Patience for Learner Drivers

hamsterboy

Was just wondering if anyone else knows of anything like this happening.

My girlfriend is learning to drive for the first time, a major achievement as she had a very serious car accident when she was younger. I gave her some lessons and now she's getting pro lessons twice a week, and is so happy with her progress as she never thought she'd drive a car. It's really boosted her confidience.

Last night though, she was in the instructors car driving around Renmore housing estate in Galway when some knacks in a Glanza burberry-mobile started following her around the estate, revving their engine an blowing their horn to put her off! That phazed her pretty badly but to make it worse, when heading back to Oranmore, she was trying to turn right after the traffic lights that lead onto the Coast Road when she stalled the car. She hadn't even managed to re-start the car when some arse behind her started blowing and waving his arms about. She had managed to get the car moving again and made the turn when the guy behind her (red estate with Polish plates) pulled up alongside her and drove on the wrong side of the road, blowing his horn and screaming obscene sh*t at her. Even her instructor was flipping this guy the bird andcalling him a wa&*ker!

The car is kitted out with HUGE learner driver plates and appeals to be patient! Are these people retarded?

She came back from the lesson crying and worried that all the progress that she has made has been wiped away by some Polish fecker who has no patience, consideration and prob no insurance or tax either. She says she'd know the car if she saw it agan, it was headed for Oranmore. I'm a peaceful guy but if I spotted the car and was sure he was in it, I'd be hard pressed not to introduce a tyre iron to all his windows and prob his face.

Everyone has to learn somewhere and some people are naturally nervous and others have had bad experiences in cars an are therefore constantly worried and nervous while driving.

GOD I'M SO PI$$ED OFF AT THAT GUY!

dudara

I would always have loads of patience for people out in those cars with the huge L-signs etc. They might be fustratingly slow etc, but they're learning.

I hope that this doesn't put your gf off too much from driving.

mike65

Those who drive left-hookers should be particularly polite.

Mike.

kluivert

I dont why people have this attitude towards learner drivers.

It was the same when I was learning to drive. I remember I bought my first car in Laytown Louth and had to bring it back to Monaghan, went into Drogheda no bother, then I came to the traffic lights on a little hill. I was the first at the lights. Well can you guess how many times i stalled it....9 times.

People behind where beeping there horns etc and this nice old man right behind got out of his car tapped on the window when the lights where red and asked me was I ok.

I told him I had just bought the car, its was my first one and I had only been driving about two months, ie (14 lessons in total).

He said dont worry about them behind you,you just take your time and relax and go when you feel capable. He said press the accelator and let the clutch out slowly and the car will move, I knew all this but the fact is, I got nervous with the people beeping etc.

So I done that and on the 10th attempt I was away, revving the car, it shot off like a bolt of lighting, but that old man stayed beside me till I got moving giving me words of encourage and trying to relax me and calm me down. I ll always remember that.

I always give learner drivers loads of move and time. we where all in the same at some stage, its pure ignorance when people act like a prick. Sounds like your gf as come along way, she should be proud of herself and dont let this her down.

Sadly its apart of everyday Irish driving.

I went to England for two weeks where driving standards where ok but not great but there wasnt the same about of road rage as you experience here.

Get back on the horse is my advice....

marcphisto

The dude is a wanker and to be ignored.

All you can do really is to try to keep her confidence up.

My GF also learnt to drive recently. She had her setbacks but has persevered and for a learner is a pretty competent driver at this stage, even though she is still on her first provisional.

Get her to practice, practice, practice. It's the only way.

She's probably still at the stage where the mechanics of driving is still an issue for her. The more practice she gets, the more automatic these will become.

On an aside, almost everytime I drive my own car after driving my GF's car I stall it (different clutch biting point) and I've been driving for 18 years!

(christ I'm old)

bombidol

I had my first lesson last night, driving around finglas and glasnevin. Stalled the car 2 or 3 times but nothing too serious. Its nerve racking to say the least when you are just getting started and its nice to see people who have time for learners.

Stark

kluivert wrote:

He said dont worry about them behind you,you just take your time and relax and go when you feel capable. He said press the accelator and let the clutch out slowly and the car will move, I knew all this but the fact is, I got nervous with the people beeping etc.

People are idiots. You'd think they'd have some cop on that the more they beep, the more nervous the learner driver will be and the longer they'll have to wait.

Evil Phil

Everyone has been a learner at some point, I had a similar experience stalling the car on a hill at lights, took about 4 light changes to get going again And yes a lot of the cars behind me started beeping but I didn't let it phase me, I had L plates for a reason after all.

Stark

I remember one time I stalled about 15 times, and eventually had to let my dad into the driving seat

smash

just try and get your gf to calm down about it. The instructor should have taken note of plates and reported them.

hamsterboy

The instructor was embarressed afterwards, she would have got the plates but she was too buzy screaming at the ignorant fecker

Hobbes

Actually this is pretty much the norm, especially if your in an instructor car. Having an L plate for most driver means they can blow the fuk out of thier horn if you fail to respond within 0.5 seconds and dangerously cut you off while calling you a wanker out thier window.

I recall my driving lessons many moons ago and the instructor had said that what you described goes on daily with them, even when he is driving the car.

BeansMeansHynes

I am a learner driver myself and people are so rude. I get people driving up my ass trying to scare me, even though I am doing the speed limit. I have found that taxi drivers are the worst and are so impatient. One time I had just stopped at a roundabout as a car was coming from the right, taxi driver behind me went nuts and started beeping and screaming at me. I could not go as there was a car coming from the right. I kept my cool and went when it was safe to do so. What is wrong with people?? We all have to start off somewhere and its nerve racking enough without the likes of taxi drivers, boy racers ect making it worse.

Hotwheels

yep it’s unfortunate, I see loads of G0bsh1ts like that; I give L-Drivers plenty of leeway but you always get some ejit who’ll roar by blasting their horn, or weaving back and forth behind the L-Driver flashing their lights.
IMO these people need to be assessed, as I wonder how they got a license in the first place….
Hopefully it won’t put your girlfriend off driving

cpoh1

guys this is not in any way directed at your girlfriend (fair play to her for getting out there and biting the bullit and learning) or anyone in particular but do you ye really think someone who stalls their car should be driving out on a public road? Once in a bluemoon fine but if someone is learning and out driving on public roads and stalling their car at every traffic lights shouldnt they be perfecting their technique first?

My attitude is that it doesnt matter who's driving a car, male/female, young/old, learner/fully licenced, they are in possesion of a loaded weapon on the road and should all be treated alike. I personally dont treat learner drivers any differenently than any other car, if they are good enough to be on public roads then they need to be able to drive at a standard good enough for public roads. I havent forgotten what it was like to learn to drive a car either its just that only learners who are at an advanced stage should be driving on busy public roads, stalling a car is a sure sign that youre not ready for that.

JackKelly

lol, I'm soon to start driving and sounds like it's going to be a laugh. I'll have to stick to the quiet residential roads.

Stark

cpoh1 wrote:

guys this is not in any way directed at your girlfriend (fair play to her for getting out there and biting the bullit and learning) or anyone in particular but do you ye really think someone who stalls their car should be driving out on a public road? Once in a bluemoon fine but if someone is learning and out driving on public roads and stalling their car at every traffic lights shouldnt they be perfecting their technique first?

That's why we have dual control instructor cars for people to learn in.

His girlfriend is to be commended for going through the whole process the right way by starting with instructor-led lessons, not subjected to a poorly disguised "****ing learner, shouldn't be allowed on the road" rant.

Learning the technique for starting a car is relatively simple. It's learning how to stay relaxed and do it correctly in a real traffic situation that's hard. You can only prepare so much for that.

cpoh1 wrote:

I havent forgotten what it was like to learn to drive a car either its just that only learners who are at an advanced stage should be driving on busy public roads, stalling a car is a sure sign that youre not ready for that.

And you've never once stalled a car on a public road? Never? Never ever? If you say yes, then I'll assume your telling porkies. Even experienced drivers stall a car from time to time.

hamsterboy

Hi cpoh1
This was the only stall she had in weeks
He could obviously see that it was a person under instruction.

Also, the instructor themselves wouldn't have taken her on the public roads unless they thought she was capable.

cpoh1

Stark wrote:

That's why we have dual control instructor cars for people to learn in.

His girlfriend is to be commended for going through the whole process the right way by starting with instructor-led lessons, not subjected to a poorly disguised "****ing learner, shouldn't be allowed on the road" rant.

Learning the technique for starting a car is relatively simple. It's learning how to stay relaxed and do it correctly in a real traffic situation that's hard. You can only prepare so much for that.



And you've never once stalled a car on a public road? Never? Never ever? If you say yes, then I'll assume your telling porkies. Even experienced drivers stall a car from time to time.

Yup as I said in my original post, my point was not directly related to the gentlemans girlfriend and she is to be commended for getting out there and learning (like I mentioned). All this doesnt take from the fact that practice makes perfect and someone needs to perfect their starts before hitting busy public roads (and I disagree 100% with your comment that learning how to stay relaxed is the problem, in my opinion if someone practices enough (off the major public roads) so that theyre comfortable with the clutch and takeoff then traffic stalling will never be an issue). Learner drivers have every right to be on the road, however its their own responsibility to be up to a suitable standard where other road users have to suffer and are a danger not just to themselves but to others.

And yes I do stall my car at least once a month, ive got a triple plate exedy clutch and 4kg flywheel in my car, you try hill starting that

@hamsterboy as I said this point has nothing to do with your girlfriends situation.

Saruman

Stark wrote:

And you've never once stalled a car on a public road? Never? Never ever? If you say yes, then I'll assume your telling porkies. Even experienced drivers stall a car from time to time.

Exactly... everyone stalls.. unless they drive automatic.. you could be in gear waiting for the lights to change as they will any second then oops not enough gas and you have to start her up again. Or you could have wet feet and your foot slips off the clutch... innocent.. anyone driving for a living will even do it some times.

Anyway back on topic... i have patience for learners... though i will overtake when its safe to do so and will not cause them to panic... i treat them like a horse

commited

I have all the time in the day for learners who are being properly instructed in suitable cars.

Women in their late teens/early 20s who are driving solo and dont have a clue what they're doing deserve no tolerance, only caution.

Wishbone Ash

commited wrote:

Women in their late teens/early 20s who are driving solo and dont have a clue what they're doing deserve no tolerance, only caution.

What about men in their late teens early 20s doing the same? Are they OK? :rolleyes:

commited

I generally find its only women who seem to have the problem of not having a clue what they are doing. I'm not being sexist at all - my girlfriend has said it to me several times also.
But I agree, I have no tolerance for any drivers driving solo when they should not be doing so.
I went to Cork and back today - all the worst driving was done by women with L-plates up. One had 3 unbelted kids in the back and she was driving about a metre from the car in front. Nice.

opus

Stark wrote:

I remember one time I stalled about 15 times, and eventually had to let my dad into the driving seat

Think we've all been down that road, the first time I drove a motorbike (after ~15 mins of lessons from a friend) I stalled it at traffic lights & could not get it going again. Eventually to my great embarrassment, I had to push it over to the side where after many many goes finally got the engine running again. Luckily I was wearing a helmet so nobody could see my blushes!

Personally I'd never start beeping the horn to someone with an L plate unless they're about to reverse into me or something.

Stark

committed wrote:

One had 3 unbelted kids in the back and she was driving about a metre from the car in front. Nice.

Ooh, that could have made a cool Darwin award.

"The award goes to xxx who not only removed herself from the genepool but was kind enough to clean up her previous contaminations".

Hotblack Desiato

opus wrote:

Think we've all been down that road, the first time I drove a motorbike (after ~15 mins of lessons from a friend)

So after 15 mins you thought you were good to go out on the road?
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Gerry

I sympathise completely with the original poster. But the learner driver issue in Ireland is a really strange one. A lot of people are getting few or no lessons, and hopping in the car with a provisional license, on their own. Because there are so many people doing this, public opinion is with them. Some of them make a decent job of driving, a lot of them don't. Why should someone who has made little to no effort to learn properly, be excempt from critcism?

Stark

Gerry wrote:

Why should someone who has made little to no effort to learn properly, be excempt from critcism?

The topic is about people in instructor cars.

smemon

been driving about 2 months and am out on the roads everyday. Have never stalled at the lights/roundabouts/pressure situations in my own car and just use the clutch and accelerator at hills now. (i find it easier to take off than handbraking).

it is all about confidence and you can only build confidence by getting out on the roads and going through lights time after time without stalling, going up hills without stalling....

it's very different in quiet estates doing a hillstart and being on a busy road with a traffic jam behind you on a friday afternoon. It's all about how well you can handle pressure too.

Stall once in a while and you can put it down as a fluke, stall twice and perhaps you can't handle the pressure... stall 3 times and you really shouldn't be on the road.

you get idiots who will speed up behind you, cut you off, basically do nothing but put pressure on you to speed up.

I have to say though, instructor's do slow things WAY down. i mean on my own i'd be slightly over the speed limit usually (by 5km/hr) but when with an instructor on the same stretch of road i could be 10/15km/hr under!

totally unecessary and i do nothing but slow up everyone behind me :rolleyes: i hate that.

jd

smemon wrote:

I have to say though, instructor's do slow things WAY down. i mean on my own i'd be slightly over the speed limit usually (by 5km/hr) but when with an instructor on the same stretch of road i could be 10/15km/hr under!

.

I'm surprised by that, the instructors I had would encourage you to drive at the speed limit ,if safe to do so, so you are making reasonable progress.
jd

smemon

jd wrote:

I'm surprised by that, the instructors I had would encourage you to drive at the speed limit ,if safe to do so, so you are making reasonable progress.
jd

no, i'd always be slightly under. What really does my nut in is when turning. I literally slow down to the point where i nearly have to put the car in 1st gear before turning. Completely unecessary and that again slows traffic up behind me.

if i were on my own i'd probably be in 3rd gear, with the traffic behind me flowing smoothly.

what i'm trying to say is that doing things the correct way isn't the best way imo. if everyone drove like a learner driver during a test, the roads would be much slower and more congested at junctions.

I salute drivers who fly on at stop signs or turn off in 3rd/4th gear when nothing is coming as it stops me and everyone else slowing down and clutching and keeps things ticking for everyone. It's common sense and keeps things flowing.

dubstub

smemon wrote:

I salute drivers who fly on at stop signs or turn off in 3rd/4th gear when nothing is coming as it stops me and everyone else slowing down and clutching and keeps things ticking for everyone. It's common sense and keeps things flowing.

Did I miss the sarcasm tags here or are you being serious? The point of Stop signs is that you can't know what is coming until you arrive at the junction, therefore you need to come to a complete stop before continuing through. Now with practice, that complete stop is only for a moment but at least it means that if something is coming you don't need to worry about braking distance from the momentum of the car.
As for turning off in 3/4 gear, fair enough if you can fully see all the way up both oncoming lanes but if you're in 4th you're probably travelling too fast to take a corner.

Stark

dubstub wrote:

The point of Stop signs is that you can't know what is coming until you arrive at the junction, therefore you need to come to a complete stop before continuing through.

There are plenty of Stop signs in locations where there is absolutely no need for them and a yield sign would do. They were in the process of changing them years ago, but I think they gave up on it.

dubstub

Stark wrote:

There are plenty of Stop signs in locations where there is absolutely no need for them and a yield sign would do. They were in the process of changing them years ago, but I think they gave up on it.

Ok, fair enough; I do remember hearing about that. I was just responding to a driver that's only been on the roads two months saluting people who fly on through stop signs. I agree that there are some stop signs which could safely be yield signs; if you know the area and know that there is nothing impairing your visibility of the oncoming traffic then I agree that it is not necessary to come to a complete stop at certain stop signs.

smemon

dubstub wrote:

The point of Stop signs is that you can't know what is coming until you arrive at the junction, therefore you need to come to a complete stop before continuing through.

exactly, i'm saying i can see what's coming without stopping

now, obviosuly i'll slow down a bit to acknowledge that the stop sign is there but there's no need to and you could safely carry on past the stop sign without stopping at all.

opus

ninja900 wrote:

So after 15 mins you thought you were good to go out on the road?
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Well I had a car licence for years but a friend of mine was leaving the country for two years & offered me his bike. Thought about it and said why not. Must admit I was a bit nervous on the ~12 mile ride home but took it handy and have never looked back since.

Hotblack Desiato

opus wrote:

Well I had a car licence for years but a friend of mine was leaving the country for two years & offered me his bike. Thought about it and said why not. Must admit I was a bit nervous on the ~12 mile ride home but took it handy and have never looked back since.

OMFG :eek:
You do realise that experience in a car counts for nothing on a bike...
I have years of experience in cars and bikes but I wouldn't think of driving a truck without instruction! Even though the controls are basically the same as a car. Not only does a bike have totally different controls, sooner or later it will BITE you big time if you don't know what you're doing. Top quality bike instruction is available now countrywide, this wasn't the case ten years ago, so there's no excuse.

Hotblack Desiato

smemon wrote:

no, i'd always be slightly under.

Unless there's a reason (hazards) to be under the speed limit, you will fail your test for insufficient progress

What really does my nut in is when turning. I literally slow down to the point where i nearly have to put the car in 1st gear before turning. Completely unecessary and that again slows traffic up behind me.
if i were on my own i'd probably be in 3rd gear, with the traffic behind me flowing smoothly.

Why? Because your instructor insists? Maybe you should get one who has a clue.

what i'm trying to say is that doing things the correct way isn't the best way imo. if everyone drove like a learner driver during a test, the roads would be much slower and more congested at junctions.

Exactly. Drive like a "learner" on test and you WILL fail.

I salute drivers who fly on at stop signs or turn off in 3rd/4th gear when nothing is coming as it stops me and everyone else slowing down and clutching and keeps things ticking for everyone. It's common sense and keeps things flowing.

:eek:
Until one day you get brained by a motorcycle in your driver's door when you 'thought' there was nothing coming... I'm not joking it's not just the biker who's looking at potentially fatal injuries in this scenario.
FFS obey the road signs, stop, look and look again, you might save a life.

opus

ninja900 wrote:

OMFG :eek:
You do realise that experience in a car counts for nothing on a bike...
I have years of experience in cars and bikes but I wouldn't think of driving a truck without instruction! Even though the controls are basically the same as a car. Not only does a bike have totally different controls, sooner or later it will BITE you big time if you don't know what you're doing. Top quality bike instruction is available now countrywide, this wasn't the case ten years ago, so there's no excuse.

Thanks for the concern but that story was from quite a while ago. I've had my full bike licence for the last five years without any 'incidents' so far. Hopefully will continue that way.

What I was trying to say (badly perhaps) was that I was fully aware of the rules of the road at least at that stage.

zilog_jones

I've only had a couple of lessons so far - I've had some jerks cutting me up when overtaking me and the occasional tailgating w@nker, but no beeping or any obscenities... yet. Luckily I've only stalled at the side of the road, not at a crossing or roundabout or anything like that, though I haven't met too many hills so far

Also WRT the Polish driver - he may not have understood what the L plates and whatnot are for, which does raise the question about how an EU resident can use a driving license from anywhere else in the EU despite such varying customs between countries - but regardless he was still obviously lacking in patience/courtesy.

ninja900 wrote:

smemon wrote:

What really does my nut in is when turning. I literally slow down to the point where i nearly have to put the car in 1st gear before turning. Completely unecessary and that again slows traffic up behind me.

Why? Because your instructor insists? Maybe you should get one who has a clue.

Yeah, my instructor nearly always tells to turn in 3rd, only sometimes 2nd gear. Dunno what car you're getting lessons in, but in a Hyundai Atoz you barely move in 1st!

Unless there's a reason (hazards) to be under the speed limit, you will fail your test for insufficient progress

I often find myself going a bit over the limit on some roads, but I don't think I've gone over 40MPH yet (sorry to those on the dual carriageway towards Bunratty ).

MrPudding

kluivert wrote:

People behind where beeping there horns etc and this nice old man right behind got out of his car tapped on the window when the lights where red and asked me was I ok.

I told him I had just bought the car, its was my first one and I had only been driving about two months, ie (14 lessons in total).

He said dont worry about them behind you,you just take your time and relax and go when you feel capable. He said press the accelator and let the clutch out slowly and the car will move, I knew all this but the fact is, I got nervous with the people beeping etc.

So I done that and on the 10th attempt I was away, revving the car, it shot off like a bolt of lighting, but that old man stayed beside me till I got moving giving me words of encourage and trying to relax me and calm me down. I ll always remember that.

That was very nice of him. There aren't too many people like that around. The problem I have with this story is this: It should not have been a complete stranger giving you his support. That is the reason why you are supposed to have a qualified driver with you.

For me one of the most important things the accompanying driver does is support the learner and help them through the difficult bits.

Had you been accompanied perhaps you would not have stalled 10 times. Had you not stalled 10 time then perhaps the people behind you would not have lost it.

I am not supporting their behaviour but to be honest I would have more time for a learner that was accompanied then one that was not.

MrP

chrislad

I'm only driving about 6 weeks now, and I kinda know where you're coming from. It can be nerve wracking. The first few times I went out driving, my back was drenched from sweat. I'm doing okay now. Sure, I've stalled once since I came back, and that was pulling into a tight space in a multi story car park. Was crawling though and didn't think I was going slow enough for the clutch

tomster

I wanna say I'm felling really sorry for Your sister... Behaviour You've described is absolutely unacceptable and rude. I'm dissapointed seeing what some of the Polish guys do in Ireland. In my humble opinion they have to just wise up and get used to live in the western society. I hope that incident won't affect on you opinion about other Polish immigrants living in Your country. I'm one of them.

kikel

The problem is who's a learner and who isn't. In the case of the OP those guys were w**&*^s. I've taught many a person to drive. When i'm teaching someone i always have my hand out the window to signal to other drivers we'll be gone in 1 minute if you give us time. If they don't beep or flash lights, i always give them a thumbs up to say thank you. Works most times, because they know the passenger can always get out and abuse the person behind for being so impatient. It also give the impression that the passenger is instructing the driver with the L plates.

Drax

smemon wrote:

I salute drivers who fly on at stop signs or turn off in 3rd/4th gear when nothing is coming as it stops me and everyone else slowing down and clutching and keeps things ticking for everyone. It's common sense and keeps things flowing.

Are you for real? So you think you can decide where signs should go. Maybe you are right, maybe some signs are unsuitable. But the fact is, the signs are there and they should be obeyed. Until the stop sign is changed to a yield sign, then you should stop.

This has to be one of the most hair-brained comments I have read to date on boards. Imagine what the place would be like if everyone had your attitude.

I'd love to zip down the whole length of the N11 at 100km/h but unfortunately there are signs there that say 60 km/h. But sure it if I had your attitude, they'd only be a guide. :eek:

Irish Salfordia

Getting a bit off the original point here.

As a driving instructor, I agree that there is a 'mentality' around which seems to say "I am not going to stay behind a learner no matter what i have to do to get around or however dangerous it is" This whole attitude is stupid and dangerous but becoming increasingly poular.

smemon wrote:

what i'm trying to say is that doing things the correct way isn't the best way imo. if everyone drove like a learner driver during a test, the roads would be much slower and more congested at junctions.

I would TOTALLY disagree with this. The correct way of driving is the safest way and the legal way.

I salute drivers who fly on at stop signs or turn off in 3rd/4th gear when nothing is coming as it stops me and everyone else slowing down and clutching and keeps things ticking for everyone. It's common sense and keeps things flowing.

If you ever want or need to pass your diving test you need to read the 'Rules of the Road' and drive according to them. The rules of the road states that ' a stop sign is a regulatory sign. The sign demands that vehicles approaching the sign MUST STOP at the sign, or the stop line if one is provided, even if there is no traffic on the main road. You cannot obey that rule (law) and drive over a stop line.

Moral, if you do not obey the law when you drive in your test you WILL fail

smemon

Irish Salfordia wrote:

The correct way of driving is the safest way and the legal way.

Moral, if you do not obey the law when you drive in your test you WILL fail

obviously, by obeying all signs / laws you will pass you test. However id say 90% of people who've already passed their test would fail their test if they were tested by a secret camera or something in the car.

Reality is, nobody drives 'correctly at all times. i.e slowing down to second gear when turning, stopping completely at stop signs, using handbrake at lights... two hands on the wheel at all times...

it doesn't happen. I agree, most of the above makes the roads a safer place for all, but some of the above is not necessary when driving in the real world everyday.

i ws watching a very interesting programme a few years ago about how congestion on roads builds up and they studied hours of jams etc.. and how they all started and slowly started to build up.

Number 1 cause for the jams was caused by people unnecessarily braking / slowing down / or not keeping up with the flow of traffic. By implementing 'correct' driving procedures such as handbraking/neutral when stopped, slowing down unnecessarily to 2nd gear when turning etc... you are in fact causing traffic build up.

common sense again has a lot to do with it, i mean you'll know yourself, there's people who will indicate and stay in the middle of the road when turning right :rolleyes: it does my head in.

Also, some of the speed limits on main roads in/out of towns are ridiculous. 60/ 80km/hr on a high visiblity, wide road with no residential or commercial buildings about

you need rules and regulations in every walk of life in order to prevent a free-for-all, don't get me wrong. However some of the signs, limits etc.. just don't make sense.