Solicitor didnt spot planning application when I bought my house

homeOwner

Dont know if this is the right place to post this.....

I have just bought a house but have not paid the bill to the solicitor yet. I am due to go to his office on tuesday and pay him. I just found out 2 weeks after I got the keys for the new house that there is a planning application to knock down and build a complex of 93 apartments in the site just over my back wall. Currently it is a disused building 1 story in height with mature trees all around it, the proposed application is for 3 four-story apartment blocks which are going to directly over look my garden and potentiall block out some sunlight.

The date for opposing the planning passed in July while I was in the process of buying, i signed the contracts in early july and closed the sale in early august. I would have thought that my solicitor would have checked for planning permissions as he has "searches" listed on the bill. I probably would not have bought the house had I known that there was a planning application in the pipeline.

Any ideas how I should handle this with him over the bill or what should I do.....is it a reportable issue so some governing body? Or is it a case of hard luck i should have found it out for myself?

delly

I'm sure the legal eagles will correct me on this if needs be, but I don't see how your solicitor can be held accountable for a planning application near your house. As far as i know, they check that every thing if above board on your house and to search that there is no skeletons in the closet of the house your buying.

micks

homeOwner wrote:

Any ideas how I should handle this with him over the bill or what should I do.....is it a reportable issue so some governing body? Or is it a case of hard luck i should have found it out for myself?

As previous post states i'm pretty sure the solicitor is only looking into the property you are buying.
I know you need this like a kick in the teeth but it would be up to you to have a look around the area your moving into to see what you jumping into,and local planning applications would be a must to check up on , but by yourself UNLESS you requested the solicitor to check these out

Maximilian

I'd have to agree with the previous posters. Look, what if you bought the house and subsequently somebody lodged an application to develop an adjoining property? The only difference is timing.

Be thankful its not a halting site being proposed.

dats_right

Did you want the solicitor to open the door to your new house for you, perhaps carry you over the thresehold personally? or maybe even paint it? Well, guess what? I'm afraid none of them are your solicitor's responsibility, nor indeed is a planning search of the surrounding area of your new home. I'm afraid that is up to you and you alone. The duty on your solicitor is to make sure that you acquire a good marketable title for the property that you have bought. Planning in the surrounding areas of your new home are not his problem and do not affect whether you obtain a good marketable title.

In order to ensure good marketable title, one of the things the solicitor must do is order Searches. The searches your solicitor will have probably billed you for are 1) Land Registry/Registry of Deeds search 2) Judgements search 3) Bankruptcy search and maybe also a Companies search and/or a Planning search (however this only applies to the property in question and not the surrounding areas).

Depending on the circumstances of each particular case, most solicitors will tell their clients that it might be an idea for them to take a stroll down to the local authority office and take a look at the planning register for themselves, to see if there are any developments planned in the locality. But there is certainly no duty on the solicitor to do so, but then again many clients don't actually realise that they too have responsibilities with regard to the mortgage/conveyancing process. And you have just learnt that the hard way!

Now that you have a clearer understanding of the solicitor's duties vis-a-vis the clients duties, I'm sure that should you ever buy a property again, that you will be a little more proactive in the whole process. And I'm willing to bet that you'll never make that mistake again. Oh and be sure to enjoy the view of the new development!

DublinWriter

dats_right wrote:

Depending on the circumstances of each particular case, most solicitors will tell their clients that it might be an idea for them to take a stroll down to the local authority office and take a look at the planning register for themselves, to see if there are any developments planned in the locality.

Indeedy. Where I am now overlooks the countryside. Before I bought it I checked with the local county council offices to see if anyone had put in planning permission for the land at the back of my house.

There was no way I considered there to be an onus on my solictor when preparing the deeds to my house.

OP - it's just your tough you-know-what I'm afraid.

silverside

sometimes the solicitor will recommend in their introductory letter that you inspect the council planning register. It is still your responsibility. it is unfortunate that you did not do so in this case.

Amazotheamazing

Surely whoever you bought the house off has more of a responsibility to tell you these things, if they knew, rather than your solicitor?

Pines

Amazotheamazing wrote:

Surely whoever you bought the house off has more of a responsibility to tell you these things, if they knew, rather than your solicitor?

Nope, it's caveat emptor. While they might feel obliged to tell you in response to a specific question, no sane vendor is going to volunteer information without prompting if that will devalue the property in the eyes of the potential purchaser, unless they have an unusually high standard of personal ethics.

johnnysmurfman

The lads are 100% right, it looks like it'll be tough luck for you. When was the planning application lodged? You know you have 5 weeks from the date of lodgment to make an objection to the planning authority which will entitle you to appeal any future grant to An Bord Pleanala. If I were you I'd look into this asap.

homeOwner

dats_right wrote:

Did you want the solicitor to open the door to your new house for you, perhaps carry you over the thresehold personally? or maybe even paint it? Well, guess what? I'm afraid none of them are your solicitor's responsibility, nor indeed is a planning search of the surrounding area of your new home. I'm afraid that is up to you and you alone. The duty on your solicitor is to make sure that you acquire a good marketable title for the property that you have bought. Planning in the surrounding areas of your new home are not his problem and do not affect whether you obtain a good marketable title.

Now that you have a clearer understanding of the solicitor's duties vis-a-vis the clients duties, I'm sure that should you ever buy a property again, that you will be a little more proactive in the whole process. And I'm willing to bet that you'll never make that mistake again. Oh and be sure to enjoy the view of the new development!

Whats with the attitude? I am just asking a question not inviting a personal slagging.

Thanks to the rest of you who actually provided helpful comments. The time for appeals has passed but I found out the residents association has already lodged their appeals and we are awaiting a verdict once the builder submits more documentation to the council.

fruitcake

defo the attitude is a little harsh as a response to an innoncent query:rolleyes:

Overheal

Worst case scenario: you could rent out the house to students /=/ damn we make a mess. Possibly not a bad future-investment idea, if you find down the line you are sick of the place.

Hopefully though, you'll get some time to enjoy the house before all the development happens.

dats_right

OP you should count yourself lucky, if you were a client of mine I would have charged you money for that advice! So you don't like my tone? Well, there you go, at least I gave you an accurate and comprehensive answer. Most of the other posts were guessing at the answer, at least I knew for certain the correct answer to your query.

To be honest, the title of your post annoyed me. Some people are far to quick to blame others, notably their solicitors for all manner of things that go wrong in the conveyancing process. If they had bothered to educate themselves about the process then they would realise that quite often the problem is of their own making.

Credit where credit is due at least you in your wisdom sought advice from this board regarding your issue. Had you not it is quite possible nay probable that you would have bad mouthed this solicitor or at least not recommended this solicitor to friends, colleagues, etc based on a mistaken belief that the solicitor had not done his job to the requisite standard. So it is quite possible that many people could have had the mistaken impression that this solicitor is somehow deficient or negligent, when the solicitor had in fact done absolutely nothing wrong. Word of mouth is extremely important to solicitors, for most firms the vast majority of new clients are the result of a positive recommondation.

These are the reasons why I was a little flippant in my original response to you. Personally, as it happens I would favour getting the correct answer to my query than getting an uncertain sugar-coated answer. But you are obviously a little bit more sensitive than myself.

NUTLEY BOY

OP you were very unfortunate.

In context, the primary function of the solicitor is to see that you receive a good title to the property being conveyed to you. That is one of the purposes of those searches against title. However, these searches are against the title of the property to be conveyed but not the general neighbourhood.

We can all learn a lesson from your most unfortunate experience.

Was the house inspected by a surveyor before purchase ? Most surveyors just survey for value for the lending institution.

Given the value of property these days a survey for prospective purchasers for condition should be done by either a surveyor or architect acting on your behalf as distinct from a lending institution. They would probably need to be given specific instructions however to follow up the point on which your problem turns. I know, 20/20 hindsight !!

Don't be too pessimistic about the proposed development as the application might fail or be modified to something more acceptable.

I don't know if the time limit for objections or representations is strict. It might be worth asking the planning people if there is any facility for a late submission given that you have only just purchased. It would cost nothing to ask.

We live and learn from our experiences.

Diamondmaker

Also if you DO get your objection to the planning in what grounds do you intend to use?
The overall development plan is likley going to favour that a disused and derelict site be developed into resedential dwelling rather than left to dilapidate dangerously.
At the end of the day a well done development behind you will be of more value to you than a site as a potential buyers will always look at the site suspicously...........perhaps as you should have done.
Grin a bear it development is part of modern Ireland and no reasonable site in an urban area is likley to be left idle.

gerard.deery

dats_right wrote: »

OP you should count yourself lucky, if you were a client of mine I would have charged you money for that advice! So you don't like my tone? Well, there you go, at least I gave you an accurate and comprehensive answer. Most of the other posts were guessing at the answer, at least I knew for certain the correct answer to your query.

To be honest, the title of your post annoyed me. Some people are far to quick to blame others, notably their solicitors for all manner of things that go wrong in the conveyancing process. If they had bothered to educate themselves about the process then they would realise that quite often the problem is of their own making.

Credit where credit is due at least you in your wisdom sought advice from this board regarding your issue. Had you not it is quite possible nay probable that you would have bad mouthed this solicitor or at least not recommended this solicitor to friends, colleagues, etc based on a mistaken belief that the solicitor had not done his job to the requisite standard. So it is quite possible that many people could have had the mistaken impression that this solicitor is somehow deficient or negligent, when the solicitor had in fact done absolutely nothing wrong. Word of mouth is extremely important to solicitors, for most firms the vast majority of new clients are the result of a positive recommondation.

These are the reasons why I was a little flippant in my original response to you. Personally, as it happens I would favour getting the correct answer to my query than getting an uncertain sugar-coated answer. But you are obviously a little bit more sensitive than myself.

Hi, I bought a house in Co Donegal last year and 3 months after the sale went through I discovered that planning permission for the dwelling was granted subject to nine conditions. Most of the conditions are standard and none of them relate to anything outside of the property. Should my solicitor have picked up on this precontract?

dats_right

Your solicitor should have read the conditions contained in the permission and satisfied himself that they had been complied with, this doesn't mean him/her inspecting the site and checking personally but does entail the solicitor requesting an Arcihtect's Certificate of Compliance with Planning from the vendor's sollicitor. This should be checked to ensure that it relates to the correct planning permission and that the architect certifies substantial compliance with all of the conditions(except the financial conditions) of that permission, in order to ensure that the financial contributions have been complied with, your solicitor would have required a letter from the Council confirming that the Roads and Services had been 'taken in charge' by the Council, or alternatively, a reciept from Council confirming that the financial conditions of the permission had been complied with.

And yes, planning enquiries are usually carried out pre-contract.

Maximilian

Assuming of course that the Permission was actually acted upon.

Imhof Tank

I agree with everything posted by Dats Right above.

OP, there would have been a planning notice on display at the site which is the subject of the planning application. The purpose of those notices is to alert interested parties/ passers by/ neighbours/ people in your position to details of pending planning applications.

How come you didnt spot the planning site notice?

dats_right

Imhof Tank wrote: »

I agree with everything posted by Dats Right above.

Thanks, although I can't remember my post from a couple of years ago (somebody had obviously rattled my cage that day though!!).

gerard.deery

I appreciate you taking the time to reply and your comments, I have spoken with other solicitors but never managed to get such a straight forward response and one which is obviously right. Would I be ripping the proverbials out of it, if I were to ask you where will I go with this problem from here?

Thanks again

Gerard

Imhof Tank

dats_right wrote: »

post from a couple of years ago

.

Oops, my mistake - somehow I didnt spot that this was an old thread brought back to life.

partyguinness

If a client is buying a 2nd hand house I will advise them to engage the services of an engineer to carry out a comprehensive survey of the property to include visiting the Planning Office to check any planning matters. If they dont then tough s**t and I wont certainly wont take any blame for it but 99.99% of clients will apprecaite they were advised before hand and wont be ass*oles about it.

sugar love

yes we bought a new house seven years ago and our sol told us to check with the council and we did and low and behold i opened a can of worms. the lovely field at the back of our house was due to have 250 houses built but i was ok with this as they were semi just a bit smaller than ours and the lovely big trees were safe so its get of your fat arse and dont expect someone else to do the work. i was very happy with who we used. people just expect way too much these days they so busy with which tv to buy or car to drive. and always quick to blame someone else.

dats_right

sugar love wrote: »

people just expect way too much these days they so busy with which tv to buy or car to drive. and always quick to blame someone else.

++++1
It's very, very rare on this forum (or any other) that such true words are spoken.

Victor

gerard.deery wrote: »

Hi, I bought a house in Co Donegal last year and 3 months after the sale went through I discovered that planning permission for the dwelling was granted subject to nine conditions. Most of the conditions are standard and none of them relate to anything outside of the property. Should my solicitor have picked up on this precontract?

Conditions like "the development must be built in accordance with the documents supplied" are pereectly normal and don't need reporting.

You're a little bit vague so we can't comment on the rest. You might get a better answer here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=876