don't think this Dublin team will ever win an all Ireland

DiscoHugh

as a life long and long suffering Dubs fan (22 years on this planet with one all Ireland to show for it) I came to this sad realization on the long walk home (i actually had to jog home to burn off some of the rage) from Croke park after the match...

I think Pillar Caffrey has done an excellent job and regardless of what many ppl say i think the Dublin team is the most physically gifted and talented team in the country...however. the team seems to be lacking that intangible quality, bottle, that Mayo had in spades in that match.

I hope I'm wrong but 2006 was there for the taking for Dublin. whatever about unjustified hype we had a good confidence building run to the semis with none of the traditional bogey northern teams in our path a seemingly sub-par Kerry (who i feel will handle Mayo easily, though again I really hope I'm wrong) awaiting in the final. as many a gaa journalist wrote it really almost felt like 2006 was destined to be the Dubs

now as that all lies in tatters i can't see any other year with so many things in Dublin's favour and in blowing a 7 point lead and lacking a Charlie Redmond for that guaranteed score from 45 or free I can't see Sam coming home for another stretch yet

Maybe that's just the misery talking though....

Flukey

Don't give up hope. Winning an All-Ireland is not easy. It is not a thing to get disheartened about. They have won 5 in my lifetime and I was at two of them. I am a Dubliner, a Dublin fan, but also a GAA fan. I think it would be great for Mayo to win the All-Ireland, as it was for Armagh in 2002 and Tyrone in 2005, both of whom knocked us out. As for Charlie Redmond, you may remember him missing two penalties in two different All-Ireland Finals, both of which we lost. Seeing Donegal in particular and even Down winning those two finals was good too. You have to enjoy the sport, not just the success of one team. Mayo's victory was their first over Dublin in the Championship. That was great for them. If they can then go on and win their first All-Ireland since 1951, that is something for any GAA fan to celebrate. Dublin are gone, again, but you can still enjoy the championship.

Aido c

I think you need big days and losses to steady a team, gel it and bond it.

Do not forget that Dublin lost only by a single point, and that Mayo put over many points that would have sailed wide on any other day.

Dublin is a massive county with a big pick, chances of rustling up one or two exceptional players are high, the veterans of this and last year will bring what they learned and it may just be enough.

There will always be that 16th player you have - the support.

Point is I see Dublin dominating leinster for many a year to come, (maybe this would have been a good place to start this thread) They will have always have the games and support in leinster to propel the forward like this year, and dont forget that the hype and the forward motion it creates is a positive thing. All you need is a lucky break and when you are so close it can just go your way.

All that you need is heart, culchie pointed this out to me before the Mayo Dublin game. Mayo have heart in spades, witness the miss from 20 or so yards that Mortimer made about 10 minutes in, remember when he turned around and smiled, thats heart. Succeeding is only about getting up one more time than you are knocked down.

Now Kerry .... .. much is made about the height that Donaghy brought to the team, more should be made about the heart.

dcr22B

Aido c wrote:

I think you need big days and losses to steady a team, gel it and bond it.

Do not forget that Dublin lost only by a single point, and that Mayo put over many points that would have sailed wide on any other day.

Dublin is a massive county with a big pick, chances of rustling up one or two exceptional players are high, the veterans of this and last year will bring what they learned and it may just be enough.

There will always be that 16th player you have - the support.

Point is I see Dublin dominating leinster for many a year to come, (maybe this would have been a good place to start this thread) They will have always have the games and support in leinster to propel the forward like this year, and dont forget that the hype and the forward motion it creates is a positive thing. All you need is a lucky break and when you are so close it can just go your way.

All that you need is heart, culchie pointed this out to me before the Mayo Dublin game. Mayo have heart in spades, witness the miss from 20 or so yards that Mortimer made about 10 minutes in, remember when he turned around and smiled, thats heart. Succeeding is only about getting up one more time than you are knocked down.

Now Kerry .... .. much is made about the height that Donaghy brought to the team, more should be made about the heart.

For once I'm inclined to agree a Kerryman!!!! :eek:

I've a good feeling that we can make Leinster our own for a few years to come just yet and I think what we need is a good strong League campaign next year and make the knockout stages as it's been too long since we reached that stage of the competition.

UnitedIrishman

The thing about Dublin is that they need to start using these losses, the narrow one point deficits into a motivational point like Mayo have done. Mayo have always been questioned over their bottle, over their heart when it comes to the crunch. They turned it around in their favour and said "Right, we're going to show we've got bottle." They'll never be questioned again.

What Dublin do is, they seem to start from scratch every single season. That is no good. You have to use the experience from year to year or else it's a fruitless exercise.

Culchie

UnitedIrishman wrote:

The thing about Dublin is that they need to start using these losses, the narrow one point deficits into a motivational point like Mayo have done. Mayo have always been questioned over their bottle, over their heart when it comes to the crunch. They turned it around in their favour and said "Right, we're going to show we've got bottle." They'll never be questioned again.

What Dublin do is, they seem to start from scratch every single season. That is no good. You have to use the experience from year to year or else it's a fruitless exercise.

Mayo had a good day in the office the last day, too early to say if all our troubles are behind us.

Mayo never lacked 'heart' anyway. They lacked leadership, and they lacked tactical direction, especially when Plan 'A' wasn't working.
We also had problems putting the correct 15 men on the pitch, and selecting the best 30 players in the county to represent us on the panel .... mainly due to internal politics, nepotism, and cliches.

Anyone that has closely viewed the form of Mayo Club championships and the AIB club championship can see that Mayo has the players and the talent.

We're exceptionally strong at the moment, and there's better to come.

We were big underdogs against Galway, Laois and Dublin, and hand on heart, I thought Mayo would win every time.


However, this thread is about Dublin. I know Aido wasn't on the forum a few months back, but I always felt Dublin were just a little bit short to win Sam.

Being honest, and I'm sure the Dublin fellahs will realise this is a compliment, I thought Mayo would beat Dublin easier than they did. I never fell into this 'media hype' rubbish, but I felt man for man, Mayo had the better players, and crucially (sound like a broken record) a better bench, and had more experience.

I watched a lot of Dublin SFC during my time up there in Dublin, and have alot of respect for the Dublin players, I know a couple of the older lads as well (and ones recently retired).
Fact of the matter is this Dublin team is alot better than I gave them credit for at the start of the year, I can't see anyone in Leinster giving them a game for years (which doesn't help Dublin's cause).

There's no easy fix to winning an All-Ireland, there's no god given right to win one, it takes years to lay the foundations, and you have to keep knocking at that door.
Dublin need to be there again next year in the last 4, and the year after etc...


And ... lol .... 22 years, you're only a young buck. You should join me and my father (who is 58) never missed a Mayo match, and lives, breathes and sleeps football. That's a man who want to see an All-Ireland title for his county.

As The Sawdoctors sing ..... "To Win ... Just Once"

UnitedIrishman

Culchie wrote:

Mayo had a good day in the office the last day, too early to say if all our troubles are behind us.

Mayo never lacked 'heart' anyway. They lacked leadership, and they lacked tactical direction, especially when Plan 'A' wasn't working.
We also had problems putting the correct 15 men on the pitch, and selecting the best 30 players in the county to represent us on the panel .... mainly due to internal politics, nepotism, and cliches.

Anyone that has closely viewed the form of Mayo Club championships and the AIB club championship can see that Mayo has the players and the talent.

We're exceptionally strong at the moment, and there's better to come.

We were big underdogs against Galway, Laois and Dublin, and hand on heart, I thought Mayo would win every time.

What I meant is that when Mayo teams got into the final's in the past, they got swept into the hype machine and it got to lads and they didn't have the mental bottle to go the step further. I interviewed David Heaney last Sunday and to use his words: "We don’t want to get too involved or caught up in all the hype because it gets to lads. You might not think it but psychologically it can soften you up and we don’t want that to happen." Ok maybe they didn't lack heart, but psychological toughness.

I was the complete opposite to yourself Culchie, I didn't think we could match them in every position. I felt their physicality and fitness would be too much for us (Having seen us play for 20 mins a half in the league).

The rotation system up front..I think confused the Dubs more than Mayo. The wrong man was at full back. Bryan Cullen is possibly better in an attacking role. The subs were a bit of a mess, too many changes can unsettle a side.

But it's a learning curve, it's from these experiences that you realise "OK Barry Cahill can't mark Conor Mortimor (or similar player), we need to change something here".

Flukey

Dublin weren't starting from scratch this year. They had a good season last year, beaten by the eventual All-Ireland champions, having taken them to a replay. They were knocked out by the eventual All-Ireland Champions in 2002 and 2004 too. Hopefully at the end of this year we will be able to say that we held the eventual All-Ireland Champions to a point.

DiscoHugh

^^ I remember those two penalty flukey. I'm talking more in terms of free taking. not entirely sold on Mossy Quinn as a free taker and I don't like free takers who kick from their hands (Conal Keaney)

I enjoy GAA of course and will be cheering for Mayo just as I did Armagh or any under dog but i have an deep seeded and irrational emotional attachment to Dublin football as basically unless I'm away my whole summer revolves around the campaign for Sam and crushing losses like this one send me down into the depths for a good while

elurhs

I wouldn't lose hope at all. If you have the players (which I think Dublin do) you are always in with a good chance. Who would have said after the 2004 final that mayo would be back in another final in 2006? There have been a few additions and players have improved, but still a lot of the same players in key positions. What happened to Dublin in the semi was very unlucky, imho. As a Mayoman I'm glad it happened, but we got a good slice of luck (for a change) and there was only a point in it. Chin up, and remember victory will taste all the sweeter after a few losses.

COME ON MAYO!!!

walshb

Dublin will win an all reland when they start to get serious and tough on players who continually kick balls wide. When players are physically taken off after 2-3 consecutive unchallenged shots that go wide. The whole setup is wrong, from the manager to the selectors to the players and to those who celebrate Leinster titles as if it was the greatest achievement ever. Dublin should not be settling for Poxy Leinster titles, beating Counties that have never won a damn thing. My god the hurlers can slot over shots from 80 metres whilst an opponent is trying to take their bloody heads off and we've got guys missing frees from 30 metres out without anyone harrassing them. It's not acceptable. I'm a Dub, but I can't stand to even watch them as they depress me with hat Sh**. I want them to win, but I can't get excited with silly Leinster titles against the likes of Laois and Kildare. The Dubs should have ten teams capable of winning an all Ireland from the pool they have.

blackbelt

I completely disagree.Dublin have won two all irelands in my lifetime 1983 (the year I was born) and 1995.While Dublin have been knocking on the door on and off,there seems to be more consistency in Dublin every year.After having two terrible managers in Tommy Carr and Tommy Lyons especially,Pillar Caffrey is a true Dub dedicated to getting results.

Dublin had not won a Leinster title since 2002 before Paul Caffrey took over.Now under his leadership,Dublin have won Leinster twice in a row.Now that we have done this,Dublin will be looking at the bigger picture that alludes them...Sam.It was speculated that Dublin would get to the semi final...even Bertie said so!! I believe that Dublin will only get better and I would not be surprised to see them in final next year.This team is capable of winning the All Ireland.I think Pillar will take from the defeat to Mayo and learn from his tactical mistakes that taking off Mossy Quinn at the end of a tight game is a mistake.I often wonder if one man could make a difference and I believe that Darren Homan could have been a big difference maker on the day if he had played against Mayo at full strength.

I wouldn't be too dispondent about Dublin hopes.Its a relatively young team which is getting stronger.I can't see any team really putting it up to Dublin in Leinster but I am enthusiastic about Longford and how they will progress.

Watch this space.

walshb

Isn't that my point. Leinster means nout as far as I' concerned and I do not believe we should be hapy with just winning Leinster titles. Caffrey is nothing but a big mouth. You only had to watch that Documentary on the Dubs 05 season to realise that. Big hard man and his constant swearing, total crap. No wonder we can't win a thing, if that's what the players are listening to day in day out.

Lemlin

Look at all the teams who have made the brealthrough in recent years like Aremagh, Tyrone and Galway. They all had their fair share of disappointment and lost quarter/ semi finals before they won anything.

Dublin will win the All-Ireland eventually.

walshb

Talk about playing it safe!!!!, 'Eventually'?????

blackbelt

Yes,we shouldn't be only happy to win Leinster but what would you like Dublin to do?...not win Leinster??

While retaining Leinster is the primary goal,I think Dublin will be more concerned about the All Ireland.Last year it was the Leinster title that Dublin concentrated on without a real view to much further progression.This year the focus was on at least Leinster and getting to a semi-final.

Now that Dublin have narrowly lost out to a final spot,I believe they will take from this defeat and be more determined and concentrated on reaching the final next year.I hope the other Leinster teams like Kildare,Laois,Longford and Meath up their game so it will benefit Dublin should they win Leinster again.It would be better preparation.

The Rooster

The defeat to Mayo was a huge psychological blow. It might knock them back a bit. A big operation for the management team to get the players over 2006 and to be optimistic about 2007.

But when they sit back and examine it they should see that there's no team out there who are much better or anywhere near unbeatable. So there's no reason why they can't be in the mix again next year, so hopefully they can put in the same effort they put in last year.

blackbelt

If they put in the same effort as they did this year plus a little bit more,they should reach a final.I believe the defense and the half back line are the problem for Dublin.Vaughn,Lally,Senan Connell should be given more opportunity for league matches in preparation for next years championship so that the bench will be stronger.

I think a team that will suffer heavily after this year is actually Armagh.They will find it harder to come back after that defeat to Kerry rather than Dublin who were scalped by Mayo.It might seem strange what I'm going to say but even in the match with Mayo where Dublin played well,it was very encouraging.

I remember 4 or 5 years ago,Dublin played Kerry and Kerry were hammering Dublin.In the second half Dublin came out and rallied against Kerry and mustered a draw.Dublins problem is rallying at the wrong time and then lagging off for 10-15 mins.Its a problem that has haunted Dublin since the 90s.I thought the problem had been dealt with this year in the games we played but against Mayo,it happened twice so I think theres a psychological issue there.If Dublin can sort this out,they will be an ultimate force in the next few years.

Culchie

blackbelt wrote:

If they put in the same effort as they did this year plus a little bit more,they should reach a final.I believe the defense and the half back line are the problem for Dublin.Vaughn,Lally,Senan Connell should be given more opportunity for league matches in preparation for next years championship so that the bench will be stronger.

I think a team that will suffer heavily after this year is actually Armagh.They will find it harder to come back after that defeat to Kerry rather than Dublin who were scalped by Mayo.It might seem strange what I'm going to say but even in the match with Mayo where Dublin played well,it was very encouraging.

I remember 4 or 5 years ago,Dublin played Kerry and Kerry were hammering Dublin.In the second half Dublin came out and rallied against Kerry and mustered a draw.Dublins problem is rallying at the wrong time and then lagging off for 10-15 mins.Its a problem that has haunted Dublin since the 90s.I thought the problem had been dealt with this year in the games we played but against Mayo,it happened twice so I think theres a psychological issue there.If Dublin can sort this out,they will be an ultimate force in the next few years.

I think the Dublin team has to evolve a bit yet, the bar has been raised, there is a very high platform base to work from, but I think there will be new players needed in certain positions yet to strengthen the squad.

Their dependence on Brogan is too much. You need about 6 new players brought in to really have competition for places, and maintain a good bench. None of the subs brought in by Dublin brought any sense of fear to me the last day (Vaughan the slight exception).

It could be a couple of years yet for Sam to come back to the capital, definitely on the right track though.

Lemlin

One thing I think Dublin need to do is get rid of Whelan. He's basically like David Beckham in the English team. Vastly overrated and goes missing when he's needed.

A new midfield partnership should be tested. Whelan doesn't cut it against the other top midfielders in the country. He's grand against the lesser counties but Mayo showed perfectly how he's useless against a decent opponent.