Nemesis: What a poxy way to end TNG movie series

Slice

I've just finished watching Star Trek Nemesis (for the second time), I realise it's the first film to feature Romulans in it which I thought odd considering they go way back. Also, I was kinda dissapointed they should be bumped off the number one spot by the Remens. I mean; where did these guys come from all of a sudden?? Why didn't the Romulans get their own movie with Kirk and co given they were bigger in the original series?

Thinking about it some more I was left feeling that assuming Nemesis was the last TNG movie ever it was a shame the number one attraction wasn't Q. Does anyone else feel the same? I mean didn't the TNG TV series start and finish with Q? I'm talking more about sinister Q; the Q that introduces everyone to the Borg, not so much comedian Q who proposes the starship captains etc...

eamon234

I kinda liked Nemesis (although Tom Hardy was a bit over the top) I just think everyone's sick of TNG it was just done to death I think bringing Q back would have been a bad idea it's too random - I know he pretty much gave us the Borg but the problem with the whole Borg arc was that they were defeated too damn easily I would have liked to see them turn up again. It's a pity the franchise is in the state it's in given that it's the 40th anniversary and there isn't even a show being made now. Oh well...at least we have BSG!!

User45701

BSG good but i love trek give it a little time bsg wont run for 40 years even with the new spin off (not resistance)

Johnny Storm

Slice wrote:

...Remens. I mean; where did these guys come from all of a sudden?? .....

A bit nit picky I know (but I just cant help myself), the planet Remus is actually first mentioned in the TOS ep "Balance of Terror" where Romulans make their first appearance. (Even though when Spock says it he is looking at a screen where Romulus's co-planet is labelled "Romii" -whadayagonnado ? :rolleyes: )

egon spengler

I agree. Nemesis sucked in terms of plot, script and direction. So ill conceived. Data should not have been killed off. All the next gen films kind of sucked even First Contact. I think the introduction of the Borg Queen was a bad idea, it just familiarizes an alien race by drawing up analogies with insects, the borg of the next gen series were much more alien, integrated minds forming one computer consciousness which had no sense of self by being divisible to the collective, that was scary, putting in a borg queen just makes it familiar, less unknown. Generations didnt make any sense whatsoever, the nexus I mean wtf? It had some brilliant themes, just again a storyline ruined by a crap concept, an energy ribbon that somehow absorbs sentient beings and allows them to envisage their own dream realities, bleh, just sounds like lazy creative writing to me.

Johnny Storm

I thought First Contact was quite good (although it doesn't stand up to repeated viewing). Also, it was really Voyager that over-used (and pissed away IMHO) the Borg. That scene in First Contact where the queen's head and spine is lowered into her body is still cool. And she still managed to look kind of sexy. Hmmmmm....

Slice

My point was that not using Q in a TNG movie was a missed oppotunity - like; he was a bigger part of the series than the Borg ever were and potentially more interesting.

Still, if the rumours about the next movie are true then maybe he'll still make it onto the big screen - I thought I read somewhere that even though it's going back to basics there may be characters from more than one series in ST:VI

Johnny Storm

I think they did a very good job with Q in "All Good Things...", it was smart and unexpected.
Unless they can top that in some way I dont think there's a need to bring him out of retirement.

manti452

Well you could say that the Q story arc was tied up in TNG as it came "full circle" to see how much Picard et al had learned. The fact that he was popping up in voyager was just annoying me (barr the quinn episode).

The borg were a bit played out after voyager.. the whole species 8472 thing didn't really measure up to TNG's Locutus arc - There was real tension there. And despite the fact that Picard could have ended it all with Hugh.. The main star trek universe needed a new threat or at least a convincing one.. oooh bad man has big ship.. :eek:

I still have to say that overall I enjoyed DS9 more as an entire series..

The only reports on the new film are that Nimoy has supposedly been contacted to say he may be required for some story exposition. Think I read it on Empire and I've seen a supposed movie poster around.. not sure if it's real.

: damn post took to long to write LOL damn u johnny storm! :

Johnny Storm

manti452 wrote:

....
: damn post took to long to write LOL damn u johnny storm! :

I get that a lot!

durandal

I like the way no one even mentioned that God-awful fourth one. DS9 film ftw, although not involving the dominion. How could the federation come out of a Klingon war into that and still survive? It wasn't too long after Wolf 359 either, how fast can they build those ships?

manti452

@ durandal : ur name a marathon reference?

historically it would appear star fleet cannot build ships that fast at all. The Defiant was to to be the primary borg - repellent but was overpowered for it's size. Sisko corrected some design flaws and made it workable but you never see another one in ANY series or film (bar the one to replace the defiant in DS9). Likewise you never see another Intrepid class ship either. Given its resiliance you'd thing they'd build more.

Not counting wolf 359, there were a few big battles with the Dominion no.. so they'd have to be seriously undermanned.. hence bringing the Romulans in to join them and the Klingons... Anyway this is all a bit OT LOL

God only knows where they're going after Nemisis.. I'd have liked a bit more ENTERPRISE. It sucks ass how they brought back in that d*ck producer and he ruined the t'pol trip story line and killed him off.

mcgarnicle

manti452 wrote:

@ durandal : ur name a marathon reference?

historically it would appear star fleet cannot build ships that fast at all. The Defiant was to to be the primary borg - repellent but was overpowered for it's size. Sisko corrected some design flaws and made it workable but you never see another one in ANY series or film (bar the one to replace the defiant in DS9). Likewise you never see another Intrepid class ship either. Given its resiliance you'd thing they'd build more.

Not counting wolf 359, there were a few big battles with the Dominion no.. so they'd have to be seriously undermanned.. hence bringing the Romulans in to join them and the Klingons... Anyway this is all a bit OT LOL

God only knows where they're going after Nemisis.. I'd have liked a bit more ENTERPRISE. It sucks ass how they brought back in that d*ck producer and he ruined the t'pol trip story line and killed him off.

Wrong. There were loads more defiant class ships, plenty in DS9, including several in the episode where the dominion first attack the space station and one that had its own episode "Reliant" http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/DS9/episode/100685.html

There were 2 defiant class ships in the voyager episode, "Message in a Bottle" and two more in "Endgame"

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Unnamed_Defiant_class_starships

bizmark

manti452 wrote:

@ durandal : ur name a marathon reference?

historically it would appear star fleet cannot build ships that fast at all. The Defiant was to to be the primary borg - repellent but was overpowered for it's size. Sisko corrected some design flaws and made it workable but you never see another one in ANY series or film (bar the one to replace the defiant in DS9). Likewise you never see another Intrepid class ship either. Given its resiliance you'd thing they'd build more.

Not counting wolf 359, there were a few big battles with the Dominion no.. so they'd have to be seriously undermanned.. hence bringing the Romulans in to join them and the Klingons... Anyway this is all a bit OT LOL

God only knows where they're going after Nemisis.. I'd have liked a bit more ENTERPRISE. It sucks ass how they brought back in that d*ck producer and he ruined the t'pol trip story line and killed him off.

What? their where 2 defiant alone in the voyage episode message in the bottle the valiant was used as a bloody training ship for cadets you don’t give your supposlyed amazingly limited in supply uber warship to cadets the definet itself was replaced in 2 episodes there was also a different intrepid class in some episode of ds9 ferrying diplomats to Romulus in other words during a war the intrepid class was used as a admirals personally ship you don’t do that with limited in numbers warships

Lets be honest here theirs hundred if not thousands of excelsior class ships hundreds if not thousands of Miranda class ships 10s - 100's of galaxy class ships etc after wolf 359 that women that wanted rikers job said their would have that fleet back up in under a year that’s 40 ships and their crews in less than a year the view of utopia planitina in voyager showed maybe 20 ships being built in that yard alone and they where all mostly close to completion god only knows what space dock can kick out and the mirror universe episode showed that the defiant itself can be built by a bunch of rebels at a captured cardie station pretty quickly it wouldnt suppise me at all if ever single station and decent sized colony has the ablity to build ships for the federation..... Imho Feds have the ability to build hundreds of ships and keep them running for 100+ years their fleet numbers must be biblical imhol.

Also the dominion during the war said in a number of episodes that the other two powers don’t matter its the federation that’s the big power on the block with out them the romulans and klingons mean nothing hell even species 8472 said that about the borg.

manti452

I hate posts that just start "wrong".

I didn't deny the existance of other Defiant Class ships, but I think .. stress think here cos I'm at work and don't have time to research, three defiant class ships were named : the defiant, USS Valiant (NCC-74210) and the USS São Paulo (NCC-75633), Unnamed ships could in essence be the same one's, tho that's unlikely. Seeing them onscreen means nowt really.. unless you have a registry number?

With sisko gone and the war over, maybe DS9 is not such a key position, but more a gateway

I'm with Bizmark on the Red Sqaud issue tho on giving them a defiant class vessel to train in.

I am just thinking aloud tho if the Intrepid is an "admiral transport" why was it sent out on such a mission, it seems quite well armed and sturdy given all its been thru. It would make sense to mass produce these as they are smaller and more manouverable than the 1701-D or E

bizmark

manti452 wrote:

I hate posts that just start "wrong".

I didn't deny the existance of other Defiant Class ships, but I think .. stress think here cos I'm at work and don't have time to research, three defiant class ships were named : the defiant, USS Valiant (NCC-74210) and the USS São Paulo (NCC-75633), Unnamed ships could in essence be the same one's, tho that's unlikely. Seeing them onscreen means nowt really.. unless you have a registry number?

With sisko gone and the war over, maybe DS9 is not such a key position, but more a gateway

I'm with Bizmark on the Red Sqaud issue tho on giving them a defiant class vessel to train in.

I am just thinking aloud tho if the Intrepid is an "admiral transport" why was it sent out on such a mission, it seems quite well armed and sturdy given all its been thru. It would make sense to mass produce these as they are smaller and more manouverable than the 1701-D or E

Theres no way that the defiant's are the same seeming that the promie was off out the arse end of the federation at the time while the dominion war was still going on so defiant was a tad busy and the valent was in iddy biddy bits or still lost.

Also i didnt mean the intrepid class it self was an admirals transport i ment they where using one as an admiral/diplomatic ship i don’t think they would do that unless theirs a great number of them around otherwise why not just use and excelsior instead if the intrepid is low in numbers and a more potent combat ship?.

mcgarnicle

manti452 wrote:

I hate posts that just start "wrong".

I hate posts that are blatantly wrong.

manti452 wrote:

I didn't deny the existance of other Defiant Class ships

Wrong.

manti452 wrote:

Sisko corrected some design flaws and made it workable but you never see another one in ANY series or film (bar the one to replace the defiant in DS9)

Looks like pretty emphatic denial to me, I think it's the capitilisation of "any" that makes it though.

manti452

mcgarnicle whats your problem with me? I have no problem with articulate posts.. urs just smacks of an air of superiority.. you know what maybe your right. You're probably an uber fan with time on his hands who can look stuff up. I'm a fan, I've watched all the Star Trek, Star Gate, Farscape, et al sci fi series that have come and gone.. I haven't seen everything nor do I claim to. I did point out my lack of research ability at this point moment in time, so I called from memory.. excuse my apparant ignorance as I'm getting old at 27.

I will whole heartedly admit to the existance of other ships, as the Defiant is my favourite ship and the model sits proudly on my desk.

I'll know better than to wade into such discussions in future. thanks for your "constructive" and articulate help. I only wish I got this welcome from every new board I tried to participate in. Some of us just try.. we're not perfect

@ bismarck : my poor choice of language regarding the Intrepid class. Was merely referring to your earlier comment re Diplomatic / Admiralty use.. was not meant as a specific classification. I can only count from what I've seen. The nova class was a similar shape etc but only the Intrepid and Belarophon are listed.. so doesn't make me think there is a lot of these.. if we haven't even seen unspecific sightings.

Back to 24 I think.. enjoy:)

mcgarnicle

Relax I wasn't having a go at you. You made a post proclaiming how there was only 1 defiant, I made a post saying this wasn't the case. You then said you hated posts starting with the word wrong, which apart from the poor syntax of such a sentene, i don't see why you would have a problem with it. I then pointed out that I hate such emphatic posts that are clearly wrong, like your original one. I never said anything about you as I don't know anything about you. My extensive research involved remembering the valiant episode and googling it to check i had the name right. The rest was from memory.
You seem to have a problem with people disagreeing with you. I'm sorry you are upset but no need to throw your toys out of the pram, if you're wrong you're wrong, I have been many times here and on a star trek board there will always be someone geekier who knows a bit more about a particular topic/episode.

bizmark

manti452 wrote:

mcgarnicle whats your problem with me? I have no problem with articulate posts.. urs just smacks of an air of superiority.. you know what maybe your right. You're probably an uber fan with time on his hands who can look stuff up. I'm a fan, I've watched all the Star Trek, Star Gate, Farscape, et al sci fi series that have come and gone.. I haven't seen everything nor do I claim to. I did point out my lack of research ability at this point moment in time, so I called from memory.. excuse my apparant ignorance as I'm getting old at 27.

I will whole heartedly admit to the existance of other ships, as the Defiant is my favourite ship and the model sits proudly on my desk.

I'll know better than to wade into such discussions in future. thanks for your "constructive" and articulate help. I only wish I got this welcome from every new board I tried to participate in. Some of us just try.. we're not perfect


@ bismarck : my poor choice of language regarding the Intrepid class. Was merely referring to your earlier comment re Diplomatic / Admiralty use.. was not meant as a specific classification. I can only count from what I've seen. The nova class was a similar shape etc but only the Intrepid and Belarophon are listed.. so doesn't make me think there is a lot of these.. if we haven't even seen unspecific sightings.

Back to 24 I think.. enjoy:)

But you got to use logic on these things you cant just go purely by what you seen on tv or else the TNG federation has around 4 ships tos federation has 12 and ds9 federation has around 1 billion ...

Think about it we know the federation is 8,000 light years wide or something to that effect even at maximum speed it takes years to cross the federation for a fast ship like voyager never mind older slower ship's like the excelsior you just cant run or protect a nation of that size with very limited numbers you need thousands of ships scattered all over the place to protect it. The way that i see it is the federation fleet that beat the dominion is only around 20-50% of the total federation fleet size not the whole thing also i imagine the federation has a large number of huge ship yard's and space docks dotted around the place in stergitic places enabling them to build many many ships not all destined for the rommy/klingon/cardie boarder but in a pinch in a war that lasts years those ships and those fleets could be mobilized but the dominion was defeated before most of those ships could reach the fight...

Now think about individual ship designs......Defiant is a small warship there’s no point in them taking years to build as you would pretty much never replace loss's or have enough to make any difference during the war defiant must of been near top priority for nearly all shipyards through out the federation and must only take a few months to build imho ,
Galaxy class taking years NORMALY is fine they are big hulking monsters designed to do every thing however during the war the galaxy class was built using only like 10-20% of its hull filled out basically they where built with only the major systems and the tactical systems that explains why theirs a huge jump of them from tng to ds9 they where building quite a few every year instead of 4-5 fully kitted out ones every year it also proves the federation is pretty smart in their ship design imho,
The nova class is clearly a replacement for the old obert (sp) class i imagen it wouldnt take long to build a nova class at all few months like the defiant.
And as for the intrepid well its meant to be a replacement for the excelsior i would put a build time for one of those at 1 to 1.5 years no more and i imagine half the ship yards in the federation would be pumping them out after the war.

Course this is just all just my opinion the star trek writers keep things like building times ship production and fleet sizes vague for a reason.

Vokes

egon spengler wrote:

I agree. Nemesis sucked in terms of plot, script and direction. So ill conceived. Data should not have been killed off.

Besides the crappy plot, I thought it sucked because essentially they didn't kill off Data in the end.

I was so depressed coming out of that film, what a way to end the TNG crew

egon spengler

meh tng ended for me when the series ended. The films were like ancilliary notes. And since youve mentioned it there was an inordinate amount of time given over to datas character development in the films to the exclusion of everything else. Dont get me wrong data never annoyed me in those films and I think he was one of the best characters but I think there could have been more of a focus on the others. The TOS films were by in large a bit **** too. Wrath of Khan was ok. I think out of the lot The Undiscovered Country was the best. At least it conveyed really powerful themes in terms of a coherent plot. Maybe instead of going for high concept action with Nemesis they could have gone for something a little bit more reflective and political which could be carried on in subsequent movies. Just introducing an enemy randomly is a bit cynical and pointless.