Usage of term gay

Griffinx

Hi all,

I'm 40 something and I'm a bit confused about how the term gay is currently being used.

It used to mean happy & carefree
Then it meant homosexual
Now it seems to mean something different like bad, useless etc

Teenagers seem to be using the term gay now to refer to someone or something they dislike or think as inferior or worthless but without any homosexual connotation.

Have I got this right and if so should we drop the word gay now for homosexual people because of its negative association?

Gr

JC 2K3

They still call people who can't speak "dumb". It's not that much of a problem unless you're very easily offended...

claire h

I am hoping that it's just an idiotic teenage thing - most people, once they grow older get a bit of cop-on, stop using phrases like that. I don't think kids tend to use the phrase 'that's so gay' once they're aware of actual gay people around them.

Or maybe that's just foolish optimism...

Sangre

It really is Claire H, the word gay is a term for something crap or useless is so ingrained in my speech I never notice using it. It would like trying to force someone to not say damn when they're annoyed.
I think the term gay has gone way beyond its original meaning and now its beyond the reference to homosexuals. I wouldn't bat an eyelid if I said in front of a homosexual as I just don't associate the word with sexuality anymore in colloquail terms.

That being said I did play CS a lot.

abetarrush

Yeah, im the same. If somethins crap [like music or a film] I'd say its gay

and easily offended gays take it too much as an offense

Like, i was on a plane last year comin home with my year, and a gay guy from our year was sittin at the window, then my mate, then me on the aisle seat.

My mate said "Awe, we have school tmoro" and i said "i know, its well gay"

and yer man jus hopped up n went mad. he was like Why u slaggin my peeps???

UU

Geesh, that's the thing that bugs me about language is how terms keep changing. If you want to say that something is "gay" is your terms, why don't you just say crap, lame, ****, poksy, etc. which mean the same thing without the mischance of offending somebody. Gay people don't use gay in such a negative way, we use it in a positive way to express something we like, as a term of endearment. Why bother using "gay" in a condescending fashion when it can offend somebody?

Or maybe I should start using "hetro" or "straight" in a negative manner and see how people like that! :mad:

I should start with "Oh I'm so annoyed I can't get a job! That is soooo hetero!" :rolleyes:

arbeitsscheuer

Sangre wrote:

It really is Claire H, the word gay is a term for something crap or useless is so ingrained in my speech I never notice using it.

Yeah, likewise. Actually, the other week I thoughtlessly said something (can't remember what - a film, or a band maybe) was "gay", in a conversation with a friend of mine who is homosexual. Almost as soon as I said it I kinda panicked, and he kinda put on a mock-angry face and then took the piss outta me for about 15 mins for saying it. But tbh I don't think he'd hav said anything, or even noticed, if I'd just carried on instead of being afraid of offending him.

I dunno. I used to hate ppl who used "gay" as a term of negativity, but when u hang around wit em for so long it becomes entrenched in your personal vernacular.

LegacyUser

UU wrote:

Geesh, that's the thing that bugs me about language is how terms keep changing. If you want to say that something is "gay" is your terms, why don't you just say crap, lame, ****, poksy, etc. which mean the same thing without the mischance of offending somebody. Gay people don't use gay in such a negative way, we use it in a positive way to express something we like, as a term of endearment. Why bother using "gay" in a condescending fashion when it can offend somebody?

Or maybe I should start using "hetro" or "straight" in a negative manner and see how people like that! :mad:

I should start with "Oh I'm so annoyed I can't get a job! That is soooo hetero!" :rolleyes:

Well in fairness (and correct me if I'm wrong), that is totally different.

After all, if you are using the word 'gay' to refer to homosexuality, that is just another slang that has been developed over the years...because the correct term for a homosexual IS 'homosexual'. It would be different if somebody said 'thats so homo/homosexual' while refering to something in a negative way.

I sometimes say 'ugh thats so gay' because to me, it is just another way of saying 'that sucks', 'thats crap' etc. (I also say those ). It comes out automatically. I don't stop to think for a couple of minutes "ok what will I say in response to that. will i say 'thats gay' or 'thats crap' or what? oh wait, if i say 'thats gay' it might offend some people"....I just dont do that!

To be honest, I think people are waaay too sensitive if they get offended by this.

Then again, I think homosexuality is disgusting. This is the first - and last - post I will make in here. But I just saw the topic and thought I'd put my input.

abetarrush

UU wrote:

Geesh, that's the thing that bugs me about language is how terms keep changing. If you want to say that something is "gay" is your terms, why don't you just say crap, lame, ****, poksy, etc. which mean the same thing without the mischance of offending somebody. Gay people don't use gay in such a negative way, we use it in a positive way to express something we like, as a term of endearment. Why bother using "gay" in a condescending fashion when it can offend somebody?

Or maybe I should start using "hetro" or "straight" in a negative manner and see how people like that! :mad:

I should start with "Oh I'm so annoyed I can't get a job! That is soooo hetero!" :rolleyes:

dont hate the player, hate the game!

Syth

My friends and I say it a lot. Perhaps cause we're just finished computer science and spent way too much time in the computer lab and browsing the internet. Though we'd frequently say "That's gay. In the bad way.", kinda satirise people who use 'gay' to mean crap.

claire h

Syth wrote:

Though we'd frequently say "That's gay. In the bad way.", kinda satirise people who use 'gay' to mean crap.

See, at least there's awareness there!

My response to someone saying [whatever] is "so gay" tends to be along the lines of "oh my god, really? [whatever] is sexually attracted to other [whatever]s?"

Because, honestly, if you're using a word whose most prominent usage does mean homosexual, and think it doesn't say anything when you use that same word to mean 'crap', particularly when we're talking about a group of society who still don't have equal rights, ffs... there's a serious lack of awareness and thought going on there.

UU

Killaqueen wrote:

Then again, I think homosexuality is disgusting. This is the first - and last - post I will make in here. But I just saw the topic and thought I'd put my input.

Oh I see clearly now. Yes it makes sense why you say "Oh that's gay!" because you're just a big stinking fücking homophobe! :mad: I think you're disgusting coming onto a gay forum and saying something like that. It is totally unacceptable. If you see a topic like this, don't bother wasting your time inputting because we don't want people like you here, we don't want you here. If homosexuality is disgusting as you say, what's homophobia?! :rolleyes: Make sure this is your only post because you obviously are not brave enough to even use your user name but go anonymous you chicken. What you said is soooo straight!!!

JC 2K3

UU wrote:

Geesh, that's the thing that bugs me about language is how terms keep changing. If you want to say that something is "gay" is your terms, why don't you just say crap, lame, ****, poksy, etc. which mean the same thing without the mischance of offending somebody. Gay people don't use gay in such a negative way, we use it in a positive way to express something we like, as a term of endearment. Why bother using "gay" in a condescending fashion when it can offend somebody?

Or maybe I should start using "hetro" or "straight" in a negative manner and see how people like that! :mad:

I should start with "Oh I'm so annoyed I can't get a job! That is soooo hetero!" :rolleyes:

So it's ok to use "lame" in a condescending fashion?

HYPOCRITE!

Seriously though, I don't mean to attack you, just using you as an example. Almost every derogotory word stems from discrimination of some sort, usually mental retardation. Dumb, lame, retard, spa, bastard etc. If you'd say any of those and would be offended by somone saying something was gay then you're hypocritical.

Goodshape

Being dumb, lame, retarded, spasticated or a bastard are all fairly unfortunate things.

Being gay isn't, it's just different. It would be more similar too someone saying "that's so Muslim!" or how about "don't be such a Jew!".

Every now and again you might get away with saying something like that for a laugh (people should try not to be too sensitive), but most people don't go around relating every unfortunate event to judaism because they've generally got a bit more respect. Same should apply to homosexuality and the term 'gay'.

Regardless of what it used to mean (and I don't think it ever had a negative connotation before it was associated with homosexuality), what it means now is fairly common knowledge. 'We' can't exactly give up the word.

Rev Hellfire

Goodshape wrote:

Being dumb, lame, retarded, spasticated or a bastard are all fairly unfortunate things.
Being gay isn't, it's just different.

Perhaps you'd care to expand on that point. Are you in someway suggesting its not ok to say gay, but that its less of an issue when its one of these 'unfortunate things'.

Regardless of what it used to mean (and I don't think it ever had a negative connotation before it was associated with homosexuality), what it means now is fairly common knowledge.

The term gay was always an insult before it association with homosexuals became common. If anything the word is now returning to its original usage. Are people that insecure that they need to now go looking for insults where none where intended or offered.

claire h

Rev Hellfire wrote:

The term gay was always an insult before it association with homosexuals became common. If anything the word is now returning to its original usage. Are people that insecure that they need to now go looking for insults where none where intended or offered.

Ah, yes, all that talk of having "a gay old time" and whatnot... how insulting it was to say such things. :rolleyes:

As for other derogatory words - yeah, one should also be careful with those, though 'dumb', 'lame' and 'bastard' are are actually that stage where you wouldn't get anyone using them in the context of 'unable to speak', 'unable to walk', 'illegitimate child', whereas 'retarded' and 'spasticated', while very much the un-PC terms, still *are* used in their original contexts. Same with 'gay' - it's not even un-PC, it's the term people use all the time for homosexuality, so the argument that using 'gay' as an insult has nothing to do with gay people is ridiculous.

Crucifix

claire h wrote:

Ah, yes, all that talk of having "a gay old time" and whatnot... how insulting it was to say such things. :rolleyes:

He's not wrong. Despite it's original meaning, Gay came to mean bad or immoral before it came to mean homosexual. "A gay house" was a euphemism for a brothel, and later "a gay" was a young male prostitute (and not (nessicerly) a homosexual one).

Rev Hellfire

Actually you're wrong on the use of the word. While the word gay was associated with happy as in a gay old time. The also meant licentious which is where it got associated with homosexuals, which where(are?) perceived as lacking in sexual restraint.

On your other point as to the association of the word lame and dumb you show your double standard. I'm curious as to why someone with a disability in those areas wouldn't find them somewhat insulting. And as for bástard well that certainly would be an issue for a certain cross-section of the community.

claire h

Rev Hellfire wrote:

Actually you're wrong on the use of the word. While the word gay was associated with happy as in a gay old time. The also meant licentious which is where it got associated with homosexuals, which where(are?) perceived as lacking in sexual restraint.

On your other point as to the association of the word lame and dumb you show your double standard. I'm curious as to why someone with a disability in those areas wouldn't find them somewhat insulting. And as for bástard well that certainly would be an issue for a certain cross-section of the community.

A double standard is when you have two situations that are the same and you treat them differently. There is a big difference between words that have actually come to mean something different from their origin and words that haven't.

And 'gay' as 'immoral' is not quite the same as 'gay' as 'crap for whatever reason'.

Rev Hellfire

claire h wrote:

A double standard is when you have two situations that are the same and you treat them differently. There is a big difference between words that have actually come to mean something different from their origin and words that haven't.

And 'gay' as 'immoral' is not quite the same as 'gay' as 'crap for whatever reason'.

The double standard here is the idea that when someone says lame, dumb or bastárd is ok since they didn’t mean it, but when someone says gay in a context which is totally unrelated to sexual activity/ordination and intent some how its not ok.
This is only an issue from what I can see because certain people want to make it one. Possibly since they feel they need to constantly bring reference back to themselves and their own ordination. "I'm the only gay in the village".
But then maybe its simply a case that those who find issue with it are out of touch with the words more common usage today.

Goodshape

Rev Hellfire wrote:

Perhaps you'd care to expand on that point. Are you in someway suggesting its not ok to say gay, but that its less of an issue when its one of these 'unfortunate things'.

Yea, that's what I'm saying.

JC 2K3

How is it a disadvantage to not have married parents? You accept "bastard" but not "gay"??

Am I wrong in thinking that "gay" was probably used as an insult towards homosexuals at first, before homosexuals adopted it themselves. This is obvious in the case of words such as "queer" etc.

It's just the way the English language has evolved tbh. I really don't think the use of gay in a negative context has anything to do with homosexual discrimination.

Sangre

This thread is gay.

Goodshape

JC 2K3 wrote:

How is it a disadvantage to not have married parents? You accept "bastard" but not "gay"??

Well, I was going with a list of words that someone else used. Being a bastard isn't that unfortunate these days, but it's often less fortunate than being born into a happy, stable and loving family.

Probably in line with modern acceptance of unmarried parents, calling someone a bastard these days isn't that much of an insult either (depending on how you say it I suppose, but that's the same with anything).

JC 2K3 wrote:

Am I wrong in thinking that "gay" was probably used as an insult towards homosexuals at first, before homosexuals adopted it themselves.

You could be right (it's was once connected with anysort of 'immoral' sexual behaviour), but like you said :

JC 2K3 wrote:

It's just the way the English language has evolved tbh.

It would surprise me very much if people using the term in this day and age actually think it means anything other than homosexual.

I'm perfectly able to laugh at myself (most of the time anyway) and don't have a problem with the 'negative' fun-poking usage of the word every now and then, but don't pretend you don't know what it means. Just like I might tell a short-changed friend not to be "such a Jew", I'd only do so because I know my friend isn't going to take offence. I'd have a bit more cop on and respect than to say such a thing among people who might not get the intended humour.

Sangre

So the word has evolved into meaning homosexuals and is going to stay that way forever now?

Goodshape

Forever is a long time. We could all be speaking chinese by then

JC 2K3

I use the term around my gay friends without noticing. I don't think they do either.....

abetarrush

the original meanin of gay was Happy

then it became gay as in homo

now its also gay as in crap



Why do ye care really?

Its all about context peoples!!!!

UU

Well, in relation to the context of using the word ‘gay’, I found this extract from this month’s GCN. Kevin, a fella in 'Belong To' wrote it (cool fella actually! ). It might make the subject a bit clearer.

In claiming our territory, we are also reclaiming our language. Specifically, the word ‘gay’. Gay does not mean ‘bad’, ‘shït’, ‘crap’, as it is commonly used today. In today’s context, gay means gay – as in homosexual. As in actually HOMOSEXUAL. Just like today straight means straight – as in heterosexual – and black means black – as it a type of race of people. People often argue that it is just a word, and words don’t mean anything. Well, what does saying, “You’re so gay” – in the most condescending tone possible – say to the little gay kid who hears it at school? It says gay is not okay and it’s certainly not cool. It says being gay is something to be derided and made fun of. It certainly doesn’t say that being gay is something to be proud of.

I do understand that language changes in the context in which it’s used. Gay people often joke around saying “That’s so gay”, but the difference is we use it as a term of endearment. Or we say it to stress how fantabulously queer something is – luminous pink shoes, for example . Some straight people I’ve explained this to don’t understand – they can’t see how ‘gay’ could ever be something positive. Other, more idealistic people might say that ‘gay’ is “just a word”, the fact that it’s not. Used as a term of insult, it’s homophobia – pure and simple.

Any LGBT person content with their friends bandying the word ‘gay’ around negatively needs to seriously examine their self-respect. It is like someone from a racial minority being happy to hang around with a racist. In airing his prejudices, the racist may be utterly ignorant, but the object of his prejudices who just sits there and takes it is just thick.

Perhaps some people have been so oppressed that they feel they don’t have the right to demand respect. But I feel differently. While it may be a commonly held belief that it’s okay to say homophobic things all the time, I don’t and won’t accept it.

Anyone who tries to say they “didn’t mean it like that” should be directed to statistics of how many young gay people commit suicide because they are ‘gay’, or how many people are beaten up and left for dead because they are ‘gay’.

They will no doubt make excuses to keep saying ‘gay’ in a derogatory fashion, because prejudice is an ugly mindset that doesn’t let up easily. For these people I suggest, at the merest inclination of something uncool or stupid happening, announcing loudly and obnoxiously, “Oh my God! That is so hetero!” If the penny still doesn’t drop, they are a lost cause. Abandon ship and tell them they are too straight to function properly in society. And go ahead with your life content in knowledge that ‘gay’ means happy.

......and he's right with what he said. Maybe people should look past the word and see the effects it has on LGBT youths. I know from experience at school, the negative use of the word 'gay' certainly made me feel more uncomfortable coming out and even accepting my sexual orientation. I wish people would realise how something so simple is so harmful.

Rev Hellfire

Cut and paste jobs like that are totally gay.

Like it or lump it, at this stage the use of gay as in above example has entered the common vernacular. Personally I use it all the time, it's a word I love. And one I don’t see myself or my peers using any the less in the future.

If people want to get offended by things said when it’s plainly obvious that they weren’t the target, then the problem is really with them and us.

claire h

Great article.

UU

claire h wrote:

Great article.

Well, at least someone appreciates it. Thank you Claire.

Cut and paste jobs like that are totally gay.

Like it or lump it, at this stage the use of gay as in above example has entered the common vernacular. Personally I use it all the time, it's a word I love. And one I don’t see myself or my peers using any the less in the future.

If people want to get offended by things said when it’s plainly obvious that they weren’t the target, then the problem is really with them and us.

No the problem is with you. :mad: If you want to make homosexuality seem like something 'bad' or 'crap', as in the context you use the word, then we can thank you that so many LGBT youths find coming out to be so difficult and have a low sense of self-worth. It doesn't matter if you weren't targeting them whilst using the word. It is used as a put-down and thus puts down LGBTs, especially in schools.

Rev Hellfire

But the simple fact is that it has been stated on numerous times by those who use the term that it is disconnected from any association with homosexuals and/or their practices.
Now if some people (a minority) wish to refuse to accept that and fabricate controversy for their own agenda, then I see no reason why I or others should be concerned and change our behavior to suit them.

But then this is the crux of the issue, a refusal by some to allow the word to evolve from its current association and to accept its new increasingly disconnected use.

UU

Well maybe you ought to ask yourself why "gay" has come to be used as "lame" or "stupid" these days? As an insulting term?

Rev Hellfire

Ohh I totally accept your point that gay as used in the common insult comes from its association with homosexuality.
But I believe the word and its usage as become disconnected from that association now that it has entered mainstream usage. In the same way you have disconnected the use of lame from the grouping it insults.

Hmm_Messiah

I do understand that language changes in the context in which it’s used. Gay people often joke around saying “That’s so gay”, but the difference is we use it as a term of endearment. Or we say it to stress how fantabulously queer something is – luminous pink shoes, for example . Some straight people I’ve explained this to don’t understand – they can’t see how ‘gay’ could ever be something positive. Other, more idealistic people might say that ‘gay’ is “just a word”, the fact that it’s not. Used as a term of insult, it’s homophobia – pure and simple.

AS one person's opinion this is fine. As a statement of fact its crap. The argument that a minority may use a word it "owns" jokingly but others may not is elitist, and sectarian.

It may be true that as an insult it is homophobic but in any usage I've heard its far from homophobic, if anything its "homo-neutral' - I use the term like once I would of used lame, so do gay friends, family - none of us are homophobic.

Linking it to suicide is a bit overstated- or understated: what is needed here is enducation/dialogue/information so a young gay person realises and is assured that being gay is ok.

Personally as a "gay" person I've found the term quite amusing on occasion(all in the manner objected to here ), either using it as a double entendre with gay mates, or using it regarding my ex, or the occasions its used by those straight folk, followed by a supposedly awkward moment , followed by laughter.

A group of straight and gay people laughing doesnt seem very homophobic to me, instead it suggests integration and acceptance.

Just my opinion.

UU

I was in school last year, I used to sit beside a girl who used to say "Oh, that is so gay!" all the time. She said it so much it drove me around the twist! Of course, she wasn't referring to homosexuality at all but stating that something is crap or pathetic. Then, I used to annoy her by saying "Oh that is so hetero!" after I came out! Hehe!

Well I refuse to use 'gay' to describe something pathetic or crap because the initial meaning meant 'happy' and being gay can be happy and something to be proud of, not something crap and derogatory. If you want to say something is bad, then why not just say "Oh that is so crap!"?

Perhaps we're all getting a tad bit too serious here. Here's a video about a charming young man who seems to think everything is gay, would you believe! :eek: :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XSVHYtVIiA

.

Larry David

I use the word "gay" all the time. Everything crap is "gay", or if something crap happens, I say "gayness" - nothing to do with homosexuality - I got it from South Park. Simple as.

abetarrush

Its stupid though, tis only a word

if ye get so worked up about this ye have a serious problem

If we wanna say something is really good, we say its deadly, but its not deadly as in its gonna kill us

same with RAPPEH, SAVAGE, and WHOPPER

So stop the moanin! Its annoyin, and its gay!

Vinnie69

UU wrote:

Perhaps we're all getting a tad bit too serious here. Here's a video about a charming young man who seems to think everything is gay, would you believe! :eek: :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XSVHYtVIiA

.

UU "you cannot be serious" * This guy is now famous and has his own tv show and would you believe he is in his thirties ?

* quote from John O'Connor tennis player

-

UU

Of course I'm not being serious! Pff! :rolleyes: Oh dear, I didn't know he was in his thirties though......

Twinkle-star15

My brothers describe things as 'gay' the whole time, and while I don't find it entirely acceptable, I'm not going to go mad on them either- I know they only say it because they hear friends, and people on tv say it, and that they had no problem whatsoever with homosexuality. If they were older, or meant it offensively to the lgbt community, then I would have a (bigger) problem with it and would sit on them until they promised never to say it again .

RD/ID

Last year I lived with a guy who constantly used the word gay for things he didn't like. Gay for him, by his usage of the word made it synonyms with anything bad or negative. That is blatant homophobia.

The guy was very racially aware, his mother was a black American who taught him to be, in his own words; 'pro black'. His language annoyed me so much I started doing the same. Thats so niggard, don't be such a f*ckin black ...etc. After some irate protests he got the point and stopped.

Talliesin

We should never have stopped using "naff" to mean heterosexual.

qwertplaywert

RD/ID wrote:

Last year I lived with a guy who constantly used the word gay for things he didn't like. Gay for him, by his usage of the word made it synonyms with anything bad or negative. That is blatant homophobia.

The guy was very racially aware, his mother was a black American who taught him to be, in his own words; 'pro black'. His language annoyed me so much I started doing the same. Thats so niggard, don't be such a f*ckin black ...etc. After some irate protests he got the point and stopped.

omg best option EVERY time
if you cant beat 'em,pretend to join them and Stab them in the back.
wait a min...........

abetarrush

RD/ID wrote:

That is blatant homophobia

Whats so blatant about it?

Its figure of speech. Sayin somethin's gay as in bad has nothin to do with the homosexual meanin

Funny how you couldnt just ask him to knock it off instead of bein a spiteful little b*tch.......

Annasopra

abetarrush wrote:

Whats so blatant about it?

Its figure of speech. Sayin somethin's gay as in bad has nothin to do with the homosexual meanin

Funny how you couldnt just ask him to knock it off instead of bein a spiteful little b*tch.......

oh the irony................

RD/ID

abetarrush wrote:

Whats so blatant about it?

Its figure of speech. Sayin somethin's gay as in bad has nothin to do with the homosexual meanin

Funny how you couldnt just ask him to knock it off instead of bein a spiteful little b*tch.......

It is blatant because he doesn't try to hide it.

Obviously I did ask and yes you stupid fu*king retard (meant figuratively so supposedly you don't have a right to complain) it is related to the homosexual meaning as it is hardly a coincidence that he uses the words homo, fag, ...etc. in a negative context as well. So while your mother is a whore (meant figuratively) I completely disagree with you.

Stark

Okay, this has gone far enough if it's just going to descend into an insult match. I think everything that can be said has been said at this point anyway.