Dish Alignment Woes

Donaldo

I know this has been posted before, and I have read suggestions, followed links, and have spent 3 hours struggling before I posted this so here goes . . .

I'm trying to get a Lidl dish (the smaller one they did about 4 months ago) working with my Sky digibox and Sky card. I have a Sat finder and tried aligning the dish at similar angles to the existing Sky dish on my roof (I have the Lidl dish on a tripod in by back garden). When the alighnment is similar to the Sky dish, I can get squeaking on the Sat finder (only with the frequency turned fairly high) but the TV keeps telling me 'Unable to find Satellite".

As I say, spent about 3 hours moving this around yesterday to no avail. Any tips would be greatly received.

Don

Ulsterman 1690

1) Check the elevation setting on the LIDL dish is correct for your lattitude and the satellite position you are trying to recieve

2) After youve positioned the dish so that the meter is squeaking unplug the digibox from the mains for a few seconds and plug it back in.

Donaldo

Ulsterman 1690 wrote:

1) Check the elevation setting on the LIDL dish is correct for your lattitude and the satellite position you are trying to recieve

Thanks Ulsterman. Is there a scientific way to check the elevation? I was kind of just trying to replicate the position of my existing dish. Three things I think I know are:

1. I need the dish to point 28degrees east of due south to pick up the Astra 2 satellite

2. It is the Astra 2 satellite I need for Sky.

2. The natural shape of the dish will effectively give the correct elevation of 22degrees when it is placed vertically?

watty

1) It is bit more east, almost exactly South East. As we west of Greenwich and north of equator and 22,500 below the satellite.

2) yes. Also Eurobird, There are actually 3 or 4 satelllites in simlar part of sky
that look like one satellite to your dish.

3) Correectish. It is an offset dish so it will be close to vertical. many dishes have an elevation scale. Look carefully at the rear of dish where it adjusts.

Yon need better than 1 degree accuracy up/down and left/right to get a signal. The LNB may need rotated a bit clockwise or anticlockwise to peak the "quality bar" when you have the signal peaked. (Called Skew)

IF you have the wrong satellite, the Sky box will not be usefull. There are sats at 13E, 16, 19, 23.5E, 25.5E, 28.2E, 33E, 39E that can be received on an 80cm dish. some are not visible on a smaller dish. As you move to 13E the elevation is more, as you move to 42E the elevation is less (42E on offset dish it looks as if you are pointing at ground).

Highest elevation is around 8W in Cork/Limerik/Galway and then it drops again as you go more west,

Trevord

If you are using the lidl satfinder with the led meter, then in my experience you won't have a viewable sat signal until you get a full set of lights with the meter knob turned down to about 1/4 (pointing at around 10 o clock).

With that meter continuously up to full you'll find nothing other than by chance. Try to alway keep knob at lowest possible level that produces a beep or a light (try with knob at 12 o clock first) and when stongest position is found turn the knob down to 11 o clock and repeat.

As mentioned above you might be finding another sat or you might have an issue with an obstacle in the line of sight to the satillite.

Try turning dish to left and right of where it is so that lnb moves through a distance of about 6 inches either side of where you are currently pointing.

If by chance you are currently picking up Hotbird you also need to lower the elevation a bit - maybe down an inch of two for the LNB in order be at right elevation for Astra 28.2E (Sky).

Donaldo

watty wrote:

1) Highest elevation is around 8W in Cork/Limerik/Galway and then it drops again as you go more west,

Not sure I quite understand this Watty? I am in Cork, what is the significance of this 8W?

Am I looking to get an elevation of 22degrees to pick up Astra 2?

Tony

all the satellites appear as an arc in the sky, the highest point of the arc is where 8w is located. So say for example you stumble across 8w you then know that to get to hotbird you need to go east with the dish and a little lower and astra 2 further east and a little lower again. The trick is to find your first satellite, identify and then using this information find the satellite you really want.

Hope this helps

Donaldo

Tony wrote:

all the satellites appear as an arc in the sky, the highest point of the arc is where 8w is located. So say for example you stumble across 8w you then know that to get to hotbird you need to go east with the dish and a little lower and astra 2 further east and a little lower again. The trick is to find your first satellite, identify and then using this information find the satellite you really want.

Hope this helps

Thanks Tony, might be a stupid quesiton, but using the Sky Digibox, how do I know I've found my first Satellite and how do I identify which one it is?

Tony

Donaldo wrote:

Thanks Tony, might be a stupid quesiton, but using the Sky Digibox, how do I know I've found my first Satellite and how do I identify which one it is?

you can only use the digibox to identify astra 1 or hotbird as its limited in that regard. You enter the freq of a known transponder (saw another thread with this info last night) and you compare what your looking at with a listing of channels only available from that satellite EG Astra 1 is mainly german channels

Ulsterman 1690

There is another way of knowing what satellie you are on with a digibox but its rather crude and fiddly

Press "Services" followed by "system Setup" and "Signal Test"

Look at the "Network ID"
If it reads "0002" you have Astra 2
If it reads "0001" you have Astra 1
If it reads "013e" you have Hotbird
If it reads "0000" you have Nothing (or an unidentified satellite)

What makes it a pain to use is say youre moving the dish around and you get say hotbird after a couple of seconds the "Network ID" will change to "013e" -So far so good

But if you move it off Hotbird the damn thing stays at "013e" And more often than not stays that way even if you hit another satellite

The only way to reset the "Network ID" back to "0000" is to unplug the box from the mains for about four seconds or more then plug it back in and look for "Network ID" in the menus again

Beta Bill

Slight deviation from the topic. I waited patiently for the 80cm Lidl dish deal that they had recently and installed mine. Firstly the sat meters (I have three types) were no use at all. I ended up paying a Sat dude €100 to get the thing to work. He said the receiver was programmed wrong for German satellite and thats why I couldnt get a signal. Nopt sure I bought his story but was fed up and just wanted the thing to work. I tried for days to get the thing working. To add insult to injury I notice with the windy weather today the dish is bobbing around more than I'd like it to. I tightened it up good but seems the post supplied is not up to the job. Fact the dish is solid is not helping either. Should I change the post for something better - if so what, is this common to have a dish move when its windy? Never done on eof these before so would appreicate adivce from those who are experienced at this sort of stuff. Cheers.

Ulsterman 1690

The brackets sold with Lidl dishes are pure junk

If you want decent brackets ask Tony at satellite.ie

watty

Mesh dish can actually have higher wind lkoading as the small holes straight on have high resistance and at any angle to wind dish is less smoth so more wind load. Only when mesh gets as open as fence wire (UHF Dish) does the windload decrease much.

The Lidl brackets are too flimsey. 2" pole on K T bracket pair.

Donaldo

Trevord wrote:

If you are using the lidl satfinder with the led meter, then in my experience you won't have a viewable sat signal until you get a full set of lights with the meter knob turned down to about 1/4 (pointing at around 10 o clock).

With that meter continuously up to full you'll find nothing other than by chance. Try to alway keep knob at lowest possible level that produces a beep or a light (try with knob at 12 o clock first) and when stongest position is found turn the knob down to 11 o clock and repeat.

As mentioned above you might be finding another sat or you might have an issue with an obstacle in the line of sight to the satillite.

Try turning dish to left and right of where it is so that lnb moves through a distance of about 6 inches either side of where you are currently pointing.

If by chance you are currently picking up Hotbird you also need to lower the elevation a bit - maybe down an inch of two for the LNB in order be at right elevation for Astra 28.2E (Sky).

One question regarding the Lidl satfinder - when you get beeps and lights and you think you have found the sat you are looking for, do you need to disconnect the satfinder before you can pick up a picture on the TV or will it work with the Satfinder still connected?

netwhizkid

Donaldo wrote:

One question regarding the Lidl satfinder - when you get beeps and lights and you think you have found the sat you are looking for, do you need to disconnect the satfinder before you can pick up a picture on the TV or will it work with the Satfinder still connected?

No you can view on either your Digibox or Lidl FTA Box with the Meter still attached, it is one handy little feature it as, I found disconnecting the lead from the LNB could throw it off slightly, this can be done with either the earpiece beeber or the Red LED meter with the dial on it. Alternatively if you have a different meter you could connect it to the Dual LNB and connect the cable to the receiver to the other output.

Trevord

Donaldo wrote:

One question regarding the Lidl satfinder - when you get beeps and lights and you think you have found the sat you are looking for, do you need to disconnect the satfinder before you can pick up a picture on the TV or will it work with the Satfinder still connected?

Yes you will get TV signal with satfinder attached. I don't think the sat finder even reduces the signal strength or quality

If you have full lights with finder turned down to 1/4 on the knob, you should have a Sat signal.

Do you have the lidl receiver also? (swap it with your skybox just to make sure there is no issue with the sky box)

You will begin to get a picture when signal strength is as low as about 60 I think and quality about 40.

Scan across the various preinstalled satellites on the receiver. If you still see nothing try a few different channels within easch sat list. If you are slightly off target some may still display in a pixelated format or come on and off periodically.

Another thing to check is the way you attached the satfinder.

Make sure its attached at the Sat end (of the cable between sat and receiver) rather than the receiver end.

Turn the satfinder over to look at the back. One terminal says lnb and the other says receiver. Have you connected it the right way round?

Other possibilites:

Is the scart cable connected to tv properly ? Can you at least see a "no singal" screen on tv?

Is there a tv/sat switch button on the receiver remote to toggle back and forth with tv? Is yes is sat option selected ?

Is there is more than one scart cable connected to tv (eg another scart for a dvd player - that might be turned on) is the right ext feed selected on tv?

If you can answer some of these q's then some more possibilities can be ruled out.

Beta Bill

I have a twin LNB, one 'port' has a Lidl Silvercrest receiver, excellent signal sound and on screen display. I bought a second basic receiver 'Metronic' I think in Maplins. Having a lot of bother with that unit, there's a hissing sound or interference in the background on the TV unit and the colours fade and recover constantly in mild but noticeable and irritating waves. All in all the second unit is a major dissapointment as I need it as part of my long term plan to ditch Chorus. I'm gonna swop the receivers to see if that makes any difference but has anyone come accross this b4?

watty

Are you using a SCART connection to TV or has Metronic got RF out. Use SCART, fully wired individual coax RGB perferred. On TVs with more than one SCART, only one might support RGB.

I have seen the Metronic only in Maplin on demo and it seemed fine. If it faulty take it back.

Never seen the fault you describe

dobsdave

I had the metronic receiver for a while, and only sold it because I needed smart card access.
Was very happy with it, crystal clear sound/picture.
The way you describe the problem,it sounds like a scart not fully connected.
I have also seen that problem when using one of those cheap scart selector boxes.(the ones that you get in tesco for a tenner, that automatically switch scart input to your TV.) They're not up to the job.

Best of luck!!

Beta Bill

Thanks for the reponses. The unit did not come with SCART to my amazement so I bought a SCART lead in a local hardware. Only thing about that it was a cheap SCART €4.99 job perhaps not up to the job? - I will try another SCART on it. The TV I have is pretty good and has three SCART ports, tow unsed by VCR, Chorus etc.

The coax cable I bought in a TV shop - I know it has to be suitable for satellite as some coax is to thin or not suited. The guy in the shop said they use it for NTL broadband all the time and that it was suitable. Now I am sceptical but then when you have a problem you have to explore every possibility. Thanks again ...

Beta Bill

Here's a brief update on my last posting. The Metronics unit is a piece of crap, I tried another receiver using the same scart and co-ax and the picture and sound was 100%. Proves the Metronics unit is close to useless so dont buy one of those. I'm bringing mine back to Maplins for a refund.........

6FB

I bought 2 Lidl dishes about a year ago, one for me and another for the brother-in-law. The kit containes a satellite finder, but no way to patch it in-line between the box and the LNB. Once I got a patch lead, it was fairly easy to allign, though I had to do it again after a gale as I didn't tighten the bolts enough.

I was at a car boot sale during the summer and got a PACE Sky Digibox complete with an expired card, Sky remote (Battries included) for 10 Euros. It works great on the dual LNB. Later I was dumping some old paint tins in the Recycling Center (Very good of me) and was rewarded by finding a second complete Sky box. Both decoders work fine with the Lidl equipment...

Who needs NTL.:)

Beta Bill

I have the Lidl 80cm dual LNB dish set up on my house. The Comag SL65 receiver is great (menus etc) and picks up most channels. I bought a second receiver 'Inverto' from a nice chap in Zintek (he also gave me a free S braket for the Lidl dish as the bracket supplied looks like it wont survive an Irish winter). :eek:

Anyway, on the Inverto receiver I can pick up a kids channel 'Tiny Pop' which my 3 1/2 yr old loves. I tried to tune the same channel in on the Comag SL65 but cant seem to pick it up. :mad: Is it possible that one receiver could pick up a channel that another cant on the same dish/lnb etc ?? I tried to replicate as best I could the settings on the Inverto over to the Comag - although the lingo in the menus is slightly different I played around with it for ages without success.

My 3 1/2 yr old would appreciate any help anyone can offer as its her only real alternative to CBeebies/CBBC etc!!!.

dobsdave

Beta Bill wrote:

........ Proves the Metronics unit is close to useless so dont buy one of those. .........

I also bought one of those and it worked fine, I think it PROVES that the unit is excellent and everyone should buy one:D
I dont have shares in Metronic (Honest).
Good to see you got sorted eventually.

watty

Tiny Pop will work. You must have made an error:
"Add transponder" or "Transponder search"

Frequency
Polarity H or V
Symbol rate.
FEC is automatic

Beta Bill

Okay Tiny Pop is on Astra 2 ? I can see Astra 2 on my Comag and the signal intensity is 56%, quality 72%. If I do a scan for FTA I get only a few radio channels. If I select all I get about 6-7 scrambled channels including RTE1 etc but nothing else and no Tiny Pop.

On Astra2 TP Setup the options are:-

TP Index........... 1/1
TP Frequency.....10744 MHz
Symbol Rate.......22000 k/s
Polarity......H
Scan Mode ...........All

Any idea where I am going wrong!?!

[I take back what I said about Metronic but stand over the fact it gave lousy performance for me....]

watty

TinyPop = 11426 V SR 27,500

You are doing a satellite scan of EXISTING transponders on your Comag. Add the missing ones in a separate menu. I know ALL the Comag's have such a menu that lets you add a specific transponder and scan it.

A comprehensive list here:
http://www.lyngsat.com/28east.html

This is a problem for ALL "non-Sky digibox" receivers. The built in database gets out of date. The Sky Digibox is automatically updated.