Have you ever recieved a more ignorant email?

gidxg03

Recieved this email from a co-worker (he works in a different area to me.. same level/reporting structure as me). Just to state at the start I am a very polite and well liked person within the organisation. My job requires that I interact with lots of people on all levels of the organisation. Anyone I have spoken to about this could not beleive that someone would find my rude or ignorant as this person obviously does.

I sent an email to several employees asking them to close out on an issue. Got an email back from this individual saying can you give a 1-1 with an employee on this to avoid confusion. I closed this out and replied to all with a one liner saying I spoke to the individual this morning. Here's the reply...

One thing bothers me with your reply and that is the lack of addressee at the head of your mail. Call me old fashioned, definately old anyway but folks of my generation were brought up to be polite and show respect to everybody especially when it concerns letter writing etiquette. Consequently I find it deeply offensive and disrespectful to receive a mail which does not begin with my name as addressee. I personally take it to be very rude and consider that it could at worst be interpreted as an attempt to put me down and humiliate myself in front of the staff members copied in the mailing list.
I am taking this opportunity to air my thoughts with you as this is not by any means the first time you have openly displayed aggression towards me in an e-mail sent to myself and copied to multitudes of staff members. I am no longer prepared to tolerate such behaviour. This show of disrespect by a subordinate openly displayed to other members of staff is in my opinion a breech of the company BCG ( business conduct governance ) and as such, could be taken further. I do not propose to do so at this moment in time but wish to point out your shortcomings.

I trust this information will be of help and fully expect you to act upon it going forward.

Thanking you for your co-operation in this matter,

simba

I think that your reply

"I spoke to the individual this morning" was quite rude.
I would be raging if that was sent to me.
The person writing to you in the first place was only asking you to be more specific.
That one line response was very you sent was very abrupt. And obviously from your post below that is not how you meant to come across.
I can see where he's coming from though.
It sounds like a total misunderstanding and maybe you should speak to him one to one about it to clear the air.

gidxg03

Apologies. I should have been more specific on the reply of my email.

I sent out a mail to several employees asking them to close out on an issue.

One employee replied asking me to close out the issue by talking to the employee myself to avoid confusion, which I did. I replied to all saying:

I reviewed with (employee name) this morning.

Maybe it's a culture thing but this extremly common practice where I work (to send a one liner email in response to a another mail saying this was taken care of/closed out etc) hardly rude I think.

Froot

I find it somewhat ignorant to reply with one line in the case of mailing multiple individuals.

Likewise using only names is also ignorant: eg:

John,

blah blah blah.

steve

stepbar

Sounds like a bit of Party Politics to me, what a load of sh1te. It looks like the recipient has no cop at all, im sure he knows what you are like to deal with and not an asshole. Me thinks he doing a bit of "**** stirring". It all awaits me.....

homeOwner

I am taking this opportunity to air my thoughts with you as this is not by any means the first time you have openly displayed aggression towards me in an e-mail sent to myself and copied to multitudes of staff members. I am no longer prepared to tolerate such behaviour.

You have obviously had a run in with this person before. I cant imagine someone taking your reply as an insult unless there was a history to your dealings with them.


Was the reply sent to everyone or just to you?

seamus

Froot wrote:

I find it somewhat ignorant to reply with one line in the case of mailing multiple individuals.

Likewise using only names is also ignorant: eg:

John,

blah blah blah.

steve

I disagree. Email is more conversational than letter-writing. Any corporate or business ettiquete I've ever encountered doesn't require that you address an individual when replying to a question put to you. An initial mail like he sent would say "Dear All" or "Hi Guys" (depending on the context). If the mail is addressed to one person and cced to others, you can say "Dear John" or "Hi John", and explain why it's been cced if needs be.
A reply to that initial mail should say "John", or "Hi John" (except if replying to everyone who's been cced, in which case no address is needed).
The third reply then needs no addressing - everyone knows who the conversation is between, and there no disrespect in not addressing this mail.

Insisting on constantly addressing someone in what is quite blatantly an intra-company one-on-one conversation is just pedantesque

Stephen

gidxg03 wrote:

...interpreted as an attempt to put me down and humiliate myself in front of the staff members ...openly displayed aggression towards me in an e-mail sent to myself and copied to multitudes of staff members... show of disrespect by a subordinate openly displayed to other members of staff is ...

What a twat. He regards a one-liner email as "open aggression" because it doesn't have "Dear Mr Pedant" at the top of it?
Muppet.

Metacortex

Looks to me like a total overreaction on his part.
I know email between people esp. in a large company can often be like your reply, theres nothing rude about it.
You weren't writing a letter.

joe_chicken

Reply to everyone (with mail attached):

"Fùck off"

Maybe give him something to get angry at

There's nothing wrong with one line emails as long as everyone knows who's being addressed and what the context is (i.e. previous mails attached)


I wouldn't have taken offence to it.

jimi_t

gidxg03 wrote:

Recieved this email from a co-worker (he works in a different area to me.. same level/reporting structure as me).

If what you say is true here - that you're both on the same rung of the ladder - then you could really fight back via his comment

This show of disrespect by a subordinate openly displayed to other members of staff is in my opinion a breech of the company BCG ( business conduct governance ) and as such, could be taken further.

muletide

Stephen wrote:

What a twat. He regards a one-liner email as "open aggression" because it doesn't have "Dear Mr Pedant" at the top of it?
Muppet.

I would have to agree with Stevie here. He must have a past grudge against you either that or his wife squatted on the breakfast table and pissed in his cornflakes that morning

DonkeyStyle \o/

Have you ever recieved a more ignorant email?

Yeah plenty.
I've sent far worse ones aswell.

seamus

There's a phrase which is appropriate for just such situations.

It's lexical structure is such that the message is clear, and the level of your disapproval and wishfulness of the other person to **** off is obvious. However it also portrays no malice or specific spite in the direction of the person to whom it's said.


"Bite me"

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

The fun thing to do would be to reply with a cheeky answer.

Have a check to see if he might have bcc'd it to his direct boss, or group colleagues. If this is the case, then you will have to openly deal with the issue.

Otherwise, it might be best to email back and say that there must have been some misunderstanding, and ask him to meet for a coffee. It sounds like he has major self-esteem issues, to take even something as random as this as a personal affront. A good chat, and things should be sorted out.

nesf

Roundtower2 wrote:

Otherwise, it might be best to email back and say that there must have been some misunderstanding, and ask him to meet for a coffee. It sounds like he has major self-esteem issues, to take even something as random as this as a personal affront. A good chat, and things should be sorted out.

Yup, easiest way to defuse the situation and avoid all the crap that can come with letting something like this simmer. It can come back to bite you later on.

muletide

A good idea would to write an overly apologetic email really lay on the sorries. Explain how you upset this guy and write alot of detail about what he said. You then send this to everyone on your address book explaining how you have left the organisation down and how you feel so bad and have now seen the massive error of your ways.

Make sure you go overboard with the formalities and letter structure. And explain that now that you have seen things from his side all your future correspondance shall be constructed like this and that everyone else should consider doing the same.

Everyone at work will then know what a gobsh1te this plank is and he can do nothing about it and will have to accept the apology

As Tony Fenton would say "You're the winner!"

monkey tennis

IMO an intra-office email is not a formal letter. To call leaving out a naming header on a quick electronic note 'aggression' is ridiculous.

Regarding their 'name as addressee' comment, presumably their email address contains their name?

It mightn't be a bad idea to bring this to the attention of someone higher up (possibly using words like 'threatening' and 'paranoid', and definitely work 'outburst' in somewhere) - by the sounds of things, this idiot bears a grudge and looks like they're waiting for an opportunity to lodge a formal complaint against you. Showing them up to be the sad pedant they are may help you if there is any future complaint.

Raiser

Take 2 mins. to find examples of informal, concise emails which are absolute equivalents of your own contentious email - but which are being used appropriately and with 100% business justification. If they are from people higher up in the company that you report to and would be expected to take direction from then all the better.

Print them and then arrange a meeting with HR to discuss the knee-jerk tirade that you have been subjected to simply because you were in keeping with the modus operandi/communications culture in daily operation in your organisation.

You have made an enemy, albeit a dull-witted, Walter Mitty meets Perry Mason one, stop them before their next attack has a payload that could be cause for actual concern.

WhiteWashMan

id FYI it to my boss and to HR and ask them for some input.

bounty

ha, i would have replyed with another one liner:

"i've added who ever you are, to my spam list... lol"

with a lol at the end for bonus aggravation

Our man in Havana

That would push him over the edge.

bounty

yea, he could be a huge guy and come find me in the canteen :eek: its not like aggravating someone on a forum

Dave!

WhiteWashMan wrote:

id FYI it to my boss and to HR and ask them for some input.

Yeah I'd do the same!

Supercell

WhiteWashMan wrote:

id FYI it to my boss and to HR and ask them for some input.

Yep , definately is the way to go.

In work i somestimes get mails that really drive me nuts, usually walking to the coffee machine and back is enough to calm me down sufficiently enough not to get fired by my reply!

That email seems to be over the top completely and threatening also, time for HR, don't reply to this person just send it to HR.

The person that sent it is threatening you frankly and any reply you send will be misinterpreted tbh..HR it, time to move department or job.

I assume this is all because of a BCC ?

ircoha

I must be missing something but I find the OP's 2 posts v difficult to follow.

There are a number of inconsistencies, the main one being that "dickhead" seems to think that OP is his subordinate, which she slerly does not.

Also there is a difference between the one liner in both posts.

If this lack of clarity is replicated in the day job then it does not auger well for good communications.


The OP's comments about herself and her operating style are, at best, self-ingraciating.

Having said all that, the email cannot be left unanswered, so my reply would be a normal polit email asking him to explain what he means by all the BDSM sh*t and ask him to provide the prior evidence referred to, and tell him that on receipt of which you will meet with him to see how such an occurance can be avoided again.

I would not go near HR, bad move, they are lethal. It will go on your file, the one you dont have access to.

parsi

Seems like ye have history, don't reply, keep it in the back of your head, grow up, don't go near Personnel.

Our man in Havana

ircoha wrote:

I would not go near HR, bad move, they are lethal. It will go on your file, the one you dont have access to.

What file is this? All files held by an employer about you are accesible via the Data Protection Act 1988, no matter what they may say.

md99

That letter was hilarious...

What a complete TARD. I hope you sucker-punched him one.

Or as a less violent alternative, you could pick him up on his spelling errors.

[Jackass]

I'd send him a private mail, structured in what he perceives to be an appropriate manner, acknowledging his complaint, but standing your ground and outlining that these mails are addressed to everyone and has no personal aggressiveness implied or intended, and are merely continues mails for information updates and so you do not feel this requires absolute formality with each one as it is more of an informal update rather than a formal address. Apologies for any misunderstanding and offer to meet with him if there are any further issues he wishes to discuss. This way you have disarmed the hostility from your end and also maintained your right to keep sending these mails in the manner you do.

I'd also have a quiet word with management/HR to draw attention to the fact that there was a misunderstanding followed by a complaint and you have made efforts to resolve the situation. Say you informing them as they may wish to have input on this issue and you are willing to meet with them and the individual if necessary to clear it up.

He made a big deal out of it; you might as well use it to show how you can deal with this type situation in the office environment using initiative, leadership and compromise (as in willing to discuss if this is not satisfactory.)

Use it to your advantage.

Also, I would write emails in work as:

Mike, (Or: Hi everyone,)

Blah Blah Blah

Nick.

OR if it's to someone senior or someone I don't know personally or write to regularly it's:

Dear John,

Blah Blah Blah

Regards,
Nick

RainyDay

Bond-007 wrote:

What file is this? All files held by an employer about you are accesible via the Data Protection Act 1988, no matter what they may say.

Not completely true - see http://www.dataprivacy.ie/viewdoc.asp?m=m&fn=/documents/guidance/3gm1.htm

The general rule is that an employee has a right of access to personal data relating to him/her in connection with discipline, grievance and dismissal procedures, even if the disciplinary procedure is on-going or the subject of legal proceedings such as an unfair dismissals claim. There are however some limitations and exemptions to this right which are provided in Sections 4 & 5 of the Acts. These limitations and exemptions include:

(i) Opinions given in confidence
(ii) Professional legal privilege
(iii) Protecting the source of data
(iv) Investigation of an offence
(v) Other exemptions under Section 5

Section 5 also provides exemptions from access in other circumstances including:

* estimates of liability in respect of a compensation claim
* back-up data

Our man in Havana

Still you get pretty much everything.

Crea

Nick wrote:

I'd send him a private mail, structured in what he perceives to be an appropriate manner, acknowledging his complaint, but standing your ground and outlining that these mails are addressed to everyone and has no personal aggressiveness implied or intended, and are merely continues mails for information updates and so you do not feel this requires absolute formality with each one as it is more of an informal update rather than a formal address. Apologies for any misunderstanding and offer to meet with him if there are any further issues he wishes to discuss. This way you have disarmed the hostility from your end and also maintained your right to keep sending these mails in the manner you do.

I'd also have a quiet word with management/HR to draw attention to the fact that there was a misunderstanding followed by a complaint and you have made efforts to resolve the situation. Say you informing them as they may wish to have input on this issue and you are willing to meet with them and the individual if necessary to clear it up.

He made a big deal out of it; you might as well use it to show how you can deal with this type situation in the office environment using initiative, leadership and compromise (as in willing to discuss if this is not satisfactory.)

Use it to your advantage.

Also, I would write emails in work as:

Mike, (Or: Hi everyone,)

Blah Blah Blah

Nick.

OR if it's to someone senior or someone I don't know personally or write to regularly it's:

Dear John,

Blah Blah Blah

Regards,
Nick

I agree with Nick but include all who were copied on his mail. Lay on the apologies.
I know to my detriment not to include upper management or HR. They will be peed of with YOU for causing them hassle and not the other guy for sending a sh*tty mail. Keep the mail for future reference in case there is an issue.
Stay out of office politics - you will not win.

Stark

Generally I start an e-mail as if I had walked up to someone's desk to start talking to him, something like "Hi Mike" or "Hello Mike" or other such greeting. I avoid starting with name only, can come across a bit like "Hey, you!" I find, or with "Dear" as that often sounds too formal. (I only get formal letters if I'm in trouble for something or I owe tax ). I generally finish off with "Thanks," or "Regards," followed by my name. That way the e-mail is less likely to come across as tart.

However, whether or not you were coming across as being short in your e-mails, his reply was a complete over-reaction and quite threatening. He had no right to intimidate you in such a way. The whole "you must address me in the correct manner as you are of lower rank than moi" is pretty much out of place in a modern organisation as well, it would be a totally different matter if you were addressing a customer.

Even though I think you're in the right, I would probably go with Nick's suggestion. Even if his attitude is outdated, more than likely he adopts it because he can get away with it. You want to keep out of office politics as much as possible, while at the same time putting yourself forward as "the guy with the people skills". I'm not sure what HR are like in your organisation, in mine they're just a bureaucratic throwback and in fact were outsourced to some remote part of the world years ago. If they're anything like mine, ignore them and go to your first line manager instead but do make sure that there's someone watching over the situation for you.

gidxg03

Sorry for the delay in replying. There is a history between us alright but purely from his side. I have received other emails, albeit not quite as agressive as this one, from him before and made my manager (also his manager) aware of the emails. I have never engaged nor tried to inflame the bad feeling. I did the same this time and brought it to my managers attention saying that I did not want to make an official complaint but that the email was not on. My manager suggested the 3 of us sit down to clear the air which I agreed to. 6 weeks later, having asked 4 times what the story was with the meeting nothing has happenend. He did however tell me he had discussed the issue with the individual.

I did discuss the email (unofficially) with 2 HR representatives whom I work with very close with in my job and they wanted me to make an offical complaint. There is already a HR investaigation into another episode of harrassment this individual is involved in. I also know of several employees who have left specifically because of this individual.

As a result of this episode I feel unable to work with this individual (I would only have occasional dealings anyway). It has been very badly handled imo and a very bad atmosphere remains between us.

My standing on it is that I'm not going to make a complaint this time. However the email is saved and should another incident occur I shall make a complaint.

Just to add on the day the email was sent I had to discuss a few issues with the individual and about a work process he was partly responsible for (sorry but I dont want to give any specifics in this thread). To which he told me, in front of another employee, that I should look after the whole process myself and I did fúck all in the company anyway.

Our man in Havana

Hang the fcuker out to dry with HR so. It seems they are looking for ammo to get rid of him too.

TempestSabre

I dunno where you are all getting the idea that its about not using the persons name. I would have taken that they are annoyed because you used a group mail, which clearly (though perhaps unintentionally) puts the spotlight at the person for holding up the resolution/close out of the issue. For me such a overly formal email, especially sent as a group mail has a hidden agenda, to draw attention to a HR problem with this problem under the cover of resolving the issue. Theres a phrase, fix the problem not the blame. While you might think you were trying to achieve that by being overly formal, I think you've achieved the exact opposite.

Even before you confirmed it theres obvious a history between you and this person. If it were me I'd find out from HR/your manager exactly whats their expectations are of you on closing this or other issue, where this other person is involved. Then do that nothing more and keep a record of all comunication. Preferably do all communitcation via email so its recordable.

The other person sounds like a bully and has some personality problems. Best to steer clear and make sure you have as little to do with them as possible.