MCPs

Duff Man Jr.

I have done two years of a Comp Systems degree in UL, but failed the 3rd year so I was going to do a years course in IT support and come out with a ord degree. Anyway today I was told the course was off due to small numbers.

I heard that getting a few Mcps is the way to go, would these be worth looking into for somone with no formal qualification? or are they seen as a futher study oppertunity for someone already working? How highly regarded are they withen the industry?

Anyone got any other ideas?

Thanks,
Shane

ntlbell

Everyone will have their own opinion on this.

In my eyes they're worthless they prove _nothing_ MS could make them worthwhile by changing how they test.

In any company I've worked in they were worthless (Including MS)

Now if I'm in a situtation were I have to hire I pretty much ignore them on someone's CV

For some companies they're the be all and end all you must have them.

These are companies you generally don't want to be working in anyway.

Stephen

In my experience its the opposite. Employers seem to like them a lot -- depending of course what kind of role you're going for; i.e. having an MCSA probably wouldn't do you any good applying for a software development or unix admin job, but would be good to have when applying for windows admin jobs.
Dunno how they'd view having just MCP's with no other qualifications (degree, other trade certs etc) though...

Static M.e.

I don't agree.

But first off I think you should finish your formal education, see if you can repeat or transfer the years attended to another college (I’ve no idea how this could or could not work)

IMO you will really regret not having your degree in years to come, their are lots of really good 1 year masters course out their at the moment, doing some top notch stuff which of course are only available to people with degree's. I know so many guys that are going back to college now to get degrees or Masters. IT is constant study. Seriously I would get something from the College.

Now back to the MCPs. I’m afraid I’m going to have to disagree with ntlbell completely (I’m not arguing with you in particular Ntlbell just with the opinions in general )

While the MS exams can be passed by a monkey with some testking this can be said of all Comp based exams, you can get study guides for them all.

I agree that MS could make them better if they included allot more practical work (Akin to Cisco) log in, make a change, locate a problem, troubleshoot a service, create a domain, Configure DNS etc. That would be great but I still think the monkeys would have study guides for them all. MS exams at the moment are more about understanding the actual question they are asking rather than if you really know your stuff. They use a lot of wordplay and double negatives and catch you out on stuff that you know.

I think allot of people judge them far too harshly just because you have an MCP in Active directory for instance doesn't make you an AD guru.. you can fix any problem at the drop of a hat.. To me it just means that you have an understanding of how AD works, you know the theory behind it which you then build on to solve or trouble shoot a problem.

MCPs are far from worthless though, they can show/tell you allot about a person, first off that they are willing, want to learn and believe in further educating themselves. Also as I mentioned before that they have an understanding of the topic they are certified in. I wouldn’t expect expert knowledge but I would certainly expect them to know the theory. How things work etc.

Also MCPs help you to sell yourself / Cv they WILL get you job interviews and allow you to charge more for your services than not having them (Starting off) Half the battle in any job is getting the interview.

As Ntlbell mentioned

For some companies they're the be all and end all you must have them..

Be all and end all. They love them, they look for them and hire on the basis of them and they pay on the basis of them.

These are companies you generally don't want to be working in anyway

This might be fine for those people who have a choice but most people just want an interesting job and it’s a bonus if it pays well.

Bottom line. MCPs will get you interviews and get you more pay for the majority of the companies out their, they will help you get jobs and allot of the industry do regard Certs highly. Do not however be of the assumption that "Hey, I just got my MCSE you must now pay me 5k more.." they do not guarantee you a job or higher pay. They just help when you have to look for a new job.

Personally I continue to study for MCPs (Certs) because at this stage I use them as mile stones if you will. I find it hard just to study IT in general so I study topics that interest me. I get the Material and gear myself up by aiming towards an exam which forces me to focus on pieces of study which I don’t particularly like. The MCP exam format makes me have a broad understanding of that MCP and not just the pieces that interest me.

Duff Man Jr. For you I really think you should finish your college education. It will defiantly stand to you in later years and you won’t regret it. On saying that yes you can get work without a degree with the help of MCPs and experience

Just my 2cents

Duff Man Jr.

Thanks for the replies guys, the problem with going back to collage is I have wait till next June/July next year. What I think i'll do is try to get a few between now and xmas, and in the new year try to get a real job. When it comes around to applying to collages I can see where i'm at in terms of if I like what i'm doing and long term prospects etc... and go to collage or say fcuk it and keep working.

trout

dude ... go back to college ... you may regret it in years to come, if you quit now.

i did the same thing ... i quit 2 years into a degree ... tooled around, got a job, and over time got a bunch of MCP's, which helped me get interviews for jobs alright, but lower level jobs than lads with degrees could compete for

after slowly getting frustrated with opportunities and payscales, despite MCSE and CNE qualifications, i decided there was nothing for it but go back to college at night, and finish the degree

i can promise you ... it's much easier to finish a full time degree as a full time student, then trying to hold down a job, and finish a degree part time at night several years later (wife,kids,mortgage yadayadayada)

short term pain, long term gain

i hire and fire for a sizeable IT section, and MCP's do have a value ... i prefer to see 'traditional' qualifications too, MCP's can be the icing on the cake

don't rush a decision ... best of luck!