Very Tired from Training?

Millionaire

hi lads;

as ya know in thailand, doing thai each morning, just over 1 hour, but giving 110% (thats minimum, sometimes I do a second session but have laid off that for the following reason for the moment).

After thai, I come home which gives me about a 15 nin break, and then do approx 25 - 30 mins on thread mill, average speed 9-10km slow jog (eventually going to do sprints in time).

I work from mid afternoon to 11 or 12 midnight re my job.

I am fooking bolloxed from training. Tired and sore.

Now I do not want to wimp out, and I be a sissy, I refuse... its just not me. I hate guys who do not get stuck into training, and moan etc.

what can the experience coaches/fitness lads tell me.

Is this just a short term thing, as I was not training for a few weeks before this. will I improve, and break through this barrier?

I am eating healthy, and do not drink booze no more. I get 7 hours sleep at night.

what can I do to break through this?

I want to fight before xmas...ok it will be lower league stuff, no elbows to start with, so I have to push myself, and it takes 2 - 3 months to get into fighting shape.

I am really annoyed, I am so bolloxed tired!

Any ideas?

I am eating loads for fruit and veg, taking protein shake after training, eating protein, and I even got this green drink stuff you mix with water full of wheatgrass and greens to enhance health.

Dragan

Hey Mill,
i suggest you do up your daily diet and routine in a nice little list for us to look at. It's really as simple as you not covering everything you need to recover, but finding the problem will be made easier if you can that basically.

Basically just something like :

07:00 wake
07:15 breafast of porridge, honey, eggs etc
08:00 training.....

basically your daily structure.

Millionaire

OK wake 650 - 710am.

drink 1 litre water with electrolyte powder, and 1 black coffee.

hit thai camp before 8am...finish 910ish home 930am.

Drink Protein Shake

Do 20 - 30 mins run, depending on mood and energy.

Breakfast 10am ish scrambled eggs, fruits apples and cucumber, sometimes toast. Green Drink in Litre of water. Green teas...and try to avoid another coffee.

Lunch approx 1230 could be chick sandwich, tuna sandwich, steak sandwich, with green salad.

Tons of water all day long... don't worry I drink tons of water.

Now, I do not eat again until about 7pm...this would be BBQ chicken with all fat drained off, eaten with almost raw green veg...tons of green veg.

sometimes I fall for an occassional indian curry. I just moved to pattaya 2 weeks ago, so I am just getting my routine in order. so I can smarten up on it a bit.

Now I want to get in a min of 2 weights sessions at local gym, which I could do after Thai in morning, or after 1pm...and also want to get in 2 or 3 private lessons in MMA/Grappling/Ground from a lad in the gym (4 euro for a private lesson).

I telework into ireland so to mirror irish 9am - 5pm I have to be at my computer from 3pm to 11pm minimum, monday to friday.

So I want to train alot...train like a fighter, and I still hold down a full time job too.

I do not want to over train. last week I over trained for one day 2 thai 1000% sessions, running, and dumbells, and the next day, I was sore, tired, and depressed....and I am rarely depressed, I am a smiley type!!!!

so I have to be careful, and work this "time table" well.... I got a thai gals and she is great, she is like the Parish Priests House Keeper, and does all the cooking and serves me when I want it. ;-)

Nothingcompares

I'm certainly no expert but it definitely appears like you're eating too little, exercising too much and not resting enough.

Millionaire

I was thinking that myself....there got to be a solution where i can do it all.

I mean amateur boxers/fighters work jobs and train too.

I am 88 - 92Kg depending, and 5 11, so I got a bit of flab on me too which must go. Funny thing is I am packing some power in the strikes as I am a good 12kg heavier than this time last year!

Dragan

Yeah, your training a lot, your gonna be training more and your not eating or sleeping enough.

Your going about 6 hours during the day without eating, which is criminal and is costing you health, energy and recovery!!!!

Millionaire

so btween the 1230 - 1pm lunch..... I should be eating approx 4pm...chicken sandwich with protein shake...dinner at 7pm...and snack 1 hour before bed?

So I need to get extra 2 small meals minimum in. I read somewhere if you belnd fruit (as in carbs) into a protein shake, that, this counts as a meal??

I feel totally knacker as I type even! so an afternoon nap might be in order too!

and no training on sundays to let body recover.

buck65

I'm relatively new to martial arts but have ran long distance and cycled competitively in my twenties.
I would say a full break for a week or so might help. This is what I did when I was worn out and the body often posted better times in runs after a break.
Also 7 hours a night isn't enough, you need at least 8 or a snooze in the afternoon. Diet seems to be good I just think when you're in your 30s the body needs more rest to recover.

Colm_OReilly

Mill,

Do you look forward to Thai as relaxation or as work? If it feels like effort thinking about it, even if you really want to do it, it's usually a good indicator of overtraining.

I personally hate threadmills, they tend to be good just for hurting knees. Is it possible you could add your run on to the end of thai, and then head home?

Could you fit in a 30 min nap at any stage in the day? Say at your lunchtime or before you start work? This might help.

Could you replace one of the Thai sessions with an MMA session, rather than adding all the MMA sessions on top of Thai?

Roper

I believe that depression is one of the signs of overtraining, especially for a fit and healthy guy used to the highs of exercise.

Do you have a rest day or two at all Mill? Less might be more in this case?

Millionaire

I did not take a rest since I started last week....sunday I went horse riding, and then bet my gf 300 bhat I could run 5km in 30 mins...which I did.

I feel that bad, right now, I am freezing cold, and shaky. Now in 10 months in thailand, not once have I felt cold !!!!!

I view Thai, as a "must" it must be done... same as brushing your teeth. I take it very serious, and I when hitting the pads, I want to send the pad man across the pacific ocean with my strikes. i am not claiming to be good, I am just ok skill wise, but I give it all my heart. so yes, I must see it as "work"...and I do not like to miss "work".

Yes, afternoon nap is needed, and i think MMA session to replace one or two of the thai days.... sure I can do a few rounds striking in the MMA anyway.

yes. actually I am running after the thai session.. I find the opposite...the road running destroys my knees, and the threadmill which sometimes I fo bare feet is much kinder to my knees. plus wild dogs with rabies do not chase you !

A few days off is in order.

see mentally, I be trying to prove things to myself....not to anyone else. you will prove nothing nor any thai re muay thai I tell ya!

I be visualizing if I had to spar one of the lads on the Ultimate Fighter, so I have to train hard in case!!!

I be thinking things... an I am coming totally clean here and honest (so no slagging), that I never will be Arni the Ice Viking or Chuck Ldle, but I be thinking, I can train up to those levels too. or as near as possible.

I want to over come myself, and my own weakness, and fear to "throw the towel in " and give up. You know I could go back to Dublin, back to Mu Gen Do, put on my 4th degree black belt with the gold strips, and strut about, the hall. and not put my money where my mouth is. (You know the "sensi" types) but that is not me. I am an eternal student and must keep going and keep learning.

Fook.... I think I need a shrink! LOL !!!!!!!!

ninjawitatitude

Hey Gerry,
From a brief glance at your routine, I would definitely say that you aren't resting enough or eating enough. An extra meal (or two small snacks if your not feeling like a feed) between one and seven. And a kip in the afternoon did wonders for my energy levels when i was training twice a day.

Hope this helps

Marty Mc

Mill,

Ur writing about ur want and willingness to learn is a real inspiration in the sense that u want to be as good as you possibly can. It made me think abit about my own views and reassess and question my out look on training. Which is a good thing, a kick up the arse if u will.

Diet is something that i know abit about, and you my man are eating way to little for the amount of training u are doing and without doubt u are overtraining - bigtime. Ur body is in melt down my good man and u need to take a step back from it for maybe a week. At least as long as it takes for u to be fully recovered and chomping at the bit to get back and get loads of rest and sleep. Then begin again from scratch -

Diet: 6/7 small meals per day made up of solids and meal replacements /protein drinks. At least 5L water a day.

Morning: Porrage, eggs, multi vitamins, vit C

Mid Morning : Meal replacement maybe some fruit

Lunch: Baked potatoe/rice Chicken/ steak, salad - good portion.

Mid Day: same as mid morning maybe adding in some porrage (will explain later)

Dinner: Similar to Lunch

Supper: Small portion of chicken and salad.

U need parrage, baked potatoes, Rice etc.. as these are ur slow releasing carbohydrates which will help ur energy be realeased to the muscles throughout the day and should make a differance to ur training. I bet ur reading thinking fu@k me i'll be as fat as a fool in no time, but u will actually lose weight and feel better, dats guarreteed.

You need at least 8 hrs a night and u need a nap during the day because ur body will reenergize itself with the release of hormones in ur body which aids in ur recovery (even tho u may feel abit grogie). U can add supplemenyts as well to help this if u wish, but this is personal.

There is so much information, any Q's no probelms. Some may disagree with my outlook but this is personal experiences and we are very similar in stats.
I'm just thinking, i wish i could make use of my own information at times. Its so much easier looking from the outside!

Dave Joyce

Hi Gerry, great going keep it up!! I would tend to agree with what most of the lads have posted already ie not eating and not getting enough sleep. Most of the guys who go to Thailand to train for fights do the two daily sessions and go for a sleep in the afternoon. What about having your main meal earlier in the day which will give you more energy and will also work off the carbs during the day.(but again include as the lads have said more snacks).

In terms of training I would ease off for a few days and I would NOT do any MMA training (in case anyone jumps on my case I'm not suggesting you don't do it, just NOT right NOW) IF you are contemplating taking a Thai fight. Also why not jog to the the camp BEFORE the morning session and do a bit of weight training after the session. If you're training in a good camp you shouldn't have to hit the weights too much. Chok Dee, Buddy

crazy monkey

Hi Mill,

I am sure some ppl will not agree with what I am about to say, you may not, but trust me it's true.
If you have been training intensely for nearly ten months and watching your diet...the you will get emotionally,mentally and physically drained and your body will get very pissed off and go into "gimme a break mode"
So do give it a break spent 1/2 days in bed doing sod all, then eat loads of enjoyable/junk food and get pissed for another 2 days then relax for two...go to the movies or something non strenuous and then on the last day of the week have loads of sex and on day eight return to training...it works for me!!!

Millionaire

Yeah had night of cold sweats, shaking with the cold, I had to wear a sweat top hoddie and turn air con off (unheard of for a foreigner in 90 degree Thai heat). Threw up about 10 times. could not sleep, head and mind was fooked, depressed and parnoid. it was just horrible. and I was googling overtrainin, and I got all the symptoms there. even some cuts I have on my legs from a motorbike crash, are not healing up....another sympthom.

Lesson learned.

Feel a little better today, so I am not going to to any training until monday.

I guess its like driving the ****e out of your car, until the engine blows....thats what I did to myself.

See, you got to think, these Thai guys are training full time since their kids, and are basically "professional athletes", so I jumped in, and bascially tried to do the same as them, and now I am paying the price, plus working a job on top of it which brings plenty of stress.

A few days off, loads of water, and healthy food, and no training, will be the plan, and I can get back at it next week, maybe not as intense, and build up over a few weeks, rather than going like a mad man from day 1.

Yes got to eat more... i was holding back on the grub, thinking I would get fat.

Thanks for the all advice and help lads.

Colm_OReilly

Gerry,

What I meant by "work" is "are you enjoying it". Think of work like the masses do for a second, soul crushing mindless tasks for somebody else. If you attitude is "Urgghh, I have to go to Thai" instead of "Yippee! Some Thai!" it can be a good indicator of overtraining. Particularly if that's coupled with "Jesus, I'm wrecked" rather than "I'm wrecked, but that was fragging awesome!" post training.

Dave,
I forgot that but it's good advice. If you're training for a Thai fight why 'waste' time on the ground. Unless of course, it's one class a week just for something different. But yeah, keep your training sport specific coming up to competition.

Colm

Millionaire

Yes I love it! I cannot wait to get there 90% of the time!!! of course you have the odd day where you got to say "do it man" but thats only natural.

I feel very "fulfilled" in my life when I am doing my training, and when I cannot train, I feel disappointed.

I think I will push things back a bit, push stepping into ring, back a few months more, cut down the training a little, and let the body build up, gradual, so I can handel the level of training I was doing again, and take more rest days.

I think i still will squeze in one gronund session a week, just to get the basic down, I mean I know almost zero about the ground, so I d imagine I would be starting at a much slower pace anyway.

For the next few days, I am doing nothing!

Millionaire

Hi Guys

Just as a matter of follow up, since I come on here, asking for help, and got some good advice, about over training, rest more, take time off, and eat better.

This is the rest of the story.

A few days ago, I had a little cut on the top of my foot, sort of a cut/burn probably from kicking a thai pad/heavy bag and scraping foot on it.

Naturally being sort of stubborn person I am, I trained away full blast for next few days, until cut was about the size of a penny, and was a bit infected, and raw. Big Deal! Was not like I was after loosing a arm in an war!

Anyway its rainy season here, and around the same time for a few days, some of the streets were under at least 1foot of water, some more, some less, which means all the rain gutters, had backed up, and all sort of dirty stuff was floating around in the water.

No one had any choice but to drive through it, and I though it was fun…a bit like racing a jet ski (I have a motor bike) up the street, and of course often my foot and wound was soaked in the water.

Last night by leg was black and blue, and logically I though about it, and since I am lashing thai bags and pads almost daily since late January…there is no way it was a bruise. I got hardened shins at this stage, plus skin and a weird texture and smell.

Anyway a buddy forced me to go to the hospital. And I am a very luck man to have gone. Remember I had 3 days of hellish fever, which I toughed out at home.

Turns out I got a cell infection, celluitis or soft cell infection it is called, and immediately I was put on drip of anti biotics, they wanted to keep me in for 3 days but I refused and have to go back every day for an hour on the drip to clear the infection. I got an IV needle stuck in my hand, which is fun! NOT!

Doc was very surprised, I did not have a blood infection too. And warned me if I do not come back to finish treatment, there is a chance I could develop Gangrene in my leg…and we all know that’s a chop the leg off job!

So I am writing this as I am sure some of you will travel to Thailand to train at some stage, to be aware, and not be stubborn like me, and if you get cut or anything, to seek immediate medical attention.

Also most Thai Trainers are farm boys from the North East, where I lived for 8 months, and I seen the rural side of Thailand that few foreigners get to see. I have never seen a roll of toilet paper in a thai toilet, so a lot of these boys would be cleaning their hole with the hand after Number 2, and maybe not washing hands after. Another Great way to spread an infection/virus etc.

Just something to be aware of!!!! As I would hate for anyone to go through what I went through this week.

Cheers
Gerry

buck65

Gerry
Yeah that cellulitis is serious have a friend who got a kick in the shin playing football and spent a month on crutches and missed the rest of the season- I guess you will have to rest now!

Hail 2 Da Chimp

Pretty much the same as above, one of the guys I trained with got it in his shin and spread all the way up to his knee, he was in hospital for a week as well. had to miss a sh!t load of training and he didnt have it half as bad as you!

Hope you get better!

Millionaire

Thanks lads.

Well looks like I will be laid up for a few weeks....well no Muay Thai anyway. (depressing thought!!!) LOL!

crokester

Its strange how common that problem seems to be with guys training in Thailand. I started off with a mosquito bite on my shin which opened up very quickly and started to splatter blood on my trainers face each time I kicked a pad!! It bacame pretty disgusting to look at. My trainers response was to duck tape it, which of course sorted the problem but left me with a band of hairles baby smooth skin when i eventually peeled it off! With any cut in a foreign country you should take care, flies tend to fester on the area making you open to all sorts; this becomes doubly important when training at an intense level.

Millionaire

when I first train in Thailand in Fairtex camp outside bangkok about 18 months ago....we were all sharing gloves. which were left out at night on a shelf outside with all sorts of bugs and lizards crawling into them.

a week after I came home, I end up with a serious eye infection, which took 6 trips to the top eye specialist in blackrock clinic to get clear, and she was very worried about the infection as it was an unusual one. I maintain I got it from sharing boxing gloves, in a humid climate. thats another practice in Thailand you should avoid. Buy or Bring your own gloves and let NO ONE use or try them on...especially your thai trainer.....re what I said about their toilet habits.

Odysseus

Hi Gerry,

Just seen this now, been offline for a few days. Sorry to hear your ill, but at least your getting medical attention. Make sure you get rest and follow up on the treatment. Best of luck with your recovery mate, at the end of the day, I'm sure you will be able to make up any miised training.

Millionaire wrote:

Hi Guys

Just as a matter of follow up, since I come on here, asking for help, and got some good advice, about over training, rest more, take time off, and eat better.

This is the rest of the story.

A few days ago, I had a little cut on the top of my foot, sort of a cut/burn probably from kicking a thai pad/heavy bag and scraping foot on it.

Naturally being sort of stubborn person I am, I trained away full blast for next few days, until cut was about the size of a penny, and was a bit infected, and raw. Big Deal! Was not like I was after loosing a arm in an war!

Anyway its rainy season here, and around the same time for a few days, some of the streets were under at least 1foot of water, some more, some less, which means all the rain gutters, had backed up, and all sort of dirty stuff was floating around in the water.

No one had any choice but to drive through it, and I though it was fun…a bit like racing a jet ski (I have a motor bike) up the street, and of course often my foot and wound was soaked in the water.

Last night by leg was black and blue, and logically I though about it, and since I am lashing thai bags and pads almost daily since late January…there is no way it was a bruise. I got hardened shins at this stage, plus skin and a weird texture and smell.

Anyway a buddy forced me to go to the hospital. And I am a very luck man to have gone. Remember I had 3 days of hellish fever, which I toughed out at home.

Turns out I got a cell infection, celluitis or soft cell infection it is called, and immediately I was put on drip of anti biotics, they wanted to keep me in for 3 days but I refused and have to go back every day for an hour on the drip to clear the infection. I got an IV needle stuck in my hand, which is fun! NOT!

Doc was very surprised, I did not have a blood infection too. And warned me if I do not come back to finish treatment, there is a chance I could develop Gangrene in my leg…and we all know that’s a chop the leg off job!

So I am writing this as I am sure some of you will travel to Thailand to train at some stage, to be aware, and not be stubborn like me, and if you get cut or anything, to seek immediate medical attention.

Also most Thai Trainers are farm boys from the North East, where I lived for 8 months, and I seen the rural side of Thailand that few foreigners get to see. I have never seen a roll of toilet paper in a thai toilet, so a lot of these boys would be cleaning their hole with the hand after Number 2, and maybe not washing hands after. Another Great way to spread an infection/virus etc.

Just something to be aware of!!!! As I would hate for anyone to go through what I went through this week.

Cheers
Gerry

Black Swan

I train daily but am a java-holic, so it gives me the needed lift. My only vice.

crokester

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

I train daily but am a java-holic, so it gives me the needed lift. My only vice.

Tell me about it! I cant get off the stuff! However coffee will hinder your recovery ability because it eats calories that can be used for cell repair. Also coffee despite giving you a 1-1 1/2 hour buzz leaves you on average with less energy then a non-coffee drinker. If you have a 4-5 cup a day habit, such as your truly, those 4-5 cups only bring you up to the level of a non caffeine addict. To see this go cold turkey one day and see how drained you are!

Millionaire

yeah my only vice too is strong black coffee, and I am like an anti-christ until i have at least 2 as awaker uper.

Now I am cut back to one, and I do green tea instead. and try to keep to a 3 a day limit.

of course today I was hanging on a drip again in hospital and getting black shin clean, so I was pumping myself with coffee out of boredom...and thats bad.

Yeah I 've gone cold turkey for 60 days once. 1st week is rough..headaches, cranky as fook, and muscle aches, and irritation.....but funny thing is a coffee addict feels the same way anyway!

so I am trying to cut down, though this weekend as I am meant to rest at home with this infection etc, I don't give a damn. and when I feel better next week, shall stick on the green teas.

I am on this Green Drink stuff (google Green Drink) its a mix of wheat grass, and simialr stuff and is supposed to work wonders....3 litres a day....once I feel better, it will be interesting to see the difference it makes...though I am sure taking it stopped be getting blood poisoning...as Doc was amazed by blood was clean...he said I should have had blood poisoining too.

yeah plenty of time to pick training up in a few weeks, tons of camps here, and I do not think they will be closing down, just cause I miss a few weeks! LOL!