KK - part II - postflop

fuzzbox

See other thread for preflop action:

I called

Pot (66)
Kh Jc 3c

Im first to act - your move?

cardshark202

check-raise all in

Samba

Oh noe, he's not going anywhere with AKc is he?! ugh what a wretched hand!

Hmmm, check raise at the risk of not getting an opportunity to raise, if we bet were only getting action from 5 hands AA, AK, JJ, KJ and 33.

However QQ might bet if checked to him.

Somthing doesn't feel right check raising here, i opt to lead out for 45 and look for someone to raise us.

spectre

I bet 50. You are often up against {AK AA JJ}.

AA and AK will call but will often check behind on this flop

You don't want to let another club fall for free either.

rogue trader

On reflection, i can see clearly now the conundrum faced (after your explanation).

I get KK and immediately get a semi... Then thank god that i'm not wearing tracksuit bottoms. Not good for your poker when your blood rushes from your brain elsewhere...!

Quality post, Fuzzbox

Ste05

This is a nightmare hand, nice one for discussion though.

Ye I don't really like the C/R here either.

I think I'd normally just lead out for 40 - 45.

Alternatively I might sometimes try something a little different and risky, and just check call, and prey for a non Club turn when I'll lead for about half pot hoping the other guy will push.

Although having said that if it goes Check, Bet, Call, I'll probably re-raise (possibly even the dreaded min-raise, just to re-open the betting) but it would depend solely on the size of raise,

If it goes Check, Check, Bet, I'll call, hoping the re-raiser goes over the top.

It it goes Check, Bet, Fold, I'll probably just call also.

Very interesting hand Fuzz...

EDIT: Just to be clear, as I said above I'll normally lead, but at times I'll mix it up slightly...

Sangre

I'd probably lead for 35/40. I would think that checkraising (especially all in) is a pretty quick way to end the hand for everyone except AA/AK

ocallagh

the stacks are quite small compared to the pot so I probably check call the flop. Ideally the re-raiser will make it 50 and the 3rd player will push! If they have anything you'll end up all in quite easily, probably by the turn.

If the stacks are a bit bigger, say 400 or 500 i think i lead for 50.

cardshark202

I still think a CRAI is best given the stack sizes.

fuzzbox

cardshark202 wrote:

I still think a CRAI is best given the stack sizes.

why?

cardshark202

I guess it depends on your image, but say you had AQcc there(not that you should), how would you play it? You will still get paid off by AA, AK, JJ (or 33!) but you might gain an extra bet if the re-raiser has not got any of the above hands.

Bandana boy

Lead for 40 expect to get reraised by AA AK JJ and 2 clubs

Samba

My problem with the check raise is that we give AK a chance to get away from the hand and we don't give him the opportunity to raise.


lets say he bets out 40, he has committed $62 bucks of his stack and it would be another 138 to call an AI bet, i think we give them a chance to get away from their hand, check raising advertises too much strength imo. And villain/s have only 1/3 of their stack in the middle, if they feel you are very strong they may give up and reload. If i'm Check raised all in with AK in that position i won't feel comfortable calling unless of course i have the club draw to go with it.

If we lead out we can get AK to raise us.

pok3rplaya

Check and let the reraiser bet. If Mats calls then we raise AI.
if he folds then we call and get it in on the turn.

spectre

pok3rplaya wrote:

Check and let the reraiser bet. If Mats calls then we raise AI.
if he folds then we call and get it in on the turn.

You can not be sure that the reraiser will bet this flop. Even with AA or AK he may check.

If we CRAI we give AK a chance to get away and run the risk of giving free clubs.

Also, we are likely to get action from one player only. If the flop is checked, we will have to pot the turn and river to get all-in.

Bandana boy

Ste05 wrote:

This is a nightmare hand.

It is difficult hand to play to maximise your value not sure i would wake up sweating over flopping top set in a raised pot though

although turn and river might change that

luckyvegas7

fuzzbox wrote:

See other thread for preflop action:

I called

Pot (66)
Kh Jc 3c

Im first to act - your move?

stick it all in on the flop, they wont put you on a set. Id like to know do you have Kc...

Did villain one have aa or jj? mats hit a flush?...like to see the results plz. nice post.

Ste05

Bandana boy wrote:

not sure i would wake up sweating over flopping top set in a raised pot though

You don't??!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

I often wake myself up screaming: "PAIR THE BOARD!!!"

..... I suppose some of us are just more committed to our art than others ... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

fuzzbox

Results:
Thanks for the input

I led for 44, reraiser thought for a time and folded, mats shoved, and we got it all in.

He flipped AcKc


The rest, as they say, is history.