Abolish the Back Door?

gbh

I know the back door system throws up a lot more games and revenue for the GAA and is supposed to give weaker teams a second shot at the championship, but is it really fair, or legal even. Does it not make a farce out of the championship, ie a team can lose and then still win the All-Ireland.

Also it doesn't seem to benefit the weaker teams. Fair enough, there have been some successes such as Fermanagh and Sligo in the last few years, but for most other weaker teams it is only misery postponed.

I think the back door system should be replaced with an A and a B championship. The losers in the A championship should go into the B championship. This would reflect that they were beaten already and also that winners of matches shouldn't have their efforts, training, etc wiped away by a defeat to a team that lost before.

Wishbone Ash

gbh wrote:

or legal even.

Can't see haw it could be illegal. The GAA is a private organisation and are entitled to arrange their competitions as they wish.

Waylander

When the back door system was introduced I was pretty strongly oppossed to it as I thought the championship should be a knock out event. However, I have since changed my opinion on this dramatically. I disagree that no teams have benefited GBH, Westmeath have won there first Leinster Championship ever, and improving in the previous couple of years, year on year in the Qualifiers. As you have already said, Fermanagh and Sligo have also benefitted, as have Leitrim over the last couple of years. It could even be argued that Laois owe some of there change in fortunes to the back door system, as they too have had a dramatic turn around in recent years. Are you sure you are not still bitter about Mayo losing to Kerry, who had already lost a game and would not have been in under the old system?

This year we have also seen Louth progress, and Wexford have much improved in the last few years. I think the new system has been hugely successful and would hope that it is not dramatically changed in the foreseeable future.

Wishbone Ash

Waylander wrote:

This year we have also seen Louth progress, and Wexford have much improved in the last few years. I think the new system has been hugely successful and would hope that it is not dramatically changed in the foreseeable future.

I agree. I don't think anyone expected the weaker counties to go all the way but a least they have a chance of getting a few games instead of being knocked out on their first game as previously. It would have been more difficult to motivate any young lads (with weaker counties) to play in the old system knowing that they may get one game.

AthAnRi

I think it's good but not flawless. Overall it's great for the supporters and players to get a second chance to see/play for their teams.

Maybe the Idea of giving teams that win their provintial championships such a long break is a bit unfair as they end up getting rusty when they play the winners of the qualifiers, some of whom may have had 3-4 games extra which is a big advantage.

It was a bit unfair in the old format when teams would put in a massive effort in training etc only to be knocked out in the first match. At least now they get another bite at the cherry.

The Rooster

gbh wrote:

I know the back door system throws up a lot more games and revenue for the GAA and is supposed to give weaker teams a second shot at the championship, but is it really fair, or legal even.

Bizarre to say its not fair or not legal.

Everyone gets one shot at winning their provincial title.

Then everyone gets one shot at winning the All Ireland, with a slight advantage given to those who do well in their provincial championship as they enter at a later stage.

Perfectly fair. Perfectly legal.

Thankfully there is no chance of ever going back to the old system where you could lose your first game and your summer is over.

gbh

The Rooster wrote:

Bizarre to say its not fair or not legal.

Everyone gets one shot at winning their provincial title.

Then everyone gets one shot at winning the All Ireland, with a slight advantage given to those who do well in their provincial championship as they enter at a later stage.

Perfectly fair. Perfectly legal.

Thankfully there is no chance of ever going back to the old system where you could lose your first game and your summer is over.

I agree 100% that when a team loses for example their first game that they should get a second chance or at least another game. But I think there is a proposal now that division four teams would go straight to the Tommy Murphy cup after losing their first game. I don't see the merit of someone like London playing Meath and although they might run them close they might never actually beat them. It doesn't do much for the morale of London football.

Sometimes when a good team like Tyrone etc lose in the first round of the championship, it could be because they are underprepared, etc. Part of the advantage of competitions like the AI should be that you can catch out a big team on a bad day and make your chances of winning the AI better. Cork for example beat Kerry this year in Munster and had to face them again in the AI and lost. I don't see the fairness in that. The idea of beating someone fair and square seems to be gone, and instead its more like the best of three.

Carcharodon

gbh wrote:

Cork for example beat Kerry this year in Munster and had to face them again in the AI and lost. I don't see the fairness in that. The idea of beating someone fair and square seems to be gone, and instead its more like the best of three.

Thats all this thread is about, Kerry winning AI, its time to move on, jealousy will get you no where :rolleyes:

Blackjack

Nothing wrong with the backdoor in my opinion, in fact I think it's a great thing for the game, and is probably responsible for the resurgance of interest in the Game. If you happen to be from a smaller county, then you're no longer automatically out in the first round - Fermanagh 2 years ago is a prime example.
It also throws up games you are otherwise unlikely to ever see (Mayo vs Laois - last time they played in the championship was 1936 All Ireland Final).

It's not flawless, but for teams like London who have fellas turn up week in week out for training only to be turfed out after 1 game is hardly the best motivator.

Benedict XVI

The current back door system is not perfect but I can’t see any reason to reverting to a knockout system.
As many have said, over the past 6 years of the backdoor many smaller teams have had relatively good runs in the championship which has helped the game in that county. Look at Longford this year, ask the players and fans would they prefer to be out of the championship in May after a 2pt loss to Dublin or would they prefer to send the whole summer traveling the country beating the likes of Derry until losing out to Kerry in late July, I’d say most would select the latter.

I do not however agree with this newer system of matching provinces at the quarter final stage and continuing it to the semi-finals, like happened this year and last where Kerry meet Cork in the Semi-finals. They should make the quarters and semis open draws and keep teams that have already meet apart if possible all the way to the final. I know that won’t happen as they modified the system to introduce the provincial paring at the quarter final stage in 2005 to prevent a single province final.

gbh wrote:

I think the back door system should be replaced with an A and a B championship. The losers in the A championship should go into the B championship. This would reflect that they were beaten already and also that winners of matches shouldn't have their efforts, training, etc wiped away by a defeat to a team that lost before.

What value would playing in the B championship be to the big teams, Kerry, Cork, Dublin, Mayo etc.

The Rooster

gbh wrote:

Cork for example beat Kerry this year in Munster and had to face them again in the AI and lost. I don't see the fairness in that. The idea of beating someone fair and square seems to be gone, and instead its more like the best of three.

Cork beat Kerry in the Munster championship. Fair and square. They have the cup and medals to prove it. But Cork knew and Kerry knew and everyone else knew that it did not mean Kerry were out of the running for the All Ireland. Nothing unfair about it.

blackbelt

I think most people would not like to see the back-door system abolished.I for one wouldn't.As a Dublin supporter,its easy to believe that Dublin would have a better chance of winning Sam going straight into a semi-final with the likes of Kerry,Laois,Galway and Donegal defeated and out...while every Dublin fan would like to see Dublin progress that far,I feel the backdoor system makes the AI more interesting with more trips to Croke Park.

I think a team who are AI contenders should (having won their provincial title) be able to come back and beat the team they had already defeated before.Thats what makes champions.Thats what made Kerry champions too.They showed that even though they had lost to Cork a few weeks previous that they are the better side.I believed that Cork should have had Kerrys number in the semi-final this year having already defeated them,which is a very difficult task but the backdoor system gives teams a chance to prove themselves again.

Look at Longford,Fermanagh,Sligo,Laois and Donegal and Kerry this year.They came back to prove that they are better than some teams and gave us brilliant matches.Kerry gave us brilliant matches against Armagh and Cork while Longford upset Derry...now after seeing how Longford have progressed I will use the term "upset Derry" very lightly now.

Even though Longford narrowly lost to Dublin this year,they proved themselves in that match.They also proved themselves against Waterford and Tipperary and especially against Derry.The backdoor system helped that team to progress and gave them a platform to build on for next year.

I know its disheartening to lose and be knocked out by a team that has already lost before but I feel that a team should be given a chance to prove they are contenders by beating other teams and then beating those who are in direct contention ie those who win their provinces.

GBH I know you are upset but the backdoor system benefits the GAA,fans and the game itself.Mayo were simply not good enough.They were beaten by a team who came back from heavy criticism by the media and fans and proved they are the best.This happened Dublin and Armagh last year but thats the heartache of football....its not exactly 100% fair but there are reasons behind it.Mayo benefitted through the backdoor last year as did Dublin in 2003 and 2004.Its a fair system.

jacool

look back at Kerry's litany of All-Ireland successes.
Seeding meant they played Cork in the Munster final, after hammering someone in the semis in Munster.
Then play a provincial winner, beat them and you're in the final.
Win that and you have an All-Ireland, on the back of three games !!

This new system is much better, for everyone.

As someone else said, why bust a gut all year to lose one game and be out before The Sunday Game even starts ? (I know I'm ignoring club games here which I am totally ignorant of !)

Rock on the back door, and if there's one improvement to be made then it could be to draw the quarters so that you cannot meet a team you played in your province.

blackbelt

But the problem is that if you separate two teams in the quarter finals and semi finals,there is always the chance of those two teams meeting again at some stage.

Laois had the chance to meet Dublin in the semi finals and Cork played Kerry for the third time this year.They also played twice last year.Its a high possibility that two teams that have met before will meet again.The point is that if you beat them once,you should beat them again.As I said,thats what makes champions.Kerry this year and Tyrone last year proved that a team can come up and prove they are the best.I always believed Tyrone were better than Armagh last year even when Armagh won Ulster.That game was marred by the Canavan sending off and it ended up 13 against 14.Armagh with the numbers advantage.That cost Tyrone.

I don't see why a team can't have another go espcially after something like that happens a team that they get two men sent off and they get beat in the fashion they did.