mtt stratgey question, purposefully losing chips.

ditpoker

i was playing a mtt on ppp earlier andthe following situation occurred. blinds 400/800. i have about 14k which is near enough the average if a bit above. i'm the small blind and UTG (9k) who is so very very tight limps. there are 4 callers before me, who are as loose as you'd expect in a $5 MTT. my thinking is the 4 callers have a wide range and one or two might commit alot of chips with a limited hand. My hand in SB is muck, 73off, but i really think UTG wants to limp reraise. as is standard on ppp top 27 are getting paid and theres about 45 players left. anyway, i decide to re-open the pot so UTG can make his move so i min raise to 1600 hoping that UTG and one or more others clash. This move cost me 1200 and had no guarentee if it'd work. my goal for the hand was to get one or more players eliminated. did i need to do this? did i have enough chips to do this? should one EVER do this??

BB called the 800 min raise, UTG made it 4800. mp pushed for 7500 with A6off (???). everyone else folds, UTG calls with QQ and QQ holds out. This time around what i had hoped would happen did, but does that make it a good play? or just bad play cos i'm giving away chips. .... sure isnt there a fine line between genius and madness!

Sangre

Bit far off the bubble for it.

ditpoker

Sangre wrote:

Bit far off the bubble for it.

ah, so the play is sound in principle... i just have horrific timing?

30something

I think its a good idea but the wrong play. If u think UTG wants a raise to reraise, with as many callers as there is he's likely to go AI and scare everyone off. Waste of chips IMO

RoundTower

The action bluff

luckylucky

Yeah i think it's defo a good idea at right time and a very good question too, something I haven't heard discussed before, not that I remember offhand anyway.

Ste05

I don't mind this idea in principle but, in this particular scenario I don't like it, simply because you're giving UTG a great opportunity to increase his stack by more than double.

Now the reason I don't like it, is because the chips will be going to the wrong side of you. i.e. Alot of chips at the table will more than likely be moving to your left, instead of to your right (where you want them). What it means, is that, in future rounds when it's your button you'll have to attempt to steal blinds from a Big Stack (well at least bigger stack than yours) whereas as the hand that is currently developing, has a better chance that the chips will end up behind you - Which is much more desirable.

ditpoker

RoundTower wrote:

The action bluff

interesting read... the situation described early in that is roughly what im getting at....

shoutman

Interesting theory alright jeff, I think it is definitely a thin line between genius and insanity situation. I agree with Ste alright though about giving chips to your left.

luckyvegas7

but this method is not guaranteed any action, no matter what kind of players are at the table and there position.. So how many times here is utg or MP going to push here?...at this stage of a tourn it happens frequently, and your just dumping valuable chips just to see maybe a 1:4 race.. you are also only half way ITM here, and at best your knocking out what one player? its not much of an advantage to u...in another scenario say they all limp/call and u hit u could find urself in some serious kicker trouble ....

If i was ever to consider using this technique it would only be on the bubble or a nice top heavy FT...

Hectorjelly

Full marks for effort and creativity, I think its an bad move however. You dont even have 20 blinds and you are purposefully giving 1.5 of them up for basically no gain. Your equity isnt going to increase very much if a player gets knocked out, plus your raise increases the chances of the pot being taken down preflop.

If you had enough chips to coast into the final 27 it would be bad, in your spot is really bad. (IMO of course)

cardshark202

Hectorjelly wrote:

Full marks for effort and creativity, I think its an bad move however. You dont even have 20 blinds and you are purposefully giving 1.5 of them up for basically no gain. Your equity isnt going to increase very much if a player gets knocked out, plus your raise increases the chances of the pot being taken down preflop.

If you had enough chips to coast into the final 27 it would be bad, in your spot is really bad. (IMO of course)

I never thought I'd see the day when HJ had to include 'IMO' in his posts. Tis a sad day.

Ste05

Hectorjelly wrote:

.... I think ....... (IMO of course)

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Tis a sad sad day indeed.... What has happened to the world??

jimbling

The theory of this is pretty interesting... and there is a few situations where it will be the right thing to do.

But your situation is nowhere near the credentials needed. Firstly, theres 43 players left.... a lot of time to go, you may need those chips yet.

Secondly, and more importantly it's a $5 MTT. You already mentioned
the players were "as loose as you'd expect in a $5 MTT". They do not need any help from you to throw there chips in the middle.

LuckyLloyd

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