Super System

Sinfonia

What do people think of Super System/Super System 2?

Seems to be that when people on the forum are recommending books, they tend to mention Harrington and Sklansky a fair bit, but don't seem to mention Brunson.

fixer

it's very thick, lot's of words/dollar value there.

El Stuntman

the original SS reads like it was written by an illiterate (if that makes any sense) so wearing my literary snob hat, I don't like it

jimbling

SumGuy wrote:

What do people think of Super System/Super System 2?

Seems to be that when people on the forum are recommending books, they tend to mention Harrington and Sklansky a fair bit, but don't seem to mention Brunson.

they mention Harrington and Sklansky because they teach you the basics. Sklanskys' "Theory of Poker" should probably be your first stop. Then (if playing stts / mtts) move on to the Harrington books. These are excellent for basic ABC tournament play.
Super System is a bit more advanced. In the sense that it teaches you to play the super aggressive style. To do this successfully you need to feel very comfortable with the basics as well as needing very good hand reading skills.

I'm saying this from experience. When I started out in poker I read sklansky and harrington1.
I was doing really well (at low stakes .25/.50).
I then read super system 2 and went on a mass losing streak. I just wasnt good enough yet for that style of poker. I had to re-read harrington1 and I also bought volume 2.
About 8 months later I gave it another go..... then re-read it. It's a brilliant book when you know how to use the advice correctly.

luckylucky

I think Super System 2 is a good book, however people rightly mention Sklansky and Harrington before it, particularly when it comes to Hold Em as Super System 2 thouch a very large book covers a fair few of the modern variations of poker so it doesn't have the same detailed focus that Harringtons' books have in that game.

There is also a bit of bad feeling out there for the book too I think - Doyle Brunson has a lot of filler in there that has got nothing to do with poker just like he had in the 1st book, he has a whole chapter to do with his life story and also plugs Doyles Room Poker quite a bit. Still to be fair it's a big book and most of it has got to do with poker and so it could be rightly argued that it's still great value for money.

As jimbling says SS2 No Limit Hold Em does teach a more aggressive style. Jimbling also rightly cautions people who haven't been playing the game that long from trying this. Imo the aggressive style in general is the winning way, but depending on lots of game factors it sometimes needs to be toned right down, in general especially at the lower limit games where people look you up too often Doyles' very aggressive strategy will more often than not blow up in your face.

So basically I like the book - it covers many games so if you want to try something different from hold em you can get a grounding in games such as omaha, 7 card stud, triple draw etc. I would however agree that HOH and Sklansky's books would be a bigger priority for the 1st time buyer.

Lazare

I think it's over rated and over priced.

It's a big fat book, so obviously you think you're gettting great value for your €44.
Almost a hundred pages later you're still reading about how much of a beautiful family Doyle has.
I mean, I like the man, he's a legend in his own underpants but, when I give him €44, I'm not caring a lot about who his lovely daughter married and how many bedrooms their quaint little house has.

There is obviously a lot of good stuff in there, (his advice on how to play small connectors for one), but there's a lot of page filling bull**** too.

It's inconsistent, e.g, I opened up Todd Brunson's section on eight or better, looking to learn the game from a total beginners perspective, but found it close to impossible, he aims at people trying to improve their game, which is fair enough.
Then, Jennifer Harman on Limit Hold'em starts her section explaining the absolute fundamentals of Hold'em - " a little puck, or button moves clockwise around the table ", I mean, Come on. Although the rest of her section is quite good.

The book is still a must have, but I think you could condense it to a quarter of it's size and lose nothing of importance. The nonsense and page filling crap really annoyed me about it, not to mention the 25 page advert for the WPT.

mewso

It's certainly not the Bible as ESPN likes to think of it. Alot of boardsies have said they got alot from the other chapters on the other game types.

Ste05

musician wrote:

Alot of boardsies have said they got alot from the other chapters on the other game types.

Some of the other chapters are excellent IMO, I actually thought Todd Brunson's section was very good, I never read Harman's chapter so can't comment on it.

I also agree that it's a little advanced for beginners, and to begin with it cost me a fair few $$$ as it was only the second book I ever read (following on from Hellmuth's one, now that's some beginning, eh... :eek: :eek:) and I was probably playing like a demented mole on amphetamines.

ianmc38

The PLO and O/8 sections are good.

The HE section is alot of Brunson patting himself on the back.

Rnger

I'm interested in all aspects of poker (as are most people here i imagine..) so i dont mind reading the waffle. Its mildly entertaining, Caro's chapter for example. I especially like the triple draw chapter. Ive never played triple draw and probably never will but im still looking foward to getting dealt quad 2's and making that big complicated bluff! After being shockingly bad at omaha at first, i wanted to be good at adapting to new games. I found super system good for learning everything BUT holdem.

ianmc38

I thought Caros chapter was utter bullshít. Some of his tells are ridiculous.

sikes

jen harmans limit section is quality, as i think has been referred to in a previos discussion of this type

mewso

ianmc38 wrote:

I thought Caros chapter was utter bullshít. Some of his tells are ridiculous.

This man has the nuts. Beware.

Ste05

musician wrote:

This man has the nuts. Beware.

Duh!!! He's looking away and protecting his cards, what else could he possibly have???? :cool:

Muso you disappoint me...

valor

brunson - if you win alot early in the session you can chase you draws later on even when not getting the correct price becasue you are 'freerolling'

also, if you win a big pot you MUST play the next hand

what a retard

Dub13

Lazare wrote:

It's a big fat book, so obviously you think you're gettting great value for your €44. Almost a hundred pages later you're still reading about how much of a beautiful family Doyle has.

LOL....its been a couple of years since I read it but what you say is true.He did have an interesting life to say the least.

fuzzbox

ianmc38 wrote:

The PLO and O/8 sections are good.

You're crazy - they both stink (IMO).

El Stuntman

ianmc38 wrote:

I thought Caros chapter was utter bullshít. Some of his tells are ridiculous.

try reading his own book in its entirety....I tried out his theories in my home game (€10 rebuy, social game) and had to rebuy 9 times!!

although the 1970s fashion shots almost make it worthwhile

jimbling

caro's book is a complete waste of space on my book shelf.

Ste05

Agreed, although the book has some class pictures... a la Muso's above

El Stuntman

jimbling wrote:

caro's book is a complete waste of space on my book shelf.

it fulfills a valuable function for mine - I prop it underneath to stop the damn thing falling over :rolleyes:

honestly Harringtons 2 pages worth on tells are worth more than Caro's whole book

El Stuntman

now then children....how many cards short of a full deck is this man??

ianmc38

fuzzbox wrote:

You're crazy - they both stink (IMO).

You reckon? I thought they both had some extremely useful concepts and explain some fundamentals of hands that are overplayed in both games.

The best again IMHO source for O8 info available is from gregery from 2+2. His homepage is www.08poker.com

hotspur

If it's advice for modern day NLHE you want then SS2 isn't great, or even good to be honest. However Todd Brunson's Stud8 chapter is fantastic and I thought Bobby Baldwin's Omaha8 was great (at least for an Omaha neophyte like me), and Jen Harman's limit hold em chapter is good. These are players who are at the very top of their games, evry page they write is worth about 100 of a Caro or a Sklanksy. I can't understand why SS2 doesn't include a stud chapter but Chip Reese's chapter in SS1 is an excellent introduction to the game. A section on razz would have been helpful too (and not just cause I lost 4 figures playing it last night). I found the PL Omaha chapter lousy and I haven't read Negreanu's chapter on triple draw.

So SS2 good for Stud8, Omaha8, Limit hold em, maybe triple draw
Not so good for NLHE, PLOmaha, and the 1st 6 chapters of random stuff.
Which still makes it pretty much the best book on overall poker forms there is.

jimbling

hotspur wrote:

Not so good for NLHE

Not sure why you think this... it's the only book I've come across that teaches you the necessary strategys to win at high stakes poker.

All Harrington books are good for is ABC low level MTT/STTs (don't get me wrong, I really learned a lot from them and would advise every beginner to read them)


Basically, what I'm asking is what other books are out there for intermediate/advanced poker players?

phantom_lord

jimbling wrote:

caro's book is a complete waste of space on my book shelf.

I remember at the book signing in trinity I talked a guy outta buying that book in front of caro. Caro didn't seem too pleased when I said it was a load of ****e.

hotspur

jimbling wrote:

Not sure why you think this... it's the only book I've come across that teaches you the necessary strategys to win at high stakes poker.
All Harrington books are good for is ABC low level MTT/STTs (don't get me wrong, I really learned a lot from them and would advise every beginner to read them)
Basically, what I'm asking is what other books are out there for intermediate/advanced poker players?

Well the overriding theme of aggression is of course a positive thing to take from Doyle but I don't like some of his analysis, which isn't to say that he isn't a great player but he's not a great communicator of whatever it is that makes / made him great. I've never read any book that would make someone succeed at higher stakes NL cash games because it's more about players and your character than cards and strategy.

jimbling

hotspur wrote:

Well the overriding theme of aggression is of course a positive thing to take from Doyle but I don't like some of his analysis, which isn't to say that he isn't a great player but he's not a great communicator of whatever it is that makes / made him great. I've never read any book that would make someone succeed at higher stakes NL cash games because it's more about players and your character than cards and strategy.

I know where your coming from... there's plenty times I was reading and thought... WTF. But you, the reader, needs to differentiate and use what he can from it. This may mean modifying the strategies slightly.
I have never read any poker strategy related book where I agreed with everything.

Obviously theres no book that can make someone succeed at higher stakes.... but brunsons book and all his advice is more towards the higher stakes bracket... and it just doesnt work at the lower levels. (well, I couldnt make it work anyway )