Unforgiven & HIAC mathes in general

Dickmcsavage

Well Unforgiven was, to be honest, only a mediocre PPV. The main reason that I felt a little dissapointed by it was in fact the Hell in a cell match. As with every HIAC match there is always great potential for a truly epic match due to the nature of the structure but in recent years the matches have been totally confided to the inside of the cage. Whats the point in this I wonder? If the match doesn't leave the cage, well then its just a hardcore match thats actually limited to where the match can go. No brawling in the crowd, no use of the commentary tables, nothing. It makes me think, does WWE feel that wrestling on the roof of the cage is too dangerous? Well when Jericho and HHH had their HIAC match a couple of years ago at Judgment Day, there didn't seem to be any problems at all. Even Mike Keota, a feckin' referee, decided that climbing to the top of the cage was perfectly safe and HHH was even able to not only get back dropped, but also perform the pedigree on top of the cage without even a slight bit strain from the roof. Im not entirely sure but I think that was the last HIAC match to leave the cage. Anyway Im sure alot of feel the same way about this. Its very irritating.

Vince135792003

I think your criticism of HIAC is harsh on a number of levels. Firstly on a pretty simple level the whole psychology of a cell/cage match is that theres no escape. So it would look a little strange if everytime they did a HIAC they kept escaping.

Not every HIAC match has to be Undertaker V Mankind 1998 or Jack v Triple H 2000 style to work. Lesnar and Undertaker had a really really physical match in 2002 that was really well done but totally different to the the ones just mentioned. Your never gonna top what Mick Foley did so it makes sense to work a different style of match.

You mentioned why don't they do spots on top of the cage. Well the one thing the crowd will want if you scale the cae is for someone to get thrown off. If your not gonna do that spot, I see no reason to go up there.


Unforgiven was a thumbs up from me. The main event really did deliver and credit to both guys involved. They held nothing back. But on the whole there was nothing really negative about the show and the majority of the matches were at least good.

The finishes for alot of the matches were particuliarly creative I thought too.

Minto

Vince135792003 wrote:

The finishes for alot of the matches were particuliarly creative I thought too.

I agree, on a whole the PPV had a lot of potential and lived up to it (for the most part, i'm still pissed off that Cena won!).

HIAC should have been later in the show though!

Dickmcsavage

In response to Vince135792003: I see what your saying there. My feeling is just that if the wrestlers were to leave the cage, it would add another level of excitment to the match although I definitly dont want to see Foley moments recreated either. The Hiac match between Jericho and HHH didn't involve anyone being tossed from the top of the cage when they were on the roof yet I would still rank it as one of the best HIAC matches. It was a pretty amazing sight to see the pedigree being perormed 20ft above the ground. Also another reason I was dissapointed about the HIAC match at Unforgiven was because of Shane McMahon. I don't have anything against the guy in fact I enjoy watching him wrestle as well as act. Its just that he is sort of known for taking some really crazy bumps on PPV and so with him in the HIAC I thought he would have done something to matchsome of the stuff he has done in the past.

Mr.Nice Guy

I liked Unforgiven. I felt the HIAC match was OK. I don't think wrestlers should leave the cell as it's impossible in my view to top the Foley bumps anyway.

The only thing that really irked me were the final 2 booking decisions. I don't know why Orton and Cena went over. Perhaps they will be involved in a feud from now on but I see Carlito as a rising star and I feel he has suffered a setback due to losing cleanly to Orton.

Edge deserves props in particular for his performance last night. The master of TLC as far as I'm concerned.

Xylophonic

Is it just me or did Cena not look to happy after winning the title?

Vince135792003

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

The only thing that really irked me were the final 2 booking decisions.

I disagree. I think Edge has done really well as a champ. No doubt about it. But right now Cena is the guy. Whether people like him or hate him he's viewed as a superstar right now and theres money to be made with him having the title.

Thats really what it boils down to. Who will draw the most with the belt at a given time? Right now its definitely Cena.

As for Carlito and Orton I think it was a no win situation. Orton has done a hell of alot of jobs lately and to do another one would have really hurt him. But the feud could continue and they could trade victories.

Minto

I think (well i hope anyway) that Edge will recapture the title from Cena at Survivor Series, cos they will be finished promoting 'The Marine'. Thats why Cena has the title right now! It's the same as when he released his CD.

Dickmcsavage

Im really not sure whats going to happen now with regards to the title picture. I believe Orton should get a look in but they may be saving an Orton/Cena feud for Wrestlemania seeing as they are two of the biggest rising stars in the industry. I dont see Edge just forgetting about the loss either. I think theres still a bit of juice left in that feud.

Mr.Nice Guy

Vince135792003 wrote:

I disagree. I think Edge has done really well as a champ. No doubt about it. But right now Cena is the guy. Whether people like him or hate him he's viewed as a superstar right now and theres money to be made with him having the title.

I wouldn't go along with that. For me, Edge is THE guy of 2006. It's only September but I think the guy has been the greatest performer of the year bar none.

Vince135792003 wrote:

Thats really what it boils down to. Who will draw the most with the belt at a given time? Right now its definitely Cena.

You sure about that? Because I see more money in an Edge-DX feud then I do in a Cena-Umaga feud.

Vince135792003 wrote:

As for Carlito and Orton I think it was a no win situation. Orton has done a hell of alot of jobs lately and to do another one would have really hurt him. But the feud could continue and they could trade victories.

I agree with you that this was a tough one to call but I see no sense in having Orton go over clean. If Orton had won through typical heel tactics then he gets some momentum while Carlito stays strong. I just felt Carlito suffered a lot of damage from last night and I'm interested in seeing how they deal with it.

Stalfos

Xylophonic wrote:

Is it just me or did Cena not look to happy after winning the title?

WWE claim it to be cena being pissed that Edge was over and put on a better proformance than him. here's the link

As for Unforgiven, i thought it was a very good PPV. ALot better the crap i paid for with Summerslam. I thought unforgiven would have been a bad ppv too but decided to watch it anyway and it was worth the watch tbh.

Trish's last match was very good, Nitro Vs Jeff Hardy was the best i've seen from Jeff in a while. Even Edge Vs Cena was a good match. Nothing like a real TLC and i felt sorry for Cena nearly as he couldn't do anything in the match and just let Edge carry him though it.
The HIAC match was great aswell. Was a good idea to make the cage bigger too as to throw out any idea of them climbing up it. Only poor match was Orton and Carlito. Finisher to it was a bit dumb too. Kane and Umaga was alrite but not great.

Vince135792003

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

You sure about that? Because I see more money in an Edge-DX feud then I do in a Cena-Umaga feud.
.

There's a fair chance you'll see both. Maybe at the same time. I'm not trying to bring Edge down. He's done great and if I were to move anyone to Smackdown it would be him and make him the heel champ feuding with Rey.

But does he draw better than Cena? Clearly not. Nobody does in the WWE right now. Loved or hated he's the one guy that gets a superstar reaction night in night out.

Cena while obviously not on the level of a Hogan or an Austin is a mini gravy train. House show business is up this year with the biggest reason being that its kids and parents going to see him alone, he's a huge merchandise seller and as well they have a got a film with him in it to promote that has double the money spent on it than See No Evil.

Also I think you have to give credit to Cena for the TLC match too. It takes two in a match like that. Is he a better worker than Edge? No. But he's far better than he's given credit for and has turned it up a notch this year.

As for Carlito, the rumour is he's going to ECW.

jongore

Vince135792003 wrote:

But does he draw better than Cena? Clearly not. Nobody does in the WWE right now. Loved or hated he's the one guy that gets a superstar reaction night in night out.

Cena while obviously not on the level of a Hogan or an Austin is a mini gravy train. House show business is up this year with the biggest reason being that its kids and parents going to see him alone, he's a huge merchandise seller and as well they have a got a film with him in it to promote that has double the money spent on it than See No Evil.

Also I think you have to give credit to Cena for the TLC match too. It takes two in a match like that. Is he a better worker than Edge? No. But he's far better than he's given credit for and has turned it up a notch this year.

Have to agree, Cena is the man at WWE at the moment and as long as House Shows are up and Merchendising is selling both WWE mangement and the WWE superstars will be happy for him to stay there.

Edge has been hugely impressive but he does not draw as much, the normal WWE fan will go to watch Edge or Cena, but Cena draws from women and kids who don't normaly attend WWE events.

It's not a matter of who's the better wrestler it's a matter of who makes the company more money.

triple h

two things i agree on that were said here.
mr nice guy ' edge is the man of 2006'
jongore ' cena brings in the women and kids'

oneofakind32

Damn I cant find any of Unforgiven on line. Anyone know where I can get some videos? (PM me!)

Mr.Nice Guy

Vince135792003 wrote:

Cena while obviously not on the level of a Hogan or an Austin is a mini gravy train. House show business is up this year with the biggest reason being that its kids and parents going to see him alone, he's a huge merchandise seller and as well they have a got a film with him in it to promote that has double the money spent on it than See No Evil.

No doubt Cena is the biggest draw but I don't think he needs the strap for that position. I think it would have been a better business decision to keep Cena hunting for the gold.

My feeling is they gave him the belt to further promote his film The Marine.

Vince135792003 wrote:

Also I think you have to give credit to Cena for the TLC match too. It takes two in a match like that. Is he a better worker than Edge? No. But he's far better than he's given credit for and has turned it up a notch this year.

Yes I'll give him credit for the match too. He definitely worked hard.

Mossy Monk

oneofakind32 wrote:

Damn I cant find any of Unforgiven on line. Anyone know where I can get some videos? (PM me!)

why go online when you can order it on PPV

Minto

Mossy Monk wrote:

why go online when you can order it on PPV

Why order it on PPV, when you can watch it free on Sky Sports! I think the replay is tommorow night at 9 (could be wrong though)!

Mossy Monk

didnt realise Sky Sports was free now. might put up my satellite dish again

Roar

think minto was saying that its not a ppv on sky sports... still have to pay for sky sports though...

gimmick

I thought that was one of the best brand only PPVs in quite a while.

Nitro Vs Hardy I thought was excellent. Really good match, with nice mat wrestling, a few high spots, and a few close falls. The ending made no sense whatsoever. It hurt both imo, in that it didnt put either man over. A clean win for Hardy would have been a better outcome for both here, as at worst for Nitro it would have shown him as a top competitor.

Kane Vs Umaga. Meh. Nothing.

Scottish guys Vs Spirit Squad. I enjoyed this, but then I am an SS mark. Glad they picked up the win, as i feel the Scots gimmick is too 80s altogether. Thought Mikey showed what he is worth in this match.

HIAC. Gore fest. I thought this was great. Laughed my head off at Vinces reaction to seeing Shows butt. Hopefully this is the end of this fued. I always like when Shane is in a match, as he adds a certain variable which inevitably leaves him on a stretcher after another crazy bump. Im interested to see what happens next. Hopefully McMahons will be off TV for a while, and DX get a tad more serious.

Trish Vs Lita. Good match again, even if Lita is a mess. Great way for Trish to go.

Orton Vs Carlito. I thoght this match was great, and was a good window to the future as these two guys will be headliners for years to come. Great ending, which i think made both look good, but served more to show Ortons ring savvy, and that Carlito is a great wrestler, who is just a tad inexperienced.

TLC. While I am disguested that Cena won, it was a top match. MTFO for the FU at the end. As much as I dislike Cena though, the guy is the best tweener I can ever remember in WWE. He played the part of the heel excellently, even in his victory he looked very much the heel.

Ill get into the other debates re HIAC and Cenas win tomorrow when i have fark all else to do at work.

8/10 for the PPV anyway.