and used for this sort of emergency?

Victor

flazio wrote: »

I'm sure that gave the rest of the passengers great confidence that the decompression masks would work if they needed them. Speaking of which, could a decompression mask be deployed and used for this sort of emergency?

I'm not sure if it generates enough oxygen for medical purposes.

Many aircraft use oxygen generators, not compressed oxygen, as the latter is a hazard in a fire situation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_oxygen_generator

Jamie2k9

You should not use the oxygen masks for a medical emergency. The bottles of oxygen on board should be checked before every departure however they can leak quiet easily.