[ireland.com] Unofficial action disrupts Cork rail services

Navan Junction

Unofficial industrial action at Iarnrod Éireann has caused disruption in Cork for a second consecutive day.

The company said the "lightening unofficial industria action" by a small group of track maintenance staff in Cork, is affecting services at Kent Station in Cork city and the Cork-Cobh route.

Bus transfers are in operation on the Dublin/Cork route and

Line maintenance staff took action yesterday after they were asked to carry out duties they believe not to be in line with their responsibilities.

Iarnrod Éireann has set up an information line for customers on 1850 366 222.

© The Irish Times/ireland.com

El Stuntman

Navan Junction wrote:

Unofficial industrial action at Iarnrod Éireann has caused disruption in Cork for a second consecutive day.

The company said the "lightening unofficial industria action" by a small group of track maintenance staff in Cork, is affecting services at Kent Station in Cork city and the Cork-Cobh route.

Bus transfers are in operation on the Dublin/Cork route and

Line maintenance staff took action yesterday after they were asked to carry out duties they believe not to be in line with their responsibilities.

Iarnrod Éireann has set up an information line for customers on 1850 366 222.

© The Irish Times/ireland.com

according to RTE this morning, the workers (10 of them) were asked to do work that they considered to be 'line renewal' instead of 'line maintenance'

They actually did this work without demur on Monday (when the Cork hurling team were coming home!) but walked off the job yesterday

Now I know I've been slated for my views on our wonderful transport unions before on this forum but can anybody really give me a valid reason why these boyos should not be fired instantly?

(just as an aside, I work in IT but in the last three days, I've done legal, accounting and risk management work. And moved a few filing cabinets! What the hell is wrong with these people??)

Ham'nd'egger

Well put it this way...

Would you feel safe if you knew that unqualified, untrained or unequipped staff were fixing the track you travel on? I know I would.

El Stuntman

Hamndegger wrote:

Well put it this way...

Would you feel safe if you knew that unqualified, untrained or unequipped staff were fixing the track you travel on? I know I would.

so why do it one day without complaint and the next walk off the job?

Wishbone Ash

El Stuntman wrote:

so why do it one day without complaint and the next walk off the job?

They may have done it under protest. They cannot refuse to carry out a task assigned by a superior (provided it is legal obviously). They have to continue with it and inform them that they am doing it "under protest". In the meantime their TU can discuss the matter. It would seem that their TU did not agree with them.

It's a "wildcat" strike which is illegal under the Industrial Relations Act 1990 as a secret ballot must be carried out among members prior to striking.

El Stuntman

Wishbone Ash wrote:

They may have done it under protest. They cannot refuse to carry out a task assigned by a superior (provided it is legal obviously). They have to continue with it and inform them that they am doing it "under protest". In the meantime their TU can discuss the matter. It would seem that their TU did not agree with them.

It's a "wildcat" strike which is illegal under the Industrial Relations Act 1990 as a secret ballot must be carried out among members prior to striking.

thanks for the clarification

so they will be fired then?

MarkoP11

They called it off at 10am

El Stuntman

so they caused large-scale disruption for nothing

what kind of consequences will befall them for this? I seriously would like to know although I suspect I know the answer already

Wishbone Ash

El Stuntman wrote:

so they will be fired then?

While I understand your frustration, IE has to look at the whole picture. It may not be in their best interests to dismiss them as it may have huge implications. It would be more effective to grasp the nettle now but no one looks at the long term picture. I have no doubt that they will be disciplined in some way. They will also lose their pay for the time on strike (and will not receive TU strike pay)and will have broken their contract of employment.

El Stuntman

Wishbone Ash wrote:

While I understand your frustration, IE has to look at the whole picture. It may not be in their best interests to dismiss them as it may have huge implications. It would be more effective to grasp the nettle now but no one looks at the long term picture. I have no doubt that they will be disciplined in some way. They will also lose their pay for the time on strike (and will not receive TU strike pay)and will have broken their contract of employment.

surely it would be in IE's best interests to get rid of this dead wood?

MrPudding

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I have no doubt that they will be disciplined in some way. They will also lose their pay for the time on strike

ooooh scary. I bet they are sh1tting themselves wondering what is going to happen to them.

Exactly why can they not be fired for breaching the term of their contract of employment, you know, like any other person that lives and works in the real fcuking world?

MrP

El Stuntman

well said Mr Pudding!!

yeah, why not? I fired a guy last month for turning up late and hungover twice...

MarkoP11

So if you fire the guy who drives the 5:30 Cork Dublin who is going to replace him? It takes 50 weeks to train a driver, guard, signalmen etc also have long training periods laid down to ensure safety

Thats the lock in the unions have, they know that its impossible to replace there members anyway quickly, they know even quailifed staff from other countries will be subject to long training periods

Back in May the drivers in Cork all showed up to drive as per normal and where told to take the new train out, the instructions they had where changed by management last minute to push the staff into a corner, problem was the new train was not servicable, not fueled and still in plastic wrapping

People do get sacked, most you never hear about since it clear cut, its the middle ground of the disciplinary matter where the war is

Primary concern is to get services back up and running ASAP

El Stuntman

MarkoP11 wrote:

So if you fire the guy who drives the 5:30 Cork Dublin who is going to replace him?

we're not talking about drivers in this instance...we're talking about the lads in the bright yellow jackets who hand around in sheds smoking and readin De Star's racing pages (mildly tounge in cheek before you all jump on me)

sounds like the IE management are as bad as the workers - is this fair to say Marko?

MrPudding

MarkoP11 wrote:

So if you fire the guy who drives the 5:30 Cork Dublin who is going to replace him? It takes 50 weeks to train a driver, guard, signalmen etc also have long training periods laid down to ensure safety

Thats the lock in the unions have, they know that its impossible to replace there members anyway quickly, they know even quailifed staff from other countries will be subject to long training periods

Back in May the drivers in Cork all showed up to drive as per normal and where told to take the new train out, the instructions they had where changed by management last minute to push the staff into a corner, problem was the new train was not servicable, not fueled and still in plastic wrapping

People do get sacked, most you never hear about since it clear cut, its the middle ground of the disciplinary matter where the war is

Primary concern is to get services back up and running ASAP

People with highly sought after and hard to develop skills get sacked all the time in the real world. It happens and the world continues to spin.

I can see the difficulty with driver where it takes so long to train a new one but there has to be a way round it. We cannot continue to be held to ransom by these people.

MrP

El Stuntman

hear hear

bottom line: these guys refused to work and walked out on the job in breach of their contracts, causing disruption to the company's customer base, damaging the company's reputation and causing them financial losses

if I was their boss, their P45s would be in the post right now and I would both expect and demand full support from my boss for my actions

of course, as Mr P rightly says the real world doesn't intrude in the protected sector of the economy so nothing will happen. We need an Irish Thatcher!! Mary Harney anyone?

MarkoP11

The 2000 or so daily rail commuters in Cork don't give damn why they just want to go home, start sacking people and no one is going anywhere and doesn't deal with the root problem

Now clearly there is a serious problem in the Cork region, it could be management it could be staff, its most likely both. Very little coverage on this in the media, its getting the like the boy who cried wolf.

This is a safety critical business, training and certification is required and no corners can be cut, or else people get killed. Anyone trackside must be certified. Most jobs, from the guy who walks the track up to signalman, guard and driver are all required to be signed off on the routes upon which they work.

The only train drivers who could work in Ireland quickly are those from Northern Ireland since they follow the same rulebook but it would take weeks if not months to train them in local proceedure, routes and equipment

If the guys who walk the track go out on strike, the track is not inspected and after a set number of days the line must be closed until it is inspected. If the guy who walks the track reports a defect the repair team have to go on site, certain faults require immediate removal, i.e. 24 hours otherwise line closed, its a big machine one missing element it all halts

End of the day the only thing we want is a immediate restoration of services so everyone can go about there business

gobdaw

El Stuntman wrote:

We need an Irish Thatcher!! Mary Harney anyone?

Why the delay in airport terminal, Mary?

Why the Luas lines don't join, Mary?

Where are the 200 additional busses for Dublin, Mary?

Where are the 100 additional busses for the rest of the country, Mary?

Oh, how is A&E in the hospitals, Mary?

Err, no thanks. Anyway, what we'd get would be Tom Morressey.

Wishbone Ash

MrPudding wrote:

Exactly why can they not be fired

If you read my post again MrPudding you will see that I didn't say they can't be dismissed.

Davidth88

Be careful what you wish for guys........


Remember what happened in Hatfield ( UK ) ............ that is the ultimate price you would pay if people put money before safety

What is the issue down is Cork anyway , were these guys being asked to do work they were not trained / qualified for ..... in which case we owe them thanks ......

If they are trained/qualified and its a stupid demarkation line then the unions/mgmt need their heads banging together.

MarkoP11

They are trained to work trackside, renewal/maintenance is more or less the same, same rules same proceedure just its more labour intensive, there are senior people to ensure it is done correctly more so in the case of renewal. Hatfield in the UK was management not lack of training on the ground, the defect was known and had been reported. I'd be thinking more Ladbrooke Grove, newly trained driver not familar with route, training program and selection where not up to best practice

Davidth88

I thought the positioning of the signals were also found to be at fault in Ladbroke Grove.

I didn't know the fault in Hatfield had been reported , OMG that makes it ten times worse !

So I assume this was a demarkation issue , ie two men to change a light bulb , one to remove the old one and one to put in the new one... then they call in the tester to switch it on to check it works , that sort of thing.

I suppose any change in work practices needs to me managed correctly thats the bottom line.

MarkoP11

No accident occurs for one reason normally its a heap of reasons which combine together, the Ladbrooke Grove accident was a combination of penny pinching by the operator by not installing safety equipment, short training period, lack of experience, dodgy signal location and slow response by signalling staff, the black box showed the train accelerated hard after a warning bell (red or yellow). The operator admitted to breaches of health and safety with relation to training

As I keep saying its a big system, it all stops if one person walks away. It may seem ideal to sack everyone and start fresh but you come back to a basic problem of how is everyone going to get home while replacements are trained

Get trains moving first

Aidan1

End of the day the only thing we want is a immediate restoration of services so everyone can go about there business

Which is precisely why the unions (and staff) in Irish Rail (and elsewhere in the CIE group) know that they have the state over a barrel. Like ESB, or like Telecom Eireann once were. Long term reform, institutional and otherwise is sacrificed on the altar of todays operations.

They, along with the company as a whole, need to be challenged as to the efficiency and effectiveness with which they are doing their jobs. The state invests in the company, both in terms of subvention and in terms of capex. This means that the travelling public pay twice, through taxation and through fares. However, because the state is the only shareholder means that the unions (and management also) are able to get away without justifying their actions and the public don't get value for money.

The fact that this investment is not as much as many would like is at least partially due to the fact that many people are very cynical about the type of service Irish Rail can provide given their IR difficulties. They need a regulator. Fast.

MarkoP11

Last three time everyone has gone back to work with no actual concessions, no change in work practices, hours, rosters or pay. The unions got zlich, and day by day are becoming ever more distant from the real world and are up against a wall, they have little or no public support or sympathy and attempts to hold us to ransom in the past eg the DART 8 coach fiasco collapsed and exposed the naked greed of some. Back in the dark ages the unions got what they wanted not any more

The whole accountabilty issue is something we are working on, it requires a lot of hoop jumping to get the information. What we do know is that the cost per passenger carried is falling and government subvention is climbing at close to the rate of inflation while passenger numbers are in double digit growth. The UK has seen growth also but state aid is now 3 times what it was pre privitisation

A regulator for transport in Dublin is coming in the form of the DTA

The Minister for Transport holds the only share on behalf of the state

Transport21 Fan

Aidan1 wrote:

Which is precisely why the unions (and staff) in Irish Rail (and elsewhere in the CIE group) know that they have the state over a barrel. Like ESB, or like Telecom Eireann once were. Long term reform, institutional and otherwise is sacrificed on the altar of todays operations.

They, along with the company as a whole, need to be challenged as to the efficiency and effectiveness with which they are doing their jobs. The state invests in the company, both in terms of subvention and in terms of capex. This means that the travelling public pay twice, through taxation and through fares. However, because the state is the only shareholder means that the unions (and management also) are able to get away without justifying their actions and the public don't get value for money.

The fact that this investment is not as much as many would like is at least partially due to the fact that many people are very cynical about the type of service Irish Rail can provide given their IR difficulties. They need a regulator. Fast.

Having been out of the country and coming back home to the usual CIE union 'circus of the absurd' in lieu of public transport provision, I must say it is refreshing to read the post above.

Yes tough regulation must come ASAP. Having been in the USA recently were in "the land of the car", and often against a back-drop of viceral, governmental hostility towards public transport funding, all the transit operators there would put CIE to shame for the service, integration and customer service they deliver.

What happened today should not be even remotely accepted by people who care about rail (and public) transport development in Ireland. This carry-on alienates the rail passengers from using trains to get around, has already sucessfully frightened off most of the commerical shippers from using railfreight, and more importantly, prevents government's from putting serious investment into rail (that includes the tax breaks for railfreight).

Serious regulation must come first, followed by the total dismantling of CIE. I really do not care what replaces CIE, be it privatisation, publically-operated or preferably a combination of both. Once we are rid of this CIE with its incompetent mangers and strike-addicted unions forever.

The can't put the right railcars on the Sligo line, they scrap perfectly useful rail freight wagons and passenger coaches, they constantly have the wrong destination boards on trains, they are the main reason why integrated ticketing is a mess, they have the wrong locos pulling the new coaches, they order DD buses with no back entrance, they ignore the potential of the Phoenix Park tunnel and the Midland line, the rail unions have jobs for life and massive investment in their company, which will safeguard their jobs even furrther and yet they still go on strike...but you can bet your bottom dollar that the CIE Spencer Dock conference centre, CIE millionaire apartments and CIE blue rinse Yank tourist coach tours are perfectly run.

It anyone wants to know what CIE is and what it stands for, then just go to the arrivals section of Dublin Airport and look at the CIE kiosk and try to find a bus or train timetable in amongst all the Tourist Coach Tours, Ballykissangle and Railbreak propaganda and then you tell me if they are a public transport provider.

CIE and the majority (not all) of its management and workforce is lost in the 1970's. There are still providing the Chicken Ala King and Blue Nun version of public transport. Not good enough anymore and to be honest it was never good enough even back then.