bonnar test positive for steroids

cmb.

it seems his A sample came back dirty - some sort of equine anabolic steroid in it

topdog8

id imagine the steriod ur talking bout is equpise aka EQ.. the thing is most proffesional fighters use aas to improve there game it goes with the scene

Morse

topdog8 wrote:

id imagine the steriod ur talking bout is equpise aka EQ.. the thing is most proffesional fighters use aas to improve there game it goes with the scene

EQ wouldn't be a drug of choice for a fighter. Maybe Winstrol or Finaplex (Trenabolone). Although the Fina is a cattle steroid.

Morse

Topdog, you were right. He tested positive for EQ (Equipoise).

What an idiot, using a drug with a detection time of five months.

It'll be interesting to hear his excuse's for that one!.

http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=news.detail&gid=3236

damo

I hope they ban him for life - hes a cocky asshole and a rubbish fighter (by ufc standard) and now a cheat...if i never see another bonnar fight ill be happy.

Morse

damo wrote:

I hope they ban him for life - hes a cocky asshole and a rubbish fighter (by ufc standard) and now a cheat...if i never see another bonnar fight ill be happy.

Don't kid yourself for a second that he's the only one using. I dare say most are using, some are just more 'clued in' on masking methods than others. Some just use the wrong compounds (if thats the right word to use for a banned substance).

George's_Key

really? do elaborate please.

Morse

George's_Key wrote:

really? do elaborate please.

The link?...

http://www.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=news.detail&gid=3236

damo

Morse wrote:

Don't kid yourself for a second that he's the only one using. I dare say most are using, some are just more 'clued in' on masking methods than others. Some just use the wrong compounds (if thats the right word to use for a banned substance).

I wasnt suggesting he's the only one using them, i was just saying hes a cocky asshole, rubbish fighter and a cheat!

Nothingcompares

Hey, I was just wondering if the majority of the top fighters are on banned drugs. Is there little or no testing in Pride? Sorry If I sound naive but I'm genuinely clueless and curious.

cmb.

they are not tested in pride - but those competing in las vegas next month will be subject to testing - one can expect those in a amin event,title fight and perhaps 2 others to be selected randomly

Dragan

Morse wrote:

EQ wouldn't be a drug of choice for a fighter. Maybe Winstrol or Finaplex (Trenabolone). Although the Fina is a cattle steroid.

Just out of interest would Winstrol not be a bad option due to the dry out and possible effect on joints etc????

Anyway, my thoughts on Bonnar get caught are just that, he got caught. I would doubt there are many guys fighting at the level that are NOT using something to be honest.

I also think reactions like "he's a cheat and an asshole" are a bit OTT. Sure, he was using a banned substance.....but not all men are created equal, to be honest.

Roper

Well he was in a desperate situation and possibly felt it was worth the risk of detection. If he lost to Griffin it was bye bye UFC.

Anyone who uses performance enhancers is a cheat. Full stop. It doesn't matter if "everyone is doing it", its against the rules and therefore it is cheating. Simple. If bothe fighters in a match are doing it then theres no "Oh well it cancels it out" clause in the rules... they are both cheats.

The amount of tolerance for cheats in sport is incredible. I say its time for lifetime bans.

Clive

I have to agree with Roper - (unless the B sample is clean) he's a cheat.

All men may be not created equal (Matt Hughes is very strong for his weight for example) but that doesn't mean other people should be allowed weigh in at 205 to fight him.

I thing all the commissions etc should adopt the WADA rules (or at least their banning procedures), 2 years ban for a first offence, a lifetime ban for a second.

damo

Roper wrote:

Anyone who uses performance enhancers is a cheat. Full stop. It doesn't matter if "everyone is doing it", its against the rules and therefore it is cheating. Simple. If bothe fighters in a match are doing it then theres no "Oh well it cancels it out" clause in the rules... they are both cheats.

The amount of tolerance for cheats in sport is incredible. I say its time for lifetime bans.

Agree with that - people really seem to think its ok to use steroids in mma but imo its as big a disgrace in mma as it is in any other sport. I hope they make an example out of Bonnar.

Nothingcompares

I hate to see people getting banned (;) ) but steroid abuse has got to be sorted out

Morse

Dragan wrote:

Just out of interest would Winstrol not be a bad option due to the dry out and possible effect on joints etc????

Yes Winny could be a bad choice due to its well known reputation for drying out the joints, however most would stack it with testosterone or Deca (Nandrolone) which promote water retention!. Deca is well known for its joint pain relief due to its effects of holding water particularly in the joints.

But Winny (Winstrol) is well known for its good strenght gains, which the user usually keep after discontinuence.

I don't know why athletes still use steroids which are so easy to both mask and easily detected once their not masked when GH and 'Slin while very expensive can't be tested for.

Dragan

I may be completely wrong but i don't think they even test for individual compounds, just the old test:epitest ratio's?

As such, a tested athlete without a naturally high testosterone production who has done the same cycle as Bonnar may pass, while Bonnar who may have a naturally high testosterone production would fail.

My issue is not that Bonnar did not cheat. Plain and simple he acted outside of the stated ruleset. He cheated and deserves to be punished.

My issue is that i hate seeing some people caught and punished under a system that due to it's own flaws will never be able to treat all athletes fairly.

It basically bothers me, that Bonnar will be caught and offered up to a steroid hating American public while Tim Sylvia will be embraced with open arms as Dana hangs the belt around his waist.

fatal

correct me if im wrong on this one but hasnt wanderlei silva been accused of using roids aswell?????Although i dont think that his samples ever tested positive I hav read that there have been question marks over some of the results.....
As for bonnar he used roids and still lost to griffin-imagine the ass whopping he would have taken if he wasnt using them

Dragan

fatal wrote:

correct me if im wrong on this one but hasnt wanderlei silva been accused of using roids aswell?????

Personally use of anabolics is legal in Japan. And if Pride do not test, and have nothing in there ruleset about the usage then nothing Wandy, or any other Pride FC Fighter for that matter, does is actually "cheating".

Do you want a fighter to be able to fight in brutal matches 4+ times a year? If your DSE then you do.

Roper

Now boxing is not MMA, but boxers having been fighting 6 fights a year under more duress than most MMA fighters for years without the use of steroids.

If you can't fight without steroids, fight less I say. This is pro sport the world over now but its creeping into amateur sports as well. There should be a zero tolerance policy on banned substances, after all, everyone wants the sport to grow right? How can you get kids into a sport if steroid use is the norm? What sensible parent would allow that?

Dragan

Roper wrote:

Now boxing is not MMA, but boxers having been fighting 6 fights a year under more duress than most MMA fighters for years without the use of steroids.

Barry, without meaning to sound condescending do you really think there is no steroid abuse in boxing?

Or use of things like GH and Insulin, nubain and pain killers????

Nothingcompares

i think steroid use/abuse at the highest level is relevant to kids coming into the game. None of them will see that level most likely. I personally think it's important to seperate the signficance of role models in sports etc. Yes, emulate him in terms of his work ethic, technical magestry, but don't take his life values on as your own, purely because he's at the highest level of your sport.

Children, gather around and listen, Roy Keane is a great athlete and competitor and a soccer genius but is quite possibly a total wanker. The list goes on.

Roper

Nothingcompares wrote:

I personally think it's important to seperate the signficance of role models in sports etc. Yes, emulate him in terms of his work ethic, technical magestry, but don't take his life values on as your own, purely because he's at the highest level of your sport.

Cristiano Ronaldo is a cheat. I tell my nephew that every time I meet him. He knows hes a cheat, but he loves him. Not that MMA is at the same level of importance as soccer, but you can see the difficulty in dividing the skill from the cheating.

Dragan,
Not that boxing was perfect all those years ago, but fighters have been fighting for years without steroid abuse (ie. before the sports science revolutions). In todays game, Frans Botha springs to mind as a recent example of a steroid abuser, but he didn't do that for the want of more frequent fights as was your contention.

Its cheating, in boxing, MMA, athletics, anything, as long as its against the rules. And once they make it legal I'll stop watching, because athletics is about the peak of human performance, not about the peak of human- synthetic chemical performance. What do you tell a kid then? "Look son, keep working hard, training, keep a good attitude, and one day, with the right concentration of nandralone, you could run that fast".

The argument of "oh its happening everywhere" is not a counter-argument, its a statement of the problem.

Dragan

Roper wrote:

but he didn't do that for the want of more frequent fights as was your contention.

Oh, i wasn't saying that the fighters themselves will take the juice just to fight more, i was implying that, in my opinion, DSE will happily turn a blind eye and have a no testing policy because if a good cycle means Wandy and Coleman can fight on 3 PPV's that year instead of 2 then that means more buys.

My shot on that was on the promotion itself, not the fighters.

Without a doubt running a cycle of anything that is banned is cheating. That is not an argument. "because athletics is about the peak of human performance, not about the peak of human- synthetic chemical performance" this line though i would disagree with.

All athletes at an Olympic level, or at a pro fight level, or at the top tier of their sport, utilise some kind of advance chemicals or products or technology to improve there perfromance.

The day of man vs man ended when two guys got together and said "maybe if we do this we will be better."

competition is now a man, or a woman, or a team and their support structure vs another man,woman or team and their support structure.

It just a case of anabolic steroids are chemicals they are not allowed to use, while there are many others that they are.

Lets not kid ourselves here.

topdog8

Steriod abuse is everywhere and not just at professional level.many promoters competitions do turn a blind eye to athlethes taking substance to improve there performance. i can garuntee that most fighters in the UFC use some substance. i can garuntee matt huges uses dieuretics to cut the weight for his fight he cant loose that much naturally.. does people consider this as an acceptable thing to do. the thing is steriods were here for a long time and have only recently became popular with amatures due to media attention and role models take arnie for example what kid didnt fantasise about being like arnie and having big muscles etc...

Clive

topdog8 wrote:

i can garuntee matt huges uses dieuretics to cut the weight for his fight he cant loose that much naturally.. does people consider this as an acceptable thing to do.

I could cut that much weight - I don't see why a guy with years of wrestling experience couldn't do the same, especially with the Miletich camp behind him. As Franklin said in TUF - we can do 20lbs, we do 20 lbs all the time.

Roper

Diuretics are a very bad way to cut weight if you want to perform any time soon after. Also, most aren't on the banned list.

Dragan,
Ultimately, the governing bodies of each sport come up with a list of rules to prevent it becoming Pfizer vs. Bayer. Yes supplements are used and I would take issue with certain types of supplementation that for example are turning sports like rugby into Rollerball 666. But thats no reason to throw the doors open and say "whatever, use what you want".

Dave Joyce

Just to go along with what Topdog said, I was just wondering if you guys differenciate between Anabolic Steroids and guys Juicing (as you can easily see I'm no expert what I mean is substances to boost your endurance/cardio as opposed to strenght gains) and if you find this is acceptable.

i can garuntee matt huges uses dieuretics to cut the weight for his fight he cant loose that much naturally.. does people consider this as an acceptable thing to do

Gotta agree with Clive on this. I've seen some Thai fighters cut incredible amounts of weight for fights and one of my Sayoc Kali teachers whose been involved in wrestling for over 30 years and had over 1000 competitive wrestling matches was telling me about how wrestlers in the States cut huge amounts of weight before fights on a regular basis. He'ed showed me a tape of one guy fighting and told me his walkabout weight and I couldn't believe that he made the weight class he was actually fighting in.

Roper

Dave Joyce wrote:

Just to go along with what Topdog said, I was just wondering if you guys differenciate between Anabolic Steroids and guys Juicing (as you can easily see I'm no expert what I mean is substances to boost your endurance/cardio as opposed to strenght gains) and if you find this is acceptable.

Hi Dave,
At the end of the day, you really have to put your faith in the banned substance list as put out by sporting organisations such as the Irish Sports Council. So as long as they're breaking a rule, they're cheats, be it strength or cardio they're gaining. We all know that there are legal substances that can aid you in strength or cardio- supplements etc.

Gotta agree with Clive on this. I've seen some Thai fighters cut incredible amounts of weight for fights and one of my Sayoc Kali teachers whose been involved in wrestling for over 30 years and had over 1000 competitive wrestling matches was telling me about how wrestlers in the States cut huge amounts of weight before fights on a regular basis. He'ed showed me a tape of one guy fighting and told me his walkabout weight and I couldn't believe that he made the weight class he was actually fighting in.

LOL, you put me in mind of a mate of mine who used to cut to, I think 57kgs for boxing. He used to spit, piss, and perform eh... various other bodily functions to make weight.

Stateside, wrestling has a "low as you can go" mindset. Even at cadet level they cut massive amounts of weight. I can't see a pro fighter and high level wrestler like Matt Hughes having a problem.

topdog8

Clive wrote:

I could cut that much weight - I don't see why a guy with years of wrestling experience couldn't do the same, especially with the Miletich camp behind him. As Franklin said in TUF - we can do 20lbs, we do 20 lbs all the time.

im not saying that its not possible its a hell of alot easier to cut with dieuretics than it is naturally and takes alot less strain from ur body if u know what ur doing

Clive

Roper wrote:

LOL, you put me in mind of a mate of mine who used to cut to, I think 57kgs for boxing. He used to spit, piss, and perform eh... various other bodily functions to make weight.

LMAO - I was talking to someone about this the other night. If you're staying off the ladies and the self-interference for a week or two before the fight, I'd say you could cut a kilo with a good charlie chank!

Of course if you're cutting that much, your foreskin will probably be stuck to you - they don't tell you that on TUF!

fatal

topdog8 wrote:

i can garuntee that most fighters in the UFC use some substance. i can garuntee matt huges uses dieuretics to cut the weight for his fight he cant loose that much naturally

how are gonna back that up?