Should the Pope apologise?

Cy Kotic

..and if so why?

EOA_Mushy

Em... for what? Existing?

Start another holy war, just like invading countries, its the new fashion.

Space Coyote

EOA you obviously don't read newspapers or watch the news?

Yes he should apologise, although I personally don't care if he does or not. If organised religion was banned the world would be a better place...in my opinion.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Who gives a ****? It's like watching to bald arses fighting over a comb

smemon

hmmmm... that reminds me look what i seen a few weeks ago...

Nightwish

All he said was that fear and terror were no way to spread the word of Islam (and the christians should know that by now...the crusades were a real success :rolleyes:). So he was just speaking the truth as far as I'm concerned.

EOA_Mushy

Space Coyote wrote:

EOA you obviously don't read newspapers or watch the news?

1) If it obvious, why are you asking a question?

The point of watching the news or reading the paper has brought you to a position where you think a THE safe bet, pope, to slander is a topic for this board.

Try it with non-nationals / Other religions / Governments.... blah, blah, blah.
i.e. bl00dy taliban, bl00dy americans, bloody bush!!!!
Whats the point? Are you doing any thing about what you want to accomplish?

Any how religion is about the only thing you could base humanity on. People need, for what ever reason, to fight for some thing.

Make money your god if you will.

Space Coyote

By citing an obscure Medieval text that characterises Mohammed’s teachings as “evil and inhuman,” Benedict inflamed passions across the Islamic world and has aggravated fears of a “clash of civilisations.”

I think by mentioning the words Mohammed, evil, and inhuman in the same sentence was just asking for trouble. It's just adding to the flames of hatred between the West and the Islamists. Flames of hatred, I made that up. I am so smart, s..m..r..t

EOA_Mushy

Buy a gun. It may turn out to be usefull in the next 10 years.

Or considering that the people on this planet with the most money want guns to be sold....... Get the point!

Dave!

Link?

1huge1

Cy Kotic wrote:

..and if so why?

yes he should appologise
he knew what he was saying the whole time and it was a sneaky thing to say

smemon

Space Coyote wrote:

If organised religion was banned the world would be a better place...in my opinion.

well said my catholic friend

religion is the cause of war, not the solution to it. God is ultimately the cause of all major wars so we should fight our deep urges to go to mass, pray, draw muslim cartoons etc...

and instead stay at home in bed for an extra hour on a sunday morning - not only would we benefit from extra sleep and resulting higher energy levels, we would also be doing it for the good of mankind.

analyse that

Space Coyote

Link

http://news.google.ie/nwshp?hl=en&tab=wn&q=pope

Rosser

should he fu*k. He said absolutely nothing offensive

Mossy Monk

you cant say or do anything these days without the hard line Muslims getting upset. the Pope did no wrong

Space Coyote

Nothing offensive to a rational human being, but to an extreme Islamist he might aswell have wiped his @rse with a photo of Mohammed.

mukki

Well he can't really apoligise....

that would be just admitting that he can be wrong


but yeah all religions should be banned, some guy said above that you should turn to money instead, sure most religions are just a "guilbal people=money" scam

actually i want a bit of the action....

wonder can i sell salvation on ebay?

Lord Oz

Even if he did it wouldn't make any difference about anything.

MotoGuy

NO ....Dont Gave A Apology!!

Sand

No, his speech was taken out of context. If he apologises itll vindicate those who are trying to paint his speech as insulting.

99% of muslims couldnt care less, the 1% who do need to get some perspective. Itll blow over like the danish cartoons. Just some radical groups who have an interest in stirring things.

iFight

No Way!!

Chucky the tree

gotta love the pope and his mates, they have been excellent lately...

August 23

Pope Benedict XVI has sacked his chief astronomer after a series of public clashes over the theory of evolution.

He has removed Father George Coyne from his position as director of the Vatican Observatory after the American Jesuit priest repeatedly contradicted the Holy See's endorsement of "intelligent design" theory, which essentially backs the "Adam and Eve" theory of creation.

28th August

Adolf Hitler and Russian leader Stalin were possessed by the Devil, the Vatican's chief exorcist has claimed. Father Gabriele Amorth who is Pope Benedict XVI's 'caster out of demons' made his comments during an interview with Vatican Radio.

Father Amorth said: "Of course the Devil exists and he can not only possess a single person but also groups and entire populations.

"I am convinced that the Nazis were all possessed. All you have to do is think about what Hitler - and Stalin did. Almost certainly they were possessed by the Devil. You can tell by their behaviour and their actions, from the horrors they committed and the atrocities that were committed on their orders. That's why we need to defend society from demons."

September 8

Pope Benedict lashed out Friday at Canada for allowing same sex marriage and abortion, saying the policies resulted from Catholic politicians ignoring the values of their religion.

"In the name of tolerance, your country has had to endure the folly of the redefinition of spouse," the Pope told a group of bishops from Ontario. "In the name of freedom of choice, it is confronted with the daily destruction of unborn children."

September 10

Pope Benedict XVI on Sunday warned modern societies not to let faith in science and technology make them deaf to God's message, and suggested that Asia and Africa could teach the wealthier West something about faith.

Western societies are losing their souls to scientific rationality and frightening believers in the developing world who still fear God, Pope Benedict told an open-air mass in Germany on Sunday.

Benedict, on the second day of a visit to his native Bavaria, said that spreading the word of Jesus Christ was more important than all the emergency and development aid that rich churches like that in Germany gave to poor countries.

:eek:

hmmmmmmmmmm, right.........

muletide

Has anybody here actually bothered to listen/read his speech in full. He used that quote, about the spread of Islam by the sword, as an example of where Europe was in the 1400s in relation to Islam. And his point was that he wished to move away from that to a more inclusive Europe. Obviously alot of people here have just read the sun or star and formed their opinions there. He was quoted completly out of context and the press is more responsible than he for brewing up this storm in a tea cup.

In fairness it would have been fairly cheeky of a Catholic Pope to criticise the spread of religion by violence when all the actions of the Crusades are there for all to see. I dont think he is that stupid and this is just another indication of how he was quoted out of context

projectmayhem

while his speech was taken way out of context, i'll just go with the flow here because muslims seem to be up in arms over this (what a shock..).

i don't think he should apologise. it's a regularity to see the pope and western "influences" having their effigies burned in islamic countries. they also have tv stations who's names i dare not try to spell who show images of burning flags while a seihk (sp?) sings lyrics that basically talk about how the westerners are scum and should die like the pigs we are. i think the pope, even though it wasn't intended to be taken this way, was within his rights to say what he wants.

sure the end result of this will end up in more AK rounds being fired randomly at each other and plastered around sky and fox news stations...

i think muslims need to get a grip. yeah, there's racism out there. but if a bunch of irish dudes flew some planes into buildings and i went to the attacked country, i'd expect funny looks too.

Laslo

Sand wrote:

99% of muslims couldnt care less

Is that an official statistic because it seems that a disproportionate number of Muslims actually do advocate violence for various religion-centered reasons.

It's quite hilarious really. Islam is satirised as a religion of violence and what do Muslims the world over do? They foam at the mouth, riot, murder and 'observe a day of anger'! Kind of proves the cartoons right IMO. Then Iran commissions cartoons for the purpose of insulting Christians and how do Christians react? They don't bat an eyelid.

Now the Pope, quoted completely out of context, is accused of equating Islam with violence and what happens? Muslims the world over go ape, burn effigies and firebomb churches.

I'm not saying that Islam is a religion of violence... but there are a disproportionate number of Muslims who espouse extreme and demonic violence and I, for one, am utterly sick of their bile. I may well get banned for this view but it is just my opinion and I feel that I am entitled to it.

robinph

What he said was surely actually more insulting to christians than to islam. He gave an example of was some daft christian emperor had said donkeys years ago and then said that was a load of crap.

He also said in that speach that god does not exist, but I notice that no-one is bothered about taking that one line out of context though. Maybe becasue it was a bit clearer as to what he was actually talking about at that point in the speach though.

wes

Laslo wrote:

Is that an official statistic because it seems that a disproportionate number of Muslims actually do advocate violence for various religion-centered reasons.

There are 1.5 Billion Muslims, 1% would be 15 million or there abouts. So even if 1% decided to cause trouble it would seem like a hell of a lot of people. If all 1.5 Billion were really bothered don't you think there would be a bit more than the burning of effigies etc.

Anyway I don't think the Pope said anything insulting, at most maybe he should clarify what he said, but I see no need to apologise.

Snake Plisken

Fair play to the Pope, he said nothing wrong, I'm getting a bit F^cking fed up with this Muslim lot, they are all a shower of nutters, and before you all politically correct heads come out with oh they are not all bad, thats bullsh&t, from the Danish cartoons to trying to plant liquid bombs on planes all in the name of Mohammad I'm fed with them all.

Snake

Dave!

He's apologised.
http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-09-16T115828Z_01_L14330092_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-RELIGION-POPE-ISLAM-COL.XML

magick

What radical Muslims need is anger management classes

Edwardius

Apologise? **** no! As soon as abdul and his mates even hear mention of their precious little prophet we get burning effigies of the pope and chants of "death to the west". Now should the pope apologise for quoting what a guy said 500 years ago that may be taken out of context by someone looking for a fight or should the muslims apologise for burning effigies of "god's servant on earth" and cursing everything about the western way of life? Then we see some muslim head honcho sucking air through his teeth on RTE saying how offended muslims will be. Tell you what, I'm offended at having to take my shoes off at the airport because of these *****. I'm offended at the thousands of civillians killed in the name of their little religion and I'm sure plenty of women are offended at having their genitals cut out in the name of islam. I'm offended at the fact that, in britain, many muslim leaders advocate sharia law and refuse to condemn terrorist attacks perpetrated in the name of their prophet. Do we go around burning mohammed/ayatolla effigies and flying planes into their caves? No, we have better things to do like getting on with life and it's them that should be apologising.

Re the crusades: I'd understand being sore about this topic if it happened forty years ago but... It's funny, as a population we Irish are being told that we should forget hundreds of years of oppression by brits that ended relatively recently. For the most part we have and are living relatively peacefully with them. However, something that happened elsewhere 400 odd years ago still causes concern? Ridiculous.

punky

smemon wrote:

religion is the cause of war, not the solution to it. God is ultimately the cause of all major wars so we should fight our deep urges to go to mass, pray, draw muslim cartoons etc...

Religion is not the cause of war. Man is the cause of war. Religion is just one of the many excuses man uses to go to war. Many wars have been fought about issues that had nothing to do with religion. Atheitistic or secular regimes (think Nazis, Soviets, Maoists) killed more people in the last century than religious regimes. I'm not religious myself, but an examination of history shows you that we are the real problem, not the things we choose to believe in.


As for the Pope thing, 1. Muslims are way too sensitive and should not respond violently to any criticism of the their faith. Some of them are quite obviously insecure about their religion.
2. Given the current climate, the Pope should know better and not say anything that might add fuel to the fire of Islamic-West relations.

Edwardius

DaveMcG wrote:

He's apologised.
http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-09-16T115828Z_01_L14330092_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-RELIGION-POPE-ISLAM-COL.XML

Damnit. Ratzinger's a pussy!

Edit: Oh, he said he was sorry they found parts of the speech offensive. That's different.

Cianos

Religion isnt the cause of all wars. Wars happen because those in power want more power. Religion is a way of disguising that to get the people on your side. If it wasnt religion, it'd be something else.

Sam Vimes

projectmayhem wrote:

i think muslims need to get a grip. yeah, there's racism out there. but if a bunch of irish dudes flew some planes into buildings and i went to the attacked country, i'd expect funny looks too.

well, some irish people did a bit of blowing up if you remember? and we did get some funny looks

DaveMcG wrote:

He's apologised.
http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-09-16T115828Z_01_L14330092_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-RELIGION-POPE-ISLAM-COL.XML

god damn it. there goes papal infallibility

the article wrote:

Two churches -- neither of them Catholic -- were fire-bombed in the West Bank, although no one was hurt.

i'm sorry but i think that's just funny. they don't even know who they're pissed off at

smemon wrote:

God is ultimately the cause of all major wars

and if you're a particular braveheart actor, they were all cause by one hebrew religion

Cianos

DaveMcG wrote:

He's apologised.
http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-09-16T115828Z_01_L14330092_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-RELIGION-POPE-ISLAM-COL.XML

Fair play

Sam Vimes

Cianos wrote:

Fair play

but he didn't actually say anything wrong. what he sadi was taken out of context. how is that "fair play"? at some point we have to stop giving into these extremist retards. they shouldn't get their way simply because they can throw the biggest tantrum






disclaimer: i am not saying muslims are retards, i'm saying extremist muslims are retards, just like the ira. please don't take what i said out of context and make me apologise

jaggeh

http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/NewsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-09-16T115828Z_01_L14330092_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-RELIGION-POPE-ISLAM-COL.XML

but if he could be wrong about that.......he could be wrong about anything.....there goes my total lack of faith in the church.

Chucky the tree

Snake Plisken wrote:

Fair play to the Pope, he said nothing wrong, I'm getting a bit F^cking fed up with this Muslim lot, they are all a shower of nutters, and before you all politically correct heads come out with oh they are not all bad, thats bullsh&t, from the Danish cartoons to trying to plant liquid bombs on planes all in the name of Mohammad I'm fed with them all.

Snake

spot on.


Sure you'd never gt catholics blowing anything or anyone up now would ya?


:rolleyes:

scop

Of course not. SHOCK HORROR leader of one faith mocks other! Muslims need to stop moaning, its getting old.

Personally, I think the most insulting thing which has come out of all this is the burning of the effigy of the pope.

Ruu_Old

scop wrote:

Of course not. SHOCK HORROR leader of one faith mocks other! Muslims need to stop moaning, its getting old.

Agreed, its soooo last old. Give it up already.

fly_agaric

Renta-mobs of "Holy" muslims are "outraged" over "insults" to their religion by the EvilWestTM. And in other news the sun rose this morning and will set sometime later this evening! :rolleyes:

What a load of crap.

Killaqueen!!!

He shouldnt have apologised. As someone said earlier, we have to stop giving in to extremist idiots at one stage. People get offended so ****ing easily these days and it seems to involve the Muslim commmunity a lot. It pisses me off. Then again, if the Pope didn't apologise theyd probably blow us all up. There's a controversial statement :rolleyes:

fly_agaric

Myth wrote:

Personally, I think the most insulting thing which has come out of all this is the burning of the effigy of the pope.

But its only somewhat insulting to Catholics - so phew there! Everyone knows insulting them is great fun for all the family and none will lose an eye (or their head or something) over it.

scop

They'll probably blow something up anyway. The burning effigy of the Pope is a huge insult but you wont find Catholics storming the Pakistan embassy showing how non-violent we all are.

toomevara

Bunch of chippy fcukers, the sad thing is that someone may have to die because a muslim's 'sensibilities' have been 'offended'...hatstand...they really need to grow up and get with the programme.....

smemon

punky wrote:

Religion is not the cause of war.

it is. Religion gives people an identity. Identity seperates people. Seperation is where conflict occurs.

put it this way. i'm a utd supporter. my son will most likely be a utd supporter & his son and so on.

instanstly, we are hated and loathed by arsenal/liverpool fans, even though we are decent people. proving that identity causes instant hatred and who and what you belong will always be held against you.

If i met a muslim man on the street i'd spot him a mile off with a big mummy hat on and a towel around himself. Nowadays most people would say to themselves 'terrorist', and would be VERY cautious arond such people.

Whereas if the same guy walked down the street in casual jeans and a shirt with short black hair, nobody would pass any remarks.

Don't try and tell me religion is not the cause of war there are different clubs in religion, just like football. When you choose one, you're instantly hated by the others.

if we had no religion, no god, no churches.... the world would be a better, more peaceful place. I'm assuming of course God exists, as there is no proof he does exist yet people still fight over him :rolleyes:

Sam Vimes

smemon wrote:

if we had no religion, no god, no churches.... the world would be a better, more peaceful place. I'm assuming of course God exists, as there is no proof he does exist yet people still fight over him :rolleyes:

as john lennon says:


Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

smemon

Commander Vimes wrote:

as john lennon says:


Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

YOUUUUoooh........ you may sayyyyyyy, i'm a dreamer..
but i'm not the only one,
i hope some day you wil join us,
and the wooooorrrrld will live as one.....

good old john lennon he shares the same thoughts as myself on religion.

Darragh29

Myth wrote:

Personally, I think the most insulting thing which has come out of all this is the burning of the effigy of the pope.

I couldn't agree with you more. I was very tolerant of Muslims and Islamic people until recently but I'm honestly starting to get a bit sick of the way any negative talk about their prophet and the whole world seems to be up in arms about it and people start running amok and smashing up cities. Sick to my face of it tbh, they demand respect for their prophet and rightly so as do Christians, but I have to say that when I look at nations like Saudi Arabia and Iran, in the case of Saudi Arabia they are still chopping people's heads off with swords in a town square in Riyadh in 2006, women have no rights whatsoever (can't drive, vote, drink, can't walk down a street with a male relative), whatever religion that is behind this, and from my best observations, it is religion that is behind it, is inhumane and evil.