Vans

bombidol

Im in the market for a van. in particular a van with a row of seats in the back and cargo space. I've seen a few of these bad boys around but im finding it hard to find one out there. I have between 3 and 4 grand to spend. And theres nothing on autotrader. anyone got any ideas?

Mc-BigE

bombidol wrote:

Im in the market for a van. in particular a van with a row of seats in the back and cargo space. I've seen a few of these bad boys around but im finding it hard to find one out there. I have between 3 and 4 grand to spend. And theres nothing on autotrader. anyone got any ideas?

sounds to me like you need a double cab pickup, but not for 4000euro you wont!

because it sounds like what your suggesting (correct me if im wrong)
is actually illegal i.e. commerical van with back seats, the only exception to this is double cab trucks/vans or pickups i think.

bombidol

Theres loads of these around on the roads i just have no clue where to buy one. I can get a nice van for under 4000 Euro. but the conversion to have a back seat put in costs about 4500!
Its driving me feckin mad at this stage. This will be used commerically too probably.

Mc-BigE

bombidol wrote:

Theres loads of these around on the roads i just have no clue where to buy one. I can get a nice van for under 4000 Euro. but the conversion to have a back seat put in costs about 4500!
Its driving me feckin mad at this stage. This will be used commerically too probably.

what size are we talking about Ford Transit size or VW Caddy size?
What about a Transit Minibus in the Uk and import it into ireland?

bombidol

Something around the Ford Transit size, not LWB though. dont need anything quite that big. nissan Vannette Cargo type of yoke.

Mc-BigE

bombidol wrote:

Something around the Ford Transit size, not LWB though. dont need anything quite that big. nissan Vannette Cargo type of yoke.

what about a camper van?, cheap road tax, and if you remove/fold down the seats at the back, you might have enough room? just a thought.

http://www.carzone.ie/usedcars/index.cfm?fuseaction=car&carID=463750

bombidol

i dont think theres anyway i could fit 4 or 5 people in there with a full drum kit and 3 or 4 amps along with a pile of guitars and bags unfortunatly.

byte

I think the right terminology is a "crew van" or a van with a "crew cab"

Renault Trafic for example comes in the crewvan variety. I'd imagine they'll be pretty hard to find over here.

Transit

Transporter

ballooba

http://www.rainbowcommercials.com/index.php?PAGE=Detail&Vehicle=TEST-025
http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/www/vans_search.asp?page=1&make=&model=&keywords=rear+seats&min_pr=75&max_pr=2000&mileage=&agerange=&postcode=bs32+4nf&miles=1500&max_records=50&source=0&photo=1&sort=3&search=SEARCH

bombidol

some of those are nice but getting them over from the uk is a killer

ballooba

Hardly.

You fly over, pick up the van, drive it to the ferry, go to bed, get up, drive it home. 24 hours work max.

Your going to get a lot more Ex-Royal Mail and similar in the UK.

bombidol

taxes and all though?

Mc-BigE

bombidol wrote:

taxes and all though?

might not be as much as you think, ring your local VRT office and find out.
100euro max for flight, and around 120-150 for ferry(but not in today's weather!)
I think the Camper van idea might not have been my best! considering what you have to carry:)

overdriver

VRT on commercial vehicles is 50 quid.

bombidol

Im trying to figure out if its worth my while registering my business though just for a cheaper option on a motor.

Mc-BigE

overdriver wrote:

VRT on commercial vehicles is 50 quid.

would it still be considered a commerical vehicle even if its got rear seats?
ie. would the VRT be Crew cab 13.5%

bombidol

The problem im having is that i have no idea what im doing. I'm on my first provisional license and the only reason im learning to drive is to cart band equipment around. so im new to this whole process. I have a small record label that i could register and insure the motor through if needs be or i could just insure it privatly. but i know this is going to cost me mad money so im trying to keep the costs down.

ballooba

bombidol wrote:

Im trying to figure out if its worth my while registering my business though just for a cheaper option on a motor.

I don't think you have to register a business for commercial insurance.

Go to http://www.quinn-direct.ie and try for a commercial quote.

Should be able to drive on a provisional. Especially if one of the other band members has a full licence.

ballooba

bombidol wrote:

but i know this is going to cost me mad money so im trying to keep the costs down.

If you are trying to keep the costs down then taxing and VRTing the vehicle commercially will save you a hell of a lot of money.

You should not have to register a business to get commercial insurance. I would be surprised if you even need a trade name. Sole traders can exist without trade names.

bombidol

Hmm, yeah i was thinking of just registering the trade name. its only a score just to have it more official. and it will be used for record company business. I went to quinndirect and tried their online quote system but it just told me to call em. which cant be a good sign.

bombidol

I rang Quinn Direct and they wont insure me as i'll be carrying musical equipment around??? WTF?

Savman

bombidol I'm with Quinn with same usage (band/music etc) and I can tell you that on a Provisional you can forget anything above 1.9L which rules out a Crewcab with rear seats and the works. iirc these vans (which are common in Ireland) are above 3500kg and might require a higher category license. Maybe someone else can confirm but personally I've not seen that kind of van in a short wheel base version that'd fit a whole band rig, the one that springs to mind is the Mercedes Sprinter but regardless of manufacturer you prolly wont get one for €4k.

Importing from the UK is the best suggestion so far, especially if its all to be done commercially. I've scoured eBay and found some great bangers ex-Royal Mail or whatever, and bringing one back is very simple as someone said. Ferry back from Holyhead or Liverpool, easy.

Don't attempt to install rear seats yourself, insurance company will ask questions you cant answer and if you "fail" to notify them you'd be treading on a legal minefield.

overdriver

Look, I play music for a living, so i feel your pain. No insurance company will touch you carrying music stuff around. Ridiculous, I know. But there it is.

My advice to you is buy a Hiace. 3 seats, and enough room to carry all your gear. Then the other members can travel in one car. There is no other way for you. You don't need to register your record company to do it, they won't care about any of that, but they will care what your occupation is.

What I had to do was insure myself as a music tutor ( I do teach kids guitar). Nobody tell me what the consequences of bending the truth there are - I know. Then I had to tell them that I had 4 big dogs and cycle competitively, so I needed a van. The insurance company I have been with for years argued and struggled, but eventually gave in.

TBH, I think, after all my years in the business, that you're a fool to be taklig this on for the rest of the band. Even if they help you pay, there is no reward for being the one with all the stuff in your vehicle, for a number of reasons.

Also, don't give your real detaols when phoning for quotes at first. They keep everything on computer, and now Quinn have you flagged as a band.

Mc-BigE

Sounds like the crew cab idea is not going to happen.
here's another mad idea for you:D What about an big trailer with a roof?
Not too sure were you could get one big enough for your equipment?

Just tow it around to your gigs etc. you'll also need to have a trailer licence

and would a normal car be strong enough to pull something that big, maybe a diesel car. sounds like this might be too much to ask for 4K

overdriver

Use smaller gear. Nowadays the equipment is much neater than it used to be. I don't see why he's trying to run before he can walk. Let everyone take their own gear for the next while til he gets his license. This is what bands do every day.

bombidol

Dude I've been in a band since i was 13 years old, I toured Ireland, England, Scotland and America I know what im doing. I dont need advice or input on music. I'm getting a van cause we recently lost a member who drove which leaves us down to 1 driving member of the band. Its not fair on him so im picking up some of the slack.

bombidol

However you do have a point about van size so Im now looking at a smaller van thats within my capabilities to insure and drive.

overdriver

bombidol wrote:

Dude I've been in a band since i was 13 years old, I toured Ireland, England, Scotland and America I know what im doing. I dont need advice or input on music. I'm getting a van cause we recently lost a member who drove which leaves us down to 1 driving member of the band. Its not fair on him so im picking up some of the slack.

Er, where did I give you advice on music?????


Also you made my point for me, which was one guy is already driving, so why break your balls trying to fit everyone's gear into a van you can't insure?

bombidol

overdriver wrote:

TBH, I think, after all my years in the business, that you're a fool to be taklig this on for the rest of the band. Even if they help you pay, there is no reward for being the one with all the stuff in your vehicle, for a number of reasons.

Looks like advice to me. But all that aside. Im trying to consolidate all the band and gear into one motor, makes it a lot handier for touring. we have another UK tour coming up in November and I was hoping to have it all sorted by then but it looks like it wont be.

overdriver

bombidol wrote:

Looks like advice to me. But all that aside. Im trying to consolidate all the band and gear into one motor, makes it a lot handier for touring. we have another UK tour coming up in November and I was hoping to have it all sorted by then but it looks like it wont be.

There's no advice on music there. It's advice on band transport, which I feel qualified to offer. You don't have to take it. The unfortunate thing about asking for advice on anything by posting here, is that we might not like the advice we get. Don't take it personally and don't read more into it than is there.
The fact remains that with your license situation, what you're trying is difficult to say the least.


Have you considered buying / hiring a van in the UK for your tour and selling it / returning it afterwards. I know a couple of bands who have done that. The advantage is that you are dealing with UK insurers who are at least sane when it comes to the like of you and me.

That leaves you with the problem of getting any gear you have to the uk first, or hiring / buying same there.
here's another way round it.

Do you have a friend in the UK who'd let on you live with him?
You could do it that way too. In other words, buy the van there ( which you're planning anyway), drive it back here on UK plates and sensible UK insurance to pick the lads up, and then go back and do your tour.

You are then allowed to drive it in the state temporarily for a year, if I'm not mistaken.

bombidol

Well the plan as it stands for this tour is to fly over and rent a small van over there. We'll see how things progress though.

overdriver

How will you tackle gear?

bombidol

For this one we are going to use our friends gear who are going on the tour with us. They are based in the UK, so we'll check in our Guitars etc and just use their stuff. unless of course i have some kind of vehicle by then and i can ferry it over.

maidhc

bombidol wrote:

UK tour coming up in November and I was hoping to have it all sorted by then but it looks like it wont be.

Not unless you have a full licence for November.

Blue850

Will it be very expensive to insure a van on a provisional? how about a small engined estate? 1.4 Astra or 1.3 Skoda Felicia?

Savman

overdriver wrote:

Look, I play music for a living, so i feel your pain. No insurance company will touch you carrying music stuff around. Ridiculous, I know. But there it is.

Actually I'm insured with QD. My occupation? Musician. Provisional. Go figure. :rolleyes:

bombidol wrote:

trying to consolidate all the band and gear into one motor

You have the right idea chief but it's not that simple. As overdriver said, let the rest of the band bunk into a car and try get all the backline etc. into one van. even that would be an accomplishment.

In our band we use 3 small vans, I long for the day when we just get everything and everyone into the one vehicle but it's a long way off. Plus then you're 100% reliant on 1 engine to get you from one end of the country to the other...I hope you're in the AA

After a small van, a trailer is your next best option but you're into different license category here and I'm pretty sure you cant get a prov license for Car + Trailer until you pass full test for Car alone. It's not all doom and gloom, but there's been some half-decent advice on this thread so far which is worthy of due attention...

Savman

Blue850 wrote:

Will it be very expensive to insure a van on a provisional? how about a small engined estate? 1.4 Astra or 1.3 Skoda Felicia?

No more expensive than a 1.4 Astra car. The van only has Driver + 1 passenger seat so only insured for 2 pax, what you need to be wary of is the extra loading from insurance companies. If it sounds expensive (ie music gear) they'll add a hefty chunk onto yer premium. It's not easy but it can be done...

overdriver

Savman wrote:

Actually I'm insured with QD. My occupation? Musician. Provisional. Go figure. :rolleyes:



You have the right idea chief but it's not that simple. As overdriver said, let the rest of the band bunk into a car and try get all the backline etc. into one van. even that would be an accomplishment.

In our band we use 3 small vans, I long for the day when we just get everything and everyone into the one vehicle but it's a long way off. Plus then you're 100% reliant on 1 engine to get you from one end of the country to the other...I hope you're in the AA

After a small van, a trailer is your next best option but you're into different license category here and I'm pretty sure you cant get a prov license for Car + Trailer until you pass full test for Car alone. It's not all doom and gloom, but there's been some half-decent advice on this thread so far which is worthy of due attention...

The wagons wouldn't quote me at all. Theree is no rhyme or reason to it!


The one engine point is very valid, too. In an emergency you could all bunk in together somehow and get to your gig. The show must go on!

Savman

overdriver wrote:

The wagons wouldn't quote me at all. Theree is no rhyme or reason to it!

Well this is motor insurance we're on about!

overdriver

I did call them, and get this - they told me Musician was not "a commercial occupation" so they wouldn't quote me for the Hiace.
:eek: :eek:

Savman

overdriver wrote:

I did call them, and get this - they told me Musician was not "a commercial occupation" so they wouldn't quote me for the Hiace.
:eek: :eek:

The mind boggles. I've got a private motor policy with them as well so the commercial was a 2nd policy, dunno if that made any difference.

Because I was using up my NCB on the private car, I was a Prov with 0 NCB on the van (which was only a 1.4 petrol Vauxhall Combo). It wasnt cheap but it was either that or Britton Insurance who only offered 3rd party (no fire, no theft :eek:)

zilog_jones

maidhc wrote:

Not unless you have a full licence for November.

Good point - provisionals aren't valid outside Ireland!

bombidol

Yeah i was told that in Scotland last week. doesnt make any sense. i could pull strings and get the test reasonably soon but i want to pass the feckin thing!