Fixing a "bottom race" to a Carbon Fibre Frame

makospeed

Not too sure if I’m using the correct terminology, anyway some time ago the steering on this bike started “sticking” when you turned same. I dropped the bike into cycleways who initially thought that the headset bearings had collapsed but this could be fixed. While they were removing the head stem, shocks etc they disturbed the bottom “race” when taking out the bearing. See attached pic, the bottom race, the thing with a sliver ring & black “grease guard” slightly detached itself from the carbon fibre frame. At that point cycleways informed me that there was nothing they could do, they have known of examples of this to occur with carbon fibre frames & suggested that this issue would be covered under warranty, as it is a manufacturing issue.

Anyway, EPX blamed the bike shop, which may be unfair & would not fix same but after much discussion EPX gave me an upgrade on the model for a nominal amount. I am now left with this frame, a bit long winded question but I thought I’d try to investigate if I could get it fixed here, can anyone recommend a cycle shop that would attempt fixing/glueing the bottom race back to the frame or am I wasting my time.

thanks

PS I have attempted to upload pic but continously failing, pic is below max size

Morgan

Could you just use epoxy to glue it back in place?

makospeed

Thanks Morgan, I've never heard of that glue before but I shall do some research and see if this is runner, I shall post those pics tonight

Thank again

Trojan

makospeed wrote:

PS I have attempted to upload pic but continously failing, pic is below max size

Try imageshack.us/

Idleater

Morgan wrote:

Could you just use epoxy to glue it back in place?

I would not glue it.

Glue might react with the glue in the Carbon Fibre and make it brittle.

Post a picture and give us a look at it. I replaced a couple of headsets in my time and I know they are a bugger to fit sometimes. It might need some gentle *ahem* persuasion back into place.

I am assuming of course that you are not stuck for a bike and the frame is essentially yours to mess with???

L.

Mucco

Seeing a picture would be useful.
It sounds like the actual head tube is damaged, otherwise why replace the frame? Normally the headset is just pressed into place on the head tube. I think this is the same with a carbon bike. It's straightforward for a shop to do which leads me to believe there's a bigger problem.

M

makospeed

Yes nereid, I can pretty much mess with the frame, the word doc is an overview pic with the remaining pics showing more detail. The bottom "race" may look ok but it is loose. Also I just noticed that the black "grease gaurd" is slightly dented as if it was hit back onto the stem which dented part of the gaurd. I dont know if I need to replace same. Any comments welcome. If you wish I could get more closeup shots

Thanks

makospeed

M, the Carbon fibre frame at the point of the bottom headset looks ok, as in the carbon is not broken. In regard to replacing the frame, EPX themselves never saw the frame, except for pics I sent. And given that support services are in Australia, it was either send the frame back (which I brought back 4 years ago), incur the transportation costs with no certain outcome or take their offer of a brand new model for a fifth of the retail value. But again you could be right, I'm unsure to be honest.

M

Idleater

OK.

(sweet looking frame by the way - it would be nice to get it up and running).

There appear to be 4 parts - two silver parts closest to the head tube and two black parts attached to them.
The black parts are the headset and I am guessing that the silver parts are some sort of metal insert between the CF and the Headset so it attaches firmly.

First question - the top headset (black) race is removed yes?

Next question is it the bottom (black) race that is "damaged" or the silver bit?
---hopefully it is the black.

Thirdly, if you look down through the head tube (top to bottom) can you see where the silver and black pieces are attached?

The way I removed my headset was to shape a piece of wood so that it just fitted down the head tube and I could "tap" it with a hammer around in a circle to press out the bottom race. I did this on steel and aluminium frames but not on CF.

Let us know what the situation is with these questions and then we can progress further...

L.

rubadub

nereid wrote:

Glue might react with the glue in the Carbon Fibre and make it brittle.

There are specific glues for carbon fibre.
google
"carbon fiber adhesive" -american spelling
and
"carbon fibre adhesive"

Idleater

rubadub wrote:

There are specific glues for carbon fibre.
google
"carbon fiber adhesive" -american spelling
and
"carbon fibre adhesive"

I know, I just said not to bother thinking about glueing anything before it has been established what needs to come out, what has to go back in, what else has to go in and what needs to move after it is in.

If something is glued with CF glue that is not supposed to be glued, you just end up with a piece of modern art.

L.

makospeed

OK

yes there are 4 parts - two silver parts closest to the head tube and two black parts attached to them. - the black parts are the WTB Momentum Grease Guard Headset (the bottom race is damaged), I saw one on ebay for 24.99GBP. You are correct the silver aluminium section is between the CF and the Headset so it attaches firmly.

First question - the top headset (black) race is removed yes? correct yes

2nd question: both are damaged. The bottom race is dented and this justs needs to be replaced with a new one. However, the difficult one, the silver aluminium section has dislodged from the cf. Now I just got an e-mail back from EPX who said the following: "If the silver aluminium section is the piece that has come out epoxy is fine".

Thirdly, if you look down through the head tube (top to bottom) can you see where the silver and black pieces are attached? I will have to check this tonight but i think the answer is yes and I might try to take a pic as well

Many thanks again, this is great help

thanks

A

Morgan

If I'm understanding correctly you'll need to do the following:

- Remove the lower headset cup from the silver insert. This will be tricky since it's not firmly attached to the frame.
- Buy a new headset (the WTB Momentum is a bit crap). I'd recommend something with cartridge bearings - this should avoid having to replace the headset again. E.g. FSA Orbit XL II
- Glue the silver bit back in place
- Install the new headset carefully.
- Ride your bike

insight driver

If it were me, I'd take the the new frame. It would be all shiny and new, and unbroken.. then I would take it to a different shop. Although finger pointing is going on, at this point, one can only conjecture on what happened. Sounds to me, it may have broken on you and this is what the click sound was about. This being the case the manufacturer is getting out of the warranty issue. You might fight it with the manufacturer, saying you felt the clicking, and by rocking the front wheel back and forth, the headset seemed tight, but you took it to the shop anyway to make sure.

Sorry to see your frame broken in such a way, but things like this happen.