“Show one show all”

phantom_lord

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I always thought this was a friendly sorta jibe, player a shows player b his hand after I wins a pot uncontested and he’s persuaded to show everyone else when someone says “ah go, show one…”.

It’s just that last night in a live game a guy at the table insisted when someone showed one card after winning an uncontested pot that they’d have to show both cards under the “Show one show all rule”, which I thought was a different sort of interpretation of that sentence. But he insisted that was a rule in casinos, would I be wrong in thinking that he’s just getting mixed up with where you have to show both cards to claim a pot, or is he correct?

Later on I took down a pot uncontested, I just gave the guy beside me a peek at my rockets and I threw them over onto the muck. Maybe it’s a bit inappropriate for me to do that, but other players have done it and there’s never been a problem. Anyway, another player grabbed my cards and turned them over, insisting that if I “show one I’ve to show everyone”, and that was a rule.I thought it was pretty rude of him. Is he correct?

cooker3

If you show 1 player your cards then everyone has a right to see them.
If I am dealing then I would turn them over automatically to show the other players. Everyone at the table is entitle to have same information as each other.

phantom_lord

Ok, fair enough, my mistake...

eggie

It is the rule, however, if your cards were actually in the muck then he shouldnt be going anwhere near them. If they werent in the muck then its the dealer who should be turning them over.

Think i would get a little verbal with an a$$hole turning over my cards like that, if he had the manners to ask me with some sort of decorum i would show them no probs.

Daithio

cooker3 wrote:

If you show 1 player your cards then everyone has a right to see them.
If I am dealing then I would turn them over automatically to show the other players. Everyone at the table is entitle to have same information as each other.

It's weird, in the states they don't apply this rule. I can show the player sitting next to me my cards and then muck them, and nobody ever asks to see them and the dealer mixes them up with the rest of the deck straight away. I prefer the way it is here. One rule I really don't like is that if you show just one of your cards to the whole table, other players have the right to ask to see the other one. This was brought up on here a while ago. I'm fairly certain it's just a misinterpretation of the rule that if you show one player your cards you have to show all other players your cards, which makes sense. But if your willingly volunteering extra information, by just showing one card, then you shouldn't be forced to give up any more IMO. All that it results in is people not showing any cards at all, which is bad.

mdwexford

Daithio wrote:

It's weird, in the states they don't apply this rule. I can show the player sitting next to me my cards and then muck them, and nobody ever asks to see them and the dealer mixes them up with the rest of the deck straight away. I prefer the way it is here. One rule I really don't like is that if you show just one of your cards to the whole table, other players have the right to ask to see the other one. This was brought up on here a while ago. I'm fairly certain it's just a misinterpretation of the rule that if you show one player your cards you have to show all other players your cards, which makes sense. But if your willingly volunteering extra information, by just showing one card, then you shouldn't be forced to give up any more IMO. All that it results in is people not showing any cards at all, which is bad.

i agree, if your giving free info you shouldnt be required to show both cards.
its funny though when some guy gets you to fold and shows you some silly card to try and tilt you, id always demand to see the second one then

LuckyLloyd

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Mr. Flibble

The 'show one show all' means that if you show any player one or two of your cards you have to show everyone at the table that/those card/cards. This is the rule in tournaments, I'm not sure if it applys in cash games but can think of reasons why it shouldn't.

However, this rule has nothing to do with showing your second card if you show your first card. If you show one of your cards to all the players you don't need to show your second card (unless you have to show your cards due to a showdown of course). So the guy you mention above was wrong.

I'm told confusion has arisen in part because in omaha where you have 4 cards but only use 2 to win a pot you must show all 4 of your cards at a showdown, even tho you are only using two to win the pot, although this is the same except for 2 and 1 cards in holdem so don't know why people would get this confused.

Sinfonia

imo there's too many nitpicky rules here, i prefer the american rulings on most things, really annoys me in casinos when 'rule nazis' start kicking up a whole big fuss over a card being/not being shown, i prefer to just let things carry on, instead of causing an awkward hostility at the table etc.

shady_dice

maybe i am wrong in this and it had something to do with the way a hand played out but as far as i can tell, when playing on pokerstars and a hand goes to showdown the player who won the pot can go back into the hand history and see what it was the player he was in the pot with mucked. whereas i, if i am at the same table but not in the hand just get that he mucked without actaully being able to see his cards. am i mistaken in this observation or can someone more in the know maybe point out why this is in relation to the rules. thought it was a weird one

Goodluck2me

there are 2 rules here
One show show all - where you show a player beside you your cards, then everyone else has the right to the same information. which i think is fair enough as they can see what you raise-reraise fold with etc.


Show one show both - This is where you show one card you have to show the other (when and only when requested to) so you dont tilt people too easily. its a strange one whether to get a little bit of information ( albeit sometimes decieving) or to get no information at all.

BOth should be enforced by the dealers, this applies to pokerevents games, im not entirely sure about other places.

Mr. Flibble

goodluck2me wrote:

there are 2 rules here
...

Show one show both - This is where you show one card you have to show the other (when and only when requested to) so you dont tilt people too easily. its a strange one whether to get a little bit of information ( albeit sometimes decieving) or to get no information at all.

BOth should be enforced by the dealers, this applies to pokerevents games, im not entirely sure about other places.

I don't think this second one is a rule. I researched it ages ago and found a lot of people saying likewise.

When watching TV poker you will see loads of instances of players flashing one card before mucking without anyone asking to see the 2nd card. In a recent enough episode of the PPT if I remember correctly Scotty Nguyen flashes one of his cards after winning a pot then throws both his cards towards the muck face down. The dealer turns them over and Scotty rightly has a go at her for turning them over. The commentators agree as does the TD that the dealer had no right to show his other card.

5starpool

Mr Flibble - This is where the lack of a uniform set of rules come into play. If this is a house rule then it is perfectly ok to ask. This seems to be the rule in most places in ireland anyhow.

Mr. Flibble

5starpool wrote:

Mr Flibble - This is where the lack of a uniform set of rules come into play. If this is a house rule then it is perfectly ok to ask. This seems to be the rule in most places in ireland anyhow.

Aye, certainly. I sholdn't have said the guy was wrong. I'd imagine that most large tournaments would use the rule as I described. But yes, the rule in the particular place could be anything.

ntlbell

Mr. Flibble wrote:

Aye, certainly. I sholdn't have said the guy was wrong. I'd imagine that most large tournaments would use the rule as I described. But yes, the rule in the particular place could be anything.

It's not a tournament rule.

e.g. in the fitz after a tournament hand i can show one card and the players cannot ask to view the other.

During a cash game if i show one i must show the other card if a player requests it.

So I usually throw one card well into the muck and then show one.

Mr. Flibble

ntlbell wrote:

It's not a tournament rule.

e.g. in the fitz after a tournament hand i can show one card and the players cannot ask to view the other.

During a cash game if i show one i must show the other card if a player requests it.

So I usually throw one card well into the muck and then show one.

Ok. That's new to me. Do you know why the difference?

5starpool

ntlbell wrote:

It's not a tournament rule.

e.g. in the fitz after a tournament hand i can show one card and the players cannot ask to view the other.

During a cash game if i show one i must show the other card if a player requests it.

So I usually throw one card well into the muck and then show one.

This is incorrect as far as the Fitz goes. The rule applies in both.

ntlbell

5starpool wrote:

This is incorrect as far as the Fitz goes. The rule applies in both.

Well then all dealers in the fitz need to polish up on the rules

I've asked this of numerous dealers in the fitz and i've always been told it's only in cash games.

Mellor

I don't think that it should be a rule.
for example, if you got a player to fold after a scare card, say an ace on the turn, pops up. He thought about it and finally folded and you show him the ace as a good will gesture, I'd be a little mad if he stone cold demanded to see the other.

I was in a situation where at the showdown my two cards were face down on the cloth, i flipped one over, it was an ace and the only other player in the pot mucks his hand, so i muck my cards and grab the pot. A player who wasn't in the pot kicks up a fuss about my other card. The other players didnt care and the cards were mucked, so I said it was only a rag (was really a king) but the player moaned about it for a hand or two.

cooker3

Mellor wrote:

I was in a situation where at the showdown my two cards were face down on the cloth, i flipped one over, it was an ace and the only other player in the pot mucks his hand, so i muck my cards and grab the pot. A player who wasn't in the pot kicks up a fuss about my other card. The other players didnt care and the cards were mucked, so I said it was only a rag (was really a king) but the player moaned about it for a hand or two.

Other player was right, at showdown you MUST show both cards to claim pot, no exceptions, well least not in Ireland anyway.

Mr. Flibble

cooker3 wrote:

Other player was right, at showdown you MUST show both cards to claim pot, no exceptions, well least not in Ireland anyway.

Nooooooooo. Not this argument again. If the other player mucks his cards there is no showdown!! You can't showdown against mucked cards. If the other guy kept his cards then he could have asked to see both at the showdown.

edit: I accept some clubs make you show your hand to win a pot even if there are no other players left in the but I don't think they should.

cooker3

Mr. Flibble wrote:

Nooooooooo. Not this argument again. If the other player mucks his cards there is no showdown!! You can't showdown against mucked cards. If the other guy kept his cards then he could have asked to see both at the showdown.

edit: I accept some clubs make you show your hand to win a pot even if there are no other players left in the but I don't think they should.

I know we just did this debate, but I think this was made clear, if on river it has been checked down or been bet and call then winner must show both, I thought that was pretty much commonly agreed.

Mr. Flibble

cooker3 wrote:

I know we just did this debate, but I think this was made clear, if on river it has been checked down or been bet and call then winner must show both, I thought that was pretty much commonly agreed.

Maybe it was. I disagree with it though. Like I said in the thread about it, you are the last player with cards - who else is going to win the pot but you? Your cards no longer matter and I think you should be able to muck them. But I'll agree to disagree (with the whole world if need be!) : }

El Stuntman

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Couldn't agree more. If he puts his hands in the muck to retrieve cards his hand should stay in the muck extracted from his arm!! I'm in favour of giving dealers special knives solely for such a purpose....

bloody hell :eek:

I'm never trying to wind you up at the table again!

LuckyLloyd

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LuckyLloyd

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El Stuntman

LuckyLloyd wrote:

I hope so. Who do you think you are? Amarillo Slim? "You can give me €35 and I'll show you one card - whichever one you like". Give me a break. I should have potted your ass saying something suitably imposing along the lines of "how do ya like them apples?". Then followed it up with a commanding "huh?". And then an impressive stare down.

But I didn't because it scared the hell out of me and I folded like the big feathered chicken that I am. Sigh.

lol

heads-up for bankrolls

you and me

outside

right now

gotta admit it was quality speechplay though

did you head on to the Jackpot you degenerate madman?

Mellor

cooker3 wrote:

Other player was right, at showdown you MUST show both cards to claim pot, no exceptions, well least not in Ireland anyway.

I know you're supposed to, but I showed one and before I got the other flipped, he muck and said take it. So i just took the pot and mucked the cards. Then I was asked to show, and they were already in the muck. Couldn't do much and he was moany about it.

jacQues

shady_dice wrote:

maybe i am wrong in this and it had something to do with the way a hand played out but as far as i can tell, when playing on pokerstars and a hand goes to showdown the player who won the pot can go back into the hand history and see what it was the player he was in the pot with mucked. whereas i, if i am at the same table but not in the hand just get that he mucked without actaully being able to see his cards. am i mistaken in this observation or can someone more in the know maybe point out why this is in relation to the rules. thought it was a weird one

That only works if the player was all-in. All players can see such hands in the hand history. The idea is that if you go all-in you always go to showdown where you *should* show (unless you went all-in and there were no callers, in which case your cards are NOT shown in the hand history).

Comparing on-line poker with paper poker isn't ideal as IMHO they're almost two different games.

jacQues

LuckyLloyd

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HalfBaked

LuckyLloyd wrote:

I did. Played a couple of hands terribly and then actually nodded off for a second at the table. :eek:

Got up to go pretty quickly after that...

You did look wrecked when you were leaving, made the right decision though. Ended up a good night down there after some fluctuation. SE was good fun with you, me, elstuntman and ste05 (plus one boards lurker) on the same table.

Still can't believe you insinuated that I was raising without premium cards on the button...well I never!

El Stuntman

HalfBaked wrote:

You did look wrecked when you were leaving, made the right decision though. Ended up a good night down there after some fluctuation. SE was good fun with you, me, elstuntman and ste05 (plus one boards lurker) on the same table.

Still can't believe you insinuated that I was raising without premium cards on the button...well I never!

who was Ste05 Peter? Hope it wasn't the dude I upset by ranting about how cricket was a better sport than soccer!

enjoyable speechplay all round....

HalfBaked

El Stuntman wrote:

who was Ste05 Peter? Hope it wasn't the dude I upset by ranting about how cricket was a better sport than soccer!

enjoyable speechplay all round....

Good laugh alright.

Ste05 was sitting directly to my left (exactly where I wanted him;)) when we were all at the table. Thankfully he was pretty card dead......that or he's even rockier than Lloyd:eek:

Not to self - must use that super speech play on Lloyd in future (I'll let you look at one card for €30....wp Sir)

El Stuntman

HalfBaked wrote:

Good laugh alright.

Ste05 was sitting directly to my left (exactly where I wanted him;)) when we were all at the table. Thankfully he was pretty card dead......that or he's even rockier than Lloyd:eek:

Not to self - must use that super speech play on Lloyd in future (I'll let you look at one card for €30....wp Sir)

ah yes I have him now - tight haircut, happy demeanour?

if he's the guy I'm thinking of, I badgered him into blind raising UTG quite a bit!

HalfBaked

El Stuntman wrote:

ah yes I have him now - tight haircut, happy demeanour?

if he's the guy I'm thinking of, I badgered him into blind raising UTG quite a bit!

I don't think so. He was wearing a suit, flopish type hair (I stand to be corrected Ste)

5starpool

LuckyLloyd wrote:

In a situation like this what I would do is very simple: ask my opponent who has mucked his cards whether his hand is dead, when confirmed wait until the pot has been awarded to me and then fire my cards deep into the muck.

If you throw your cards in and declare your hand dead you should have no right to see an opponents hand. He takes the pot on the strength of the fact that he is the last man standing. His actual holding is no longer an issue. He may show only if he wants to.


Obviously, the situation would be reversed if I bet on the river and was called by an opponent who doesn't muck his cards but doesn't declare instantly as the onus is on me to declare first because I was called. Then I must show both cards in order to win the pot. If I turned over an A for example, and he then mucked - I would have to turn over my other card. Fair enough - he would have paid the price to see (and knowing me it would probably have been expensive).



With regards to this sh*te "show one show all" rule. :mad: If I flash my cards to a player sitting beside me before discarding a hand I absolutely detest someone at the table piping up: "I thought the rule was show one, show all mate?!"

Why? If I show my cards to someone it will only be to a player that I have a bit of respect for. I would probably give an honest answer on what I was holding in any given hand to that player after a game if he asked anyway. Moreover, there are times when I will flash cards to a friend in a game if they are sitting beside me. Someone at the table may utter the holy words: I lie and my friend confirms my dishonesty as fact.

My point is that if an opponent is willing to show cards to someone before folding and you aren't that someone then you are wasting your time bringing up the "show one, show all" rule. Those two players are probably sharing much more information than your ever going to receive and you should just get on with it and play your own game.

End of particular rant. More will follow in future I'm sure.

This is a very unfriendly attitude.

LuckyLloyd

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El Stuntman

LuckyLloyd wrote:

Thats it. Next time I'm playing you bunch of chancers I'm going to actuallyuse those headphones that I bring in with me all the time. I will develop a blank and stoney exterior to compliment my boulder like strategy. Gradually, over time, they will come to call me Lloyd "tight lips" O' Farrell.

I will play poker with a blank expression - very still and silent - moving occassionally to slam my fist on the table after some poor idiot with more money than sense has paid off my €300+ river bet that I have made with the nuts. People will only use descriptions such as "Granite", "Rocky", "Tight", "Plain Dull" when speaking of my playing style and general demeanour at the table.

The upside to all of this is that no - one will bother with smart - arse speech play against me. They will ultimately decide that such mental exertions are wasted on such a vacant Beast.

Oh yeah, you better watch out - I have yes all exactly where I want ya now...:cool:

come on Lloyd, the only reason you have those headphones is to disguise your enormous ears!!

HalfBaked

LuckyLloyd wrote:

moving occassionally to slam my fist on the table after some poor idiot with more money than sense has paid off my €300+ river bet that I have made with the nuts.

Bit harsh on Ian don't you think:p

LuckyLloyd

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ianmc38

HalfBaked wrote:

Bit harsh on Ian don't you think:p

El Stuntman

ianmc38 wrote:

is that one of the Shell to Sea protestors?