Just something to get vocals heard at band practices/ shed gigs.

OLP

Hi, we practice in our drummers shed, sharing it with another band, both bands are all mates so we're looking to get some sort of small PA system to get vocals heard cause right now we're putting mics through 10/15W bass amps and it's just not loud enough. Our budget is roughly around 450, I know it's not alot, but we only need something small. I've got my eye on this but I dunno if it'll work.

http://www.thomann.de/ie/the_box_pa110a.htm Speaker

http://www.thomann.de/ie/the_tmix_pm400.htm Mixer

Will that work?

Eoin Madsen

Well, that's an active speaker and an active mixer. You'd need to pair a passive speaker with a powered mixer like that. Tbh, that speaker is a little low-powered anyway, whether active or passive. You'll also need a stand for it or something to get it to at least head height.

I would suggest this:
http://www.thomann.de/ie/yamaha_mg102_8kanal_mischpult.htm
and
http://www.thomann.de/ie/the_box_ma1520_aktivmonitor.htm

A monitor speaker is also what you'll be facing in a gig situation, so should prepare you a little better for the real deal.

Paladin

If you are sharing this setup, and its just for vocals to practice with in a shed then for about E229:

http://www.thomann.de/ie/tmix_the_box_pm400_pa_set_1.htm

Its not world class but for practice in a shed? Chalk it down.

OLP

Paladin's suggestion looks perfect for the job! Thanks alot.

Eoin Madsen

Not enough power to compete comfortably with a drum kit in close quarters, imo. But tbh, I thought my suggestion was a bit cheap and nasty.

OLP

Well both the bands are pretty heavy with energetic, loud vocalists. The thing is the whole active/passive thing confuses me so I just want something simple.

Eoin Madsen

It's simple enough really. The active part of the setup is basically the amplifier. Sometimes it's in the mixer, sometimes it's in the speaker. And sometimes it's on its own. The bottom line is that you only need one amplifier in the system.

Active mixer + passive speaker = good
Passive mixer + active speaker = good
Passive mixer + passive speaker = no sound
Active mixer + active speaker = possible fire

A louder vocalist wouldn't help, the power of that system just isn't high enough to provide enough clean headroom - in my opinion. I think the 250 watt active monitor is a better way to go. It'll be easier to set up, easier to move around, and you'll get less feedback with a monitor wedge than you would with a speaker on a stand.

Savman

Vocal monitors should be upwards of 200w, whichever config you go with. If the speakers are going to be further away from the Vocalist then you'll need more power, simple as.

Make sure you get 10" or 12" speakers as they work best for live vocals. With a budget of €450 the suggestions you've received so far as probably as good as you're gonna get.

OLP

Right, I've decided to go with Eoin Madsen's original suggestion, only one thing, this may seem stupid,but which is the speaker out on that mixer? :

OLP

Right, so this is what I'm looking at



Anything I've gotten wrong?

Eoin Madsen

That would work.

What kind of mic are you using? Ideally, I'd suggest you use an XLR to XLR for the mic - it'll be a higher input, and will pick up less noise.

You might also find it simpler to get your hands on a jack-to-jack cable for the connection to the speaker. Which will work just as well in this case. If you can get a balanced jack lead it should work a little better.

Eoin Madsen

OLP wrote:

only one thing, this may seem stupid,but which is the speaker out on that mixer? :

Probably the one you've drawn a line from. It'll be clearly marked when you see it up close - usually as "main mix" or "master mix" with an L and an R jack output. You could use either L or R.

OLP

Some ****e on we got in town, can't remember the make, we have an XLR to Jack lead already cos we were using the bass amps, would XLR to XLR be better? I don't think there's a jack input to that speaker, looking at the 360 view.

Eoin Madsen

XLR to XLR for the mic would be better alright.

Just looking there myself - it's actually just a hybrid xlr/jack input. The jack goes in the middle of it. It's mentioned in the spec of it as well. It makes no difference if you use jack to jack or jack to male xlr, but jack to male xlr leads are harder to come by. If you can get a balanced lead it would be the best-case scenario, but don't worry too much about that.

OLP

I'll be odering everything off thomann so I can get any leads from there, whats a balanced lead?

Eoin Madsen

Here's a balanced jack lead: http://www.thomann.de/ie/cae_1761075_audiokabel.htm
They don't seem to do any other types, just that kind in different lengths (that's the longest).

Balanced leads like TRS jack leads or XLR leads have an extra connection. They use phase inversion to reduce noise and interference picked up along the cable run.

david

One of these would be better to use as a monitor, with the option of pole mounting and picking up another one if you expand, the specs look better too
http://www.thomann.de/ie/the_box_pa203_15a.htm

That has a built in Mic pre too so you wont need a mixer for the moment if you want to just run one mic

Eoin Madsen

The spec is not particularly better. Those speakers don't sit on the ground, the sides are curved.

OLP

Hmm.. the box one is better on our wallets, and seems to be just as loud. and would leave money for another mic.

Eoin Madsen

They're both made by the same company. I would have recommended the other if I thought it were better for the task. But it's your wallet.

david

If you wanna get a full cheap semi decent PA, I'd suggest these if you can get the money, I think it has everything you need

david

If you want to use them as active tops in the future, then the ones i linked are better, the wattage is low but i think they're better specc'd overall, biamped 200+50w

Eoin Madsen

In fairness, you don't need a PA to practice, you need a monitor. Aiming a PA at yourself is a scenario that is never going to arise in any gigging situation - and for good cause. At the very least I'd suggest putting one of those foh speakers on the ground and trying to balance it on something to aim it upwards.

They have different cabling, so if that's the direction you're going make sure you update your cable buying plans.

david

Well no point playing a gig with a monitor as the primary FOH amplification either . AFAIK they both have mic pre's no?

Eoin Madsen

Venues already have speakers. If anything, you're a hell of a lot more likely to need to bring a monitor to a gig than speakers for the foh. Worrying about a live rig (or more likely, not) is a whole different issue, and on this budget I don't think it should enter into consideration at all anyway.

david

Yeah, but a lot of venues I play have far worse PA's than that. Its shameful, did they not have an active the box install in Fibber Magees? Heard it was decent sound.

OLP

Right... now yis have just confused me. We're not botherd about a live set-up, just amplifying vocals for practices.

david

Well then get the first active top i linked and throw a shoe box or something under it to tilt it up. Get a mic and an XLR cable and you should have everything for < €250

!_Brian_!

Go with the monitor option I'd say. Thats what we did. We only have one vocalist so we just bought a 250 watt powered moniter and plugged the mic direct into that, worked fine.

OLP

Ah, we have 3 vocalists and we'd prefere 3 seperate mics, thats why we'd need a mixer, or that Box speaker cos it has 3 line in's.

david

You cant plug a mic into a line in. Well you can but it'll be seriously low in volume, if you have three vocalists then a single monitor is far from ideal.