Should I give blood?

LegacyUser

Im not sure if this is the right forum but I would like peoples opinions on this .....

I am a young gay man (25) who has in the past donated blood 8 times over the past number of years. I couldnt call myself sexually promiscuous (always have very safe sex with a very small number of partners). I have been tested a few times just to play things safe and never had a cause for concern. The thing is that every time I go to donate, I lie on the form and tick NO to the particular 'man with man' questions. I know this is something people would expect to be posted in a gays rights forum etc but I would like to get the opinion of people as to whether you would have problems receiving my blood or do you think I doing something fundamentally wrong????

Answers on a postcard please ……..

Garret

id say lie, as long as long as you know you're clean

Rb

If you know you've clean blood, I say go for it and lie.

Johnniep

Taken from the IBTS website

Never give blood if:

You have received a blood transfusion (other than an autologous transfusion) in the Republic of Ireland on or after the 1st January 1980
You received a blood transfusion (other than an autologous transfusion) outside the Republic of Ireland at anytime
You have spent 1 year or more, in total, in the UK in the years 1980 to 1996
You are a male who has ever had anal or oral sex with another male, even if a condom or other form of protection was used
You have ever used a needle to take unprescribed drugs, this includes body building drugs
You or your partner is HIV positive
You have had jaundice of uncertain cause after the age of 13 years
You have had hepatitis B or C

Regards,

J

spurious

Apparently it doesn't matter if you are a heterosexual woman having as much unprotected anal sex as you like with as many partners as you like - this is the nonsense of the IBTS ban.

As a result of their discriminatory ban against my gay brothers, I had kept my fine blood to myself for years, but finally went in to give some last month. They said they didn't want it due to a blood pressure medication I am taking at the moment. I won't bother again.

I would have no problem getting your blood OP - I would presume given their rather dodgy past the IBTS completely screen all blood now...but perhaps they don't???

Gordon

Whether or not the current understanding is correct on male-male sexual activity and blood donation - you really should tell the truth.

Seraphina

i doubt the dying person they give the blood to wouldn't object, i know i wouldn't.
the form is disgracefully discriminatory. highest incidents of std's is among hetero women and still they dont allow gays to donate.
as long as you are having safe sex and know you're clean, i say donate away. they test the blood anyway, and if something came up, they'd let you know and wouldn't use it for transfusions.

Darragh29

Seraphina wrote:

i doubt the dying person they give the blood to wouldn't object, i know i wouldn't.
the form is disgracefully discriminatory. highest incidents of std's is among hetero women and still they dont allow gays to donate.
as long as you are having safe sex and know you're clean, i say donate away. they test the blood anyway, and if something came up, they'd let you know and wouldn't use it for transfusions.

My own father had to have 90% of his blood volume replaced by transfusion after losing it to internal bleeding & surgery after having an aortic aneurysm. The last thing I remember when he was being rushed from the russication room to the operating theatre in St. James was the A & E consultant on the phone asking for 12 litres of blood to be rushed up to the theatre within the next 3 minutes. Fair play to you for giving blood, if it wasn't for people like you, my Dad would be in his grave two years now.

Blub2k4

I understand where you are coming from although you are probably in a lower risk category than I am from the medical point of view.

I used to give blood and liked doing it for a number of years.

I was an intravenous drug user a few years back and not for very long. Similarly to you knowing your partners, I know that I never used dirty needles and never shared a needle with anyone. I gave up intravenous drugs in '97, I still don't give blood. I have had a few tests since and know that I am ok.
I filled out a form a while back while in Vincents (heart scare that was actually RSI, keyboard related ) and was honest about the IV drug use, I was treated as a "blood hazard" at least that's what the sign on the drawn curtains said, so that was the first time being confronted with it, I'd possibly want to avoid this again, cos I know my situation, but I think I'd still tell the truth the next time.

What am I saying? Well I'm in a very similar situation and I've stopped giving blood, it may be a little black and white but the rules in that case are too, and I'm not a medic, it's not my call.

Did you know that people who lived in the UK between such and such a date and another are also proscribed because of Mad cow disease and the possibility that they eat brain or spinal cord matter from infected beef, apart from being with me, an ex-junkie, that's the other reason my UK girlfriend can't and won't give blood.

You're not alone.

Victor

I have had a few tests since and know that I am ok.

http://www.hepccomptrib.com/ - one person with Hepatitis infected several thousand. I'm sure she thought she was OK also.

Blub2k4

Victor wrote:

http://www.hepccomptrib.com/ - one person with Hepatitis infected several thousand. I'm sure she thought she was OK also.

Which is why I kinda went to pains to explore with the OP, why I have chosen not to give blood, and also why I tell the truth on the forms.

Tha Gopher

spurious wrote:

Apparently it doesn't matter if you are a heterosexual woman having as much unprotected anal sex as you like with as many partners as you like - this is the nonsense of the IBTS ban.

Yes but its the risk factor. Heterosexual women are close on 50% of the population. Gay men are what, 1%? (never mind what studies you read putting it around 10%, in real life how many can you think of? Im stuck on about five in total). Similiarly, heroin users comprise about 1% of Dublins population (13,000 odd). However, the two latter groups constitute double figures when it comes to the AIDS figures. So its only sense that they are disbarred (though isnt all blood screened anyway? Is the thinking behind it that the screening process isnt entirely flawless, or is it just that they want to avoid a situation where one pint of infected blood causes the thousands of others in the mix to have to be thrown away?)

iirc the form also states you shouldnt donate if you have had sex with someone from sub saharan Africa. Oh well, theres an excuse, damn all those big booty black hoes

In addition to the fact Im fcuking absoloutely terrified of needles.......

Fair play to those who give blood, my oul lad gave for years till they took him off the list because he had what in fairness were relatively minor heart problems, but tbh id nearly faint at the sight of a needle. I cant think of anything, be it animals, people, weather etc etc that Im afraid of, bar tiny little sharp needles.

Scraggs

Victor wrote:

http://www.hepccomptrib.com/ - one person with Hepatitis infected several thousand. I'm sure she thought she was OK also.

I've had a blood transfusion very recently so I'm slightly biased but really OP you should tell the truth in those forms.
Its very good of you to donate blood and its highly possible that you've saved someones life [could have been mine for all we know] -and you should keep doing so if its possible/allowable but really you could be doing more harm than good so I would tell the truth if I were you.


Does anybody know if they do more testing on the blood or is it just not used?

Victor

Tha Gopher wrote:

though isnt all blood screened anyway? Is the thinking behind it that the screening process isnt entirely flawless, or is it just that they want to avoid a situation where one pint of infected blood causes the thousands of others in the mix to have to be thrown away?)

I doubt batches of blood are mixed. Fair enough for cows milk, but not human blood.

Blood is screend and treated, but one can't be 100% sure that all the blood has been fulled screened before its use-by date. In any case you could have a situation of an undiscovered disease or one where the full implications aren't understood and you end up with new HIV- and vCJD-type scenarios.

daiixi

Johnniep wrote:

Taken from the IBTS website

Never give blood if:

You have received a blood transfusion (other than an autologous transfusion) in the Republic of Ireland on or after the 1st January 1980
You received a blood transfusion (other than an autologous transfusion) outside the Republic of Ireland at anytime
You have spent 1 year or more, in total, in the UK in the years 1980 to 1996
You are a male who has ever had anal or oral sex with another male, even if a condom or other form of protection was used
You have ever used a needle to take unprescribed drugs, this includes body building drugs
You or your partner is HIV positive
You have had jaundice of uncertain cause after the age of 13 years
You have had hepatitis B or C

Regards,

J

They also say a woman shouldn't give blood if she's ever slept with a man who has had anal or oral sex with another male, even if a condom or other form of protection was used. Uhh I've got to say that that isn't really something I've asked past boyfriends so everytime I give blood I tick "no" but in all honesty, I have no idea. Should I not give blood?

OP: Personally, I'd rather get your blood than die because there wasn't enough blood available.

Sangre

But what about people receiving blood in minor procedures who become infected? Not everybody who receives blood is on death's door.

Basically I'd just read it as rules are rules and there are a reason for them. I know you've been tested many times but really, could you live with the guilt of infecting someone else (not that you'd know or are infected).

Are they even that desperate for blood?

Darragh29

Why don't you enquire from them as to the reason for why they will not take bllod donations from gay men, outside of visiting them to donate, like ring or e-mail them with an enquiry??? I'm sure there is an objective reason for it.

Sleipnir

I think the OP's point is that the rules of the IBTS in respect of gay epople donating blood is questionable.

The original point of the rule was basically that the gay community were the biggest risk in terms of HIV. Since those days, the risk groups have changed given the "population" of each community i.e. heterosexual male, heterosexual female, homosexual male, homosexual female and other factors.

It is now known that group with the greatest risk is in fact the heterosexual female. The W.H.O. say that so why does the IBTS not ban the most "dangerous" group from donating blood?
They don't because that's not what the rule is about.

OP, if a transfusion saves my life, I don't care where it comes from. I would just be happy someone donated it and I was alive.

RampagingBadger

I went to the English blood transfusion service to see if they have a similar policy. It seems they don't (http://www.blood.co.uk/pages/flash_questions.html). It may be that the Irish policy is out of date and/or they take the view that as gay men are statistically more likely to have HIV/AIDS they don't want to take the risk period. Either way you should never lie on those forms. If you want to make a statement about it go to your TD or write to your newspaper. That kind of civil disobedience doesn't get anyone anywhere.

I've no problem with 'clean' gay/lesbian/straigh/bi men/women giving blood. But I'm not qualified to make the call for the IBTS. I doubt you are either.

sprinkles

I'm banned from giving blood because I lived in the uk for more than a year. That's a load of bull if you ask me. I'm ok to give blood to people in the north but not in the south. Health risks should be taken seriously but in fairness that's a bit ott imo.

AH well, OP: I don't give blood beacause the rules say I shouldn't. I want to. I think everyone that can should but at the same time to take a chance with stuff like that is a bit risky to others. It's an arcaic rule and everyone giving blood should be tested, but at the same time it's a rule. You choose to either obey it or not.

Sleipnir

RampagingBadger wrote:

and/or they take the view that as gay men are statistically more likely to have HIV/AIDS

But that's just it, gay men are not statistically more likely to have aids. Not when you take into accounts statistics such as "what % of the population is made up of gay men" and "what % of the population is made up of women"!!!
Uh less then 1% and around 50% respectively!

The information below is taken directly from the World Health Organisations website and is for Ireland only.

Since the start of the epidemic and as of June 2003, 3,216 persons had been diagnosed with HIV. The majority (34%) are drug injectors. A further 32% are heterosexual and 22%
homo/bi-sexual cases.

The epidemiology of HIV infection in Ireland has changed considerably in the last ten years.

Annual incidence of new cases has increased since 1994, with 364 new cases in 2002 and a further 243 cases in the first six months of 2003.

In recent years the incidence of both new injecting drug use and homo/bi-sexual cases has declined and remained relatively stable, however there have been marked increases in
heterosexual cases.

Since 1998 the increase in incidence of heterosexual cases has been marked. In 2002 63% of new cases were heterosexual compared with 13% homo/bi-sexual and 14%
injecting drug use. Further analysis of heterosexual cases reported in 2002 revealed that 77% were born in sub-Saharan Africa.

So how long would you say it'll take before
"are you a black person?"
is on the form? A million years?

Caryatnid

Reallydunno2BH wrote:

Im not sure if this is the right forum but I would like peoples opinions on this .....

I am a young gay man (25) who has in the past donated blood 8 times over the past number of years. I couldnt call myself sexually promiscuous (always have very safe sex with a very small number of partners). I have been tested a few times just to play things safe and never had a cause for concern. The thing is that every time I go to donate, I lie on the form and tick NO to the particular 'man with man' questions. I know this is something people would expect to be posted in a gays rights forum etc but I would like to get the opinion of people as to whether you would have problems receiving my blood or do you think I doing something fundamentally wrong????

Answers on a postcard please ……..

OP, don't be so ignorant.
You're completely rubbishing the point of this questionnaire, by lying on it. What's the point in filling it in at all? You're deliberately lying to one of the most important questions.
The fact that you think you should be allowed to give blood is another issue. Take the Blood Board to court, write a letter to a newspaper, whatever. There are lots of people out there like you, who are also not allowed to give blood. For example:
My sister used to give blood regularly, but is now not allowed to since she received blood between certain dates when she was a child.
I'm not allowed to give blood because I am too small.
Is it fair to lie? NO. Giving blood is too big a deal. I think it is a brilliant thing to do, but one has to be VERY responsible on this.
The posters who are saying they would rather receive your blood, than die, are making a fair point, but they are forgetting that you are not the only person in who can give blood. But surely if we're going to receive blood anyway, we'd rather as many precautions be taken to ensure it is as clean as possible?
Respect the IBTS in that they know what they're doing. They know more about blood than you or I.
If I were you: I'd fill in the form correctly, but I would perhaps seek to talk to a rep from the blood board.

Black Swan

The OP should be allowed to give blood, a noble thing, if he is disease free, just like anyone else. I think the ban has two sources, (1) epidemiological (associated with an increased potential for disease) and (2), social bias.

The Hill Billy

Let's say that when I lived in the UK in the mid-nineties that I only ate beef that my butcher told me was 110% organic. Home I come to Ireland - the Blood Board tell me that I can't donate because I ate British beef. I think to myself - "Fcek that - sure didn't yer man tell me that it was organic? That's all right then I'll give them a few pints." Blood donated. Blood used to in making 000's batches of blood products. I pop my clogs from nvCJD. So do innocent others.

The little white lie told by the butcher is the similar to the one that sexual partners (male or female) may tell you when they say they've never had it up the sh1tter bare-back (or some other high-risk sexual practice). But the consequences of fcuking around with tried & tested rules for the donation of blood are not to be messed with.

I have a very rare blood-type myself. The Blood Board used to call me to remind me when I could donate next. I would love to donate it - now they won't take it coz I could have eaten dodgy beef in England back in the nineties. They understand the risks way, way better than you or I. Don't donate.

If you think that you are being discriminated against - take your fight to them & best of luck. But don't bring the 000's of blood recipients into your fight.

The Sweeper

The blood transfusion board need all types of blood. If most people have O pos or A pos blood, then the blood board need mostly O pos and A pos blood.

The UK screening form has four sections:

Lifestyle
Since your last donation
Other risks
Your travel history


Under lifestyle, men are required to answer: "Have you ever had oral or anal sex with a man who has ever had oral or anal sex with another man, with or without a condom or other form of protection?"

Women are required to answer: "In the last 12 months have you had sex with a man who has ever had oral or anal sex with another man, with or without a condom or other form of protection?"

Under 'other risks' you're asked if anyone in your family has had CJD.

There are also questions about countries you have visited and for what duration.

Basically, the purpose could be twofold - eliminate anyone who could be potentially high risk from the outset, or get enough information to divide people into potential risk groups. I think the issue is how thorough is blood screening. Do the blood transfusion board screen every single donation, or do they screen the person and separate the donations into high risk, mid risk and low risk groups? E.g. do they test every first time donation, and then decide on testing based on form filling? I know they take a vial of blood on top of the pint every time I donate - do they always test that vial for the immune deficiency and Hep viruses, does anyone know for certain?

I could ask next time I give blood, but I've gone uber squeamish in the last 12 months and haven't donated. I must go back and donate again.

Isn't all blood tested before its released for use now anyway?I mean they don't just go on the trust of the donor.
A long time ago I was in an accident and lost an awfull lot of blood.I'd have died without the generosity of donors.

All this pc stuff regarding why one should answer that question truthfully is pandering to the catholic church tbh and pathetic discrimination imho.
The discrimination shouldnt bethere in the first place.

OP do what you feel is right.

Love2love

They ask these questions for a reason..... the know more about the risks than we do. Don't lie.

Rev Hellfire

I think protecting the integrity of the blood supply is more important than your making a stance. As has been noted before there are more appropriate ways of making your stance, without potentially placing others at risk.

Additionally others should not be advising you to ignore the guidelines in place, this is very close to the wire in my opinion as far as medical advice is concerned.

astrofool

Sleipnir wrote:

But that's just it, gay men are not statistically more likely to have aids. Not when you take into accounts statistics such as "what % of the population is made up of gay men" and "what % of the population is made up of women"!!!
Uh less then 1% and around 50% respectively!

The information below is taken directly from the World Health Organisations website and is for Ireland only.



So how long would you say it'll take before
"are you a black person?"
is on the form? A million years?

Do you even understand what you quoted means? In simple terms:

There are 1000 people,

Two classes, A, B

A makes up 50% or 500 people

B makes up 1% or 10 people

Now there's a disease that say 10 people have, 30% (3 people) are from A, and 20% (2 people) are from B.

This translates as 3 from 500 people having the disease in A (0.006%), and 2 from 10 people having the disease in B (20%), making B statistically more likely than A to have the disease.

Now, even were the figure for B to be underestimated by a factor of 10, that still makes someone from B (2/.006) 333 times more likely to be infected.

At least understand what you are quoting.

Back on topic, I lived in England during the 80's and can't give blood here as a result, and won't, as other people have said, it's not my call (ignoring the fact that vCJD was covered up in Ireland anyway...).

Right now the people who manage the blood supply are confident enough that the small risk represented by me is not worth the extra blood supply, and will have done the same for gay people.

Were blood supplies to get very low (in an emergency for example), then they would probably revise the decision and accept blood from higher risk people.

It's also about public confidence in the blood supply, and unfortunately people can be an ignorant lot, and if people knew that the blood they are taking could be from a gay/uk person, than they might refuse treatment, and die as a result, again it's risk management, and the blood service is there to save people, not to make morale judgements for them, as stupid as they are.

And that's without getting into the can of worms that is people who refuse all transfusions as happened lately with a Jehovahs Witness.

The_Minister

Tristrame wrote:

Isn't all blood tested before its released for use now anyway?I mean they don't just go on the trust of the donor.

All blood is tested but testing isn't 100% certain, so very high risk groups, such as gays and druggies are excluded.

Tristrame wrote:

All this pc stuff regarding why one should answer that question truthfully is pandering to the catholic church tbh and pathetic discrimination imho.
The discrimination shouldnt bethere in the first place.

The discrimination was brought in as when aids first appeared, they could not test for it. All that they knew was that gays got it. Thus, they banned gays.

The Hill Billy

Let's get something straight here (pardon the pun )...

They are not banning gay people from donating blood.

They are refusing donations from:
(a) people who engage in what are considered to be high-risk sexual practices.
(b) people who may have had sex with the above.

Hill Billy

Hill Billy wrote:

Let's get something straight here (pardon the pun )...

They are not banning gay people from donating blood.

They are refusing donations from:
(a) people who engage in what are considered to be high-risk sexual practices.
(b) people who may have had sex with the above.

Correct.
I was under the impression that the restrictions here in Ireland were more severe than in Britain.
They are not,they are exactly the same.(that said it is effectively a ban on gay people who have had sex,ie practically all gay men probably)

http://www.blood.co.uk/pages/flash_questions.html

In which case I'd still advise the OP to do what the OP thinks is right.
I'd also say not to worry about it if you think you shouldnt.Just tell people that you've had jaundice as a kid or something if you must say something-oh and Encourage people to give blood,its needed

Beruthiel

Due to some questionable comments on this thread, I'm closing it as it's getting too close to medical adivce.

It is never a good idea to lie when filling out any forums, those questions are there to help make sure the blood given is healthy.