"Should i stay or should i fold now"

Flushdraw

Playin a cash game in the SE last night, i was put in a tough spot a couple of times but i'd like ur thoughts on the following 2 hands.

Bearing in mind, the 2 players in question, Oberon and Vinny (Grey haired aul fella with a tasche) are LAG. Oberon has a lot of play to his game and would have no problem putting his tank on a complete bluff and vinny will almost always bet once theres a couple of checks into him and then follow through... I have a 600+ stack for both hands

I'm in BB with Kc 2d
Flop comes Ks 4c 5c
I check, vinny bets 15, oberon calls 15, i raise to 45
vinny folds, oberon calls 45
turn 3h, oberon checks, i lead for 140, oberon goes all in for 370
me?

i have Ad Ac UTG, raise to 7 and 5 callers
flop comes 3d 6h 9s
vinny bets 25 from SB, i raise to 100
Vinny calls
Turn is 5h and vinny pushes for 210
me?

pppspecial

im calling both times.

5starpool

I hate the first situation. As played I call as you are likely ahead of a lot of Oberons hands here. Likely he has something like a flushdraw, or a flushdraw and straight draw such as 6c8c or 7c8c. You are getting almost 3/1 and against him I think that is enough in this situation to account for being ahead some times as is, and drawing out on other hands some other times.

Hand 2 - Call every time for me.

bubthatub

i would call both times

ianmc38

Tony I think both hands are a fold.

Hand 1 I don't like your check-raise on the flop. Check call is better, especially against oberon.

There's no doubt you're beaten on the turn. Your line looks extremely strong. You've checkraised the flop and bet big on the turn yet he's still happy to push all-in. I'm sure Obi has at least 2 pair here. Fold.

Hand 2 is closer, but looks like 78. Because it's Vinny, i'd be closer to calling. All you're really beating here is A9.

Flushdraw

ianmc38 wrote:

Tony I think both hands are a fold.

Hand 1 I don't like your check-raise on the flop. Check call is better, especially against oberon.

There's no doubt you're beaten on the turn. Your line looks extremely strong. You've checkraised the flop and bet big on the turn yet he's still happy to push all-in. I'm sure Obi has at least 2 pair here. Fold.

Hand 2 is closer, but looks like 78. Because it's Vinny, i'd be closer to calling. All you're really beating here is A9.

My thinking on Hand 1 was that if Oberon had much of the flop, he would have reraised Vinny instead of letting all remaining players call the 15 for "value" and also giving them a chance to catch their possible flushes and straights. I guessed he was looking for a free card himself

LuckyLloyd

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spectre

Tbh, both villains would have to be complete maniacs for you to be ahead here.

In the first hand you made a big mistake on the flop. By the turn, you have a very weak holding, you're out of position and the pot is large. It's difficult from the SB but with weak holding like K2, you need to keep the pot small.

It sounds like wishful thinking to say that he probably has a draw, this is not true, you are most likely beat.

However, If he is good enough to detect that you are in fact weak, and you think it possible that he is trying this with air, you can justify a call.

The second hand is another fold. You raised to 7 UTG and pretty much everyone called - This may as well be an un-raised pot. He could have any two cards. He has shown enormous strength, he is not afraid of your obvious over-pair and probably thinks that you will pay off his 2-pair/straight.

cardshark202

I don't know this oberon chap but against most players both these hands are folds i think.

Flushdraw

About 10 hands prior to Hand 1, i played a pot against Oberon.

I had 10 8o in BB. Oberon raised to 10 from SB. i call plus 3 others. Flop comes 10 9 7 (2 clubs)

Oberon bets 35, i call, limpers fold

Turn comes 9x. Oberon bets 80, i raise to 250, he dwells a long time and calls.

River Jx. He bets 350, i call (250 approx) with a straight and he mucks, said he had a high 10 so i think from now on, he wants his money back off me!

Flushdraw

spectre wrote:

Tbh, both villains would have to be complete maniacs for you to be ahead here.

QUOTE]

You just hit the nail on the head

Gholimoli

u played hand 1 really badley.
first of all why are check raising there?they will drop everything that u beat and hold on to everything that beats you.
usually you check raise either with a strong hand or as a bluff.here you have nither.
then on the turn why are you betting big after he is checking to you?

if he has better K than your beat ,if he was on a str draw then it just got there,the only hand you beat now is a flush draw.
you made the pot extreamly big and whats worse is that you have even prised your self out of it even thoough you may very well have the best hand.
as played fold.


hand 2 call.

LuckyLloyd

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Flushdraw

Hand 2. I felt on the flop that Vinny had one/top pair and the heart on the turn gave him a flush draw so after thinking for 3/4 minutes i decided to go with my gut instict and call. Llyod was spot on, he had 9h 8h. A blank on the river and i collected the pot.

Hand 1 was a lot more trickier. When i checked the flop, i intended to give it up if there was a bet. When vinny bet, i was going to fold but oberons call gave me an opportunity to bluff with possibly the best hand so i raised. It was oberons weak call that made me think he had FA of the flop. 90% of the time, he would reraise here with a hand.

I followed through with my bet on the turn to try and take it down as i put him on a draw or maybe middle pair. When he pushed, i put myself in his position and i was thinking what i would have done if i was oberon. He made a good bet, with also a semi bluff so i figured that if i was behind, i had outs for an up and down straight, another king and possibly a 2 but the fact that i thought i was ahead gave me the extra incentive to call.

I called and a 2h on the river gave me 2 pair, Oberon declared 2 pair. we both had K 2 and chopped the pot, then he berated me for not having the correct odds to call...thats oberon for ya!

LuckyLloyd

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RoundTower

I really do not like the way you played in hand 1. As played I call both times, maybe fold the 1st.

Flushdraw

RoundTower wrote:

I really do not like the way you played in hand 1. As played I call both times, maybe fold the 1st.

I dont particularly like the way i played the hand myself RT, and 99% of the time against 99% of players its an automatic fold.

Flushdraw

Thanks Llyod. Unlucky on the nut flush losing to the straight flush for ur tank btw. Off to the red cow now to try and win me a ticket for their big event. The more the merrier!

LuckyLloyd

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