Civil Service Overpayment - Urgent Help Needed, Please!!!!

branners69

Hi,

I work for the civil service and went on a course in Nov 2005. But rather then pay the company who ran the course they paid me!! So I was €800 up, but knowing the civil service I knew they would chase it eventually.

On the day I received it I rang the section involved and asked them what I needed to do, they said I should pay the company but I wasnt happy with that cos I was uneasy about receiving money and it not going back to the Department. I wanted a complete circle/audit trail if you get my drift!!

So they said that cos of the new accounts system I couldnt pay them cash cos they couldnt account for it. I travel a bit so I said why dont they take it from one of my travel claims, that was no good either. So I said why not deduct from my salary again no joy.

I emailed the section in Dec 05 and Jan 06 - have copies of these emails - but didnt receive any replies.

Today I get a pretty rude and harsh letter from the section asking why I didnt a) Pay the company or b) Pay the department back. I wasnt happy with doin a) and was told I couldnt do b)

I rang the section and was told today that they want the money asap, normally I would have the money on hand but I had a daughter 4 weeks ago and she needed extra days in the Intensive Care Unit which the Health Care Company wouldnt pay for.

So I explained this to them today and was told I need to pay the money asap as in the next couple of days or the Garda would be called!! This was way out of order to me. Not once have I said I wont pay, I said I'd pay the amount in 3 installments over the next 6 weeks which is putting myself under a bit of financial pressure but I dont mind just to get rid of this hassle. They created the problem never offered a solution and are now threatening me!!

Am looking for advice and a bit of help, can they call the Garda?? Is there any guidelines on how much I have to pay?? I am currently off on Certified Sick Leave at the moment, can they hassle/threaten me like this??

Cheers for any help!!

Branners

Sonnenblumen

Whats this got to do with Work/Jobs, sounds scammy to me!

Mezcita

Well they could call the Guards but that would be a bit extreme. More than likely it will lead to some type of HR related investigation. It’s very useful that you have copies of the e-mails relating to your attempt to sort this out. Primarily because if they begin disciplinary action against you, you would have those e-mails as proof.

Since you have agreed to pay the money back, they should be happy with that. They can't force you to pay the money back in one go if you don't have it. If I was you I would start documenting everything that happens from here on (phone calls, discussions with managers etc.)

parsi

Strange that a finance unit would leave it go this long. Strange that they wouldn't accept payment at the time. Strange that they'd be threatening someone with the Guards. Strange reallly all round....

branners69

Sonnenblumen wrote:

Whats this got to do with Work/Jobs, sounds scammy to me!

Well if you read my post properly you would see that it occurred in my job, so suprisingly enough I thought I might actually post in (guess where??) work & jobs!!

I dont even want to know how it sounds scammy to you!! Thankfully the other posters have been more helpful!!

Mezcita wrote:

...it will lead to some type of HR related investigation. It’s very useful that you have copies of the e-mails relating to your attempt to sort this out.

If I was you I would start documenting everything that happens from here on (phone calls, discussions with managers etc.)

Thanks for the reply Mezcita. I have no worries about any investigation cos it was a clerical error made in the section. And you say I have my arse covered by the emails!! I will document everything cos I might bring this further myself after it has been settled!!

parsi wrote:

Strange that a finance unit would leave it go this long. Strange that they wouldn't accept payment at the time. Strange that they'd be threatening someone with the Guards. Strange reallly all round....

Having worked in the Civil Service for over 10 years nothing surprises me, nothing at all. Hence why I went to them when I realised the error.
I know of one person who was overpaid 16,500 pounds at the time ( they went job sharing and were kept on full pay by accident) they are paying back so little that they will still be owing at the time they retire!! Another guy was caught pedal and cranking at his desk and he was only moved section!!

I contacted the Employee Assistance Officer today who was very helpful and contacted the manager in question to help resolve it!! As I said above I might bring this further after I return from sick leave.

parsi

branners69 wrote:

Having worked in the Civil Service for over 10 years nothing surprises me, nothing at all. Hence why I went to them when I realised the error.
I know of one person who was overpaid 16,500 pounds at the time ( they went job sharing and were kept on full pay by accident) they are paying back so little that they will still be owing at the time they retire!! Another guy was caught pedal and cranking at his desk and he was only moved section!!

Hmm.. obviously other Finance Units are a bit slacker than ours. Usually one can repay OPs at a level better suited to the payer rather than the Payee...

DublinWriter

It being the Civil Service, make sure you put your communications in writing to the relevant bod higher up the food chain.

I'd also contact your union rep and explain the situation if I were you.

luckat

Branners, personally I'd get a loan, pay the company, keep a copy of the receipt and send the original to the pay department (imho what you should have done originally).

Your daughter's intensive care fees should be claimable-back on a MED1 form, as far as I know, but check with your union on this.

My suggestion: when you send the receipt to your bosses, send an apologetic letter explaining that you had asked to reimburse the Department and been told you couldn't, and were waiting for clarification on what you should do; list the dates of your emails requesting help on this, and enclose copies.

This could be going on your personnel file, so mind how you go.

None of this is legal advice, obviously; go to profesionals for that.

branners69

parsi wrote:

Hmm.. obviously other Finance Units are a bit slacker than ours. Usually one can repay OPs at a level better suited to the payer rather than the Payee...

I wouldnt mind but we got an apparently all singing and all dancing new accounts system last year.. but I think they ran into difficulty due to decentralisation because no one seems to be able to use it!!

DublinWriter wrote:

It being the Civil Service, make sure you put your communications in writing to the relevant bod higher up the food chain.

I'd also contact your union rep and explain the situation if I were you.

I will be discussing this in more detail with all levels including unions, bosses and personnel when I get back to work.

luckat wrote:

Branners, personally I'd get a loan, pay the company, keep a copy of the receipt and send the original to the pay department (imho what you should have done originally).

Originally I had the money and wanted to pay it in a lump but they wouldnt accept it!!

luckat wrote:

Your daughter's intensive care fees should be claimable-back on a MED1 form, as far as I know, but check with your union on this.

Cheers for that, will deffo look into it.

luckat wrote:

This could be going on your personnel file, so mind how you go.

I must remember to look at my Personnel file to see what's on it after all this has been settled.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Sonnenblumen wrote:

Whats this got to do with Work/Jobs, sounds scammy to me!

hello??!!

it is fully work/jobs related. And, please try and be polite in your posting when someone is asking for help.

Branners - seeing as you are in the civil service i assume you are in a union - i suggest that you go to them - they will undoubtedly be extremely helpful in representing you.

The situation you are probably facing is that the payments unit realised that they had messed up and are trying to bully you into sorting out their problem.

There is absolutely no way they can call the guards, as you have not committed a crime.

You need someone in the organisation on your side. Tell your boss about it (payroll bean counters are notoriously scared of seniority) and get the unions involved. They are bullying you here, and you now need to start bullying them back.

(p.s. if you had a baby four weeks ago, how come you are on sick leave and not maternity leave?)

EDIT: please ignore my p.s. if you are, in fact, not a woman, but the father of a new-born daughter!

TheNog

them saying they will call the gardai is someone who is blowing hot air 'cos u have not broken any law. the gardai, if called, would have to investigate and u only need to produce ur emails hilighting the misappropriation of the money.

u are not fault here!!!!!

branners69

Roundtower2 wrote:

The situation you are probably facing is that the payments unit realised that they had messed up and are trying to bully you into sorting out their problem.

Hi Roundtower2, thats exactly what has happened..

Roundtower2 wrote:

You need someone in the organisation on your side. Tell your boss about it (payroll bean counters are notoriously scared of seniority)

Told my boss, she pretty much washed her hands of it.. People are scared when these things are coming from a height!!

Roundtower2 wrote:

They are bullying you here, and you now need to start bullying them back.

Thats why I brought in the Employee Assistance Officer.. and why I will bring it further when I get back to work!!

TheNog wrote:

u are not fault here!!!!!

Didnt feel like that they way they threatened me with the Garda, but with the help of this thread and other sources I now know its not my fault and certain amount of bullying has taken place!!

Sonnenblumen

branners69 wrote:

Well if you read my post properly you would see that it occurred in my job, so suprisingly enough I thought I might actually post in (guess where??) work & jobs!!

I dont even want to know how it sounds scammy to you!! Thankfully the other posters have been more helpful!!
.

Branners, you completed a course almost 12 months ago, and despite clear instructions to do so you did not make the payment. Because you couldn't/wouldn't?? Now a year on, the money which wasn't yours presumably spent, and now you're running looking for advice!

Even if someone else made an error you are also culpable and you know it. Why did you do nothing for so long, and now the chickens are coming home, albeit during a bad period for you. From their side they see someone who has received money resulting form some other Civil Servant couldn't/didn't do things correctly, pocketed the money and in typical Civil Service expediency, they have discovered 12 months on, 'misappropriated money'.

No doubt if the Guards come on the scene they'll also tell you, you should have known better and acted sooner!!

The mind boggles to think what day jobs you guys have!

branners69

Sonnenblumen wrote:

Branners, you completed a course almost 12 months ago, and despite clear instructions to do so you did not make the payment. Because you couldn't/wouldn't?? Now a year on, the money which wasn't yours presumably spent, and now you're running looking for advice!

Even if someone else made an error you are also culpable and you know it. Why did you do nothing for so long, and now the chickens are coming home, albeit during a bad period for you. From their side they see someone who has received money resulting form some other Civil Servant couldn't/didn't do things correctly, pocketed the money and in typical Civil Service expediency, they have discovered 12 months on, 'misappropriated money'.

No doubt if the Guards come on the scene they'll also tell you, you should have known better and acted sooner!!

The mind boggles to think what day jobs you guys have!

Thanks Sonnenblumen, appreciate the advice!!

Amadán cearnaithe;)

Sonnenblumen

branners69 wrote:

Thanks Sonnenblumen, appreciate the advice!!

Amadán cearnaithe;)

Well A Chara, at least the money in my pocket is my own!!:cool:

branners69

Sonnenblumen wrote:

Well A Chara, at least the money in my pocket is my own!!:cool:

Chíoch, so is mine!!

Mod please close this thread so Sonnenbummen can advice some other unfortunate person who will have to read his neanderthal posts!!

Dundhoone

wow branners, somebody puts the otherside of the case to you and you dont like it,so lock the thread mod?
Sounds like the decision you made back in nov2005 when you were told what to do with the 800 by your accounts section, and made your own decision not too.

Did it not occur to you that all you had to do was get a letter or mail from that person in accounts instructing you to pay the company and you would have had your back covered?

Sounds like you made a bad call and now feel "threatened" and "bullied" but isnt that down to you making a decision that wasnt yours to make?

It seems like a mish mash of overreaction and bad communication, on both sides. Sort out some repayment scheme with them and get on with more important things.