The Geometry of Love - a theory (mine)

metrovelvet

If you look at two intersecting circles there is a region which is shared, and this region is known as the Vesica Piscis* which is is formed by the intersection of two circle or spheres whose centers exactly touch. Romantic I think.

I like to look at this region and think of it as fusion, like the fusion that happens when two people fall for each other. In this region there is unity, a feeling of oneness, compatibility and all the craziness that comes with that.

However, with that fusion, it amplifies all the remaining area which is not fused -leaving you with the feeling that you can never really know someone, and which brings to conciousness through this contrast, a loudness in one's lonliness. So what happens is that once that comes to light - through however much time it takes to - a separation occurs and people seek fusion elsewhere only to find the same thing over an over again.

So looking at these overlapping circles, it seems to me that people make the mistake of thinking that love solves the problem of loneliness when what it really does is create more, different and more beautiful problems.

*Fyi -The Vesica Piscis holds great symbolic power [in the near east a vagina, for Christianty The Holy Trinity, [Yeah i know - how did that happen? . Not only that you can fit two equaliteral triangles in it.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Yeah I'd pretty much agree most people think love is a great cure for lonlieness - and it works on a temporary basis. Your theory would be a much better way to live!

Have another theory. Bit more sciencey. What if you were the type of guy who enjoyed the initial part of a relationship but got bored with the ongoing nature - if there was no social pressure(laws etc) & you had no conscience - surely this guy would have a greater chance of spreading his seed. Maybe this happened during our evolution.

So is it more acceptable for men to cheat? Genetic urges & such. Sorry somewhat unrelated but your theory reminded me of this one.

_patchouli

metrovelvet wrote:

I like to look at this region and think of it as fusion, like the fusion that happens when two people fall for each other. In this region there is unity, a feeling of oneness, compatibility and all the craziness that comes with that.

However, with that fusion, it amplifies all the remaining area which is not fused -leaving you with the feeling that you can never really know someone, and which brings to conciousness through this contrast, a loudness in one's lonliness. So what happens is that once that comes to light - through however much time it takes to - a separation occurs and people seek fusion elsewhere only to find the same thing over an over again.

So looking at these overlapping circles, it seems to me that people make the mistake of thinking that love solves the problem of loneliness when what it really does is create more, different and more beautiful problems.

Maybe I don't understand what is meant by "the problem of loneliness" in the context of love being a possible solution.
Is it not obvious that falling/being in love does by definition solve loneliness?!
How long the love lasts is a seperate issue...

Oh, and the "more beautiful problems" I don't think is necessarily true! Beautiful from whose point of view?

As for the overlapping circles, I would tend to think of the process of falling in love and being in love as the meeting and overlapping of several circles representing the various facets of the personalities involved. The circles which overlap least would represent the potential weak points in the ensuing relationship.

metrovelvet

_patchouli wrote:

Maybe I don't understand what is meant by "the problem of loneliness" in the context of love being a possible solution.
Is it not obvious that falling/being in love does by definition solve loneliness?!

I think this is the assumption people make, but like being drunk it only lasts for so long while your in the crazy hormone stage. When you're out of it, you still love the person, but your separateness becomes far more illuminated. Thinking that love will solve your lonliness will lead to dissillusionment, disspointment and unecessary heartbreak [imo].

_patchouli wrote:

Oh, and the "more beautiful problems" I don't think is necessarily true! Beautiful from whose point of view?

Well obviously beauty is subjective, but when I see the intersecting circles, the visica piscese and all the potential geometric patterns, I see fusion and also lots of problems [geometric], but these problems are beautiful problems, much like the problems which emerge when separateness or aloneness is brought to awareness. When these emotional/relating problems emerge, beautiful things can happen, like reaching, like really stretching for someone, or redesigning or reshaping how you can connect.

_patchouli wrote:

As for the overlapping circles, I would tend to think of the process of falling in love and being in love as the meeting and overlapping of several circles representing the various facets of the personalities involved. The circles which overlap least would represent the potential weak points in the ensuing relationship.

I see. Yeah thats too complicated for me. Although thats interesting in a more fragmented and musical way. I imagine your concept is much like a Kandinsky? [also beautiful]

http://www.glyphs.com/art/kandinsky/comp6640.jpg

_patchouli

metrovelvet wrote:

I think this is the assumption people make, but like being drunk it only lasts for so long while your in the crazy hormone stage. When you're out of it, you still love the person, but your separateness becomes far more illuminated. Thinking that love will solve your lonliness will lead to dissillusionment, disspointment and unecessary heartbreak [imo].

Ok, yeah I do see what you're saying now.
I think when in the op, you used the word "amplified" to describe the loneliness, I somehow didn't get it; but then when you used "illuminated" to describe the same thing, I immediately got it! (Suppose that could confirm that I'm more of a "visual" type )

Back to topic:
I suppose it correlates to the extent to which one's loneliness is a reflection of a kind of poverty of the self.
Would you agree that this kind of heartbreak/disappointment etc is more prevalent in young, inexperienced lovers?

If the people involved in the relationship have an awareness/understanding of this dynamic, it would serve to lessen it's impact...

metrovelvet

_patchouli wrote:

Ok, yeah I do see what you're saying now.
I think when in the op, you used the word "amplified" to describe the loneliness, I somehow didn't get it; but then when you used "illuminated" to describe the same thing, I immediately got it! (Suppose that could confirm that I'm more of a "visual" type )

Back to topic:
I suppose it correlates to the extent to which one's loneliness is a reflection of a kind of poverty of the self.
Would you agree that this kind of heartbreak/disappointment etc is more prevalent in young, inexperienced lovers?

If the people involved in the relationship have an awareness/understanding of this dynamic, it would serve to lessen it's impact...

I should have used a visual rather than audial term there seeing as how I provided an image rather than a musical phrase or sound. My mistake.

I would agree that this tendancy is certainly a product of immaturity which can happen at any age. And yes I do think when you are aware of this, that you have done this repeatedly it does serve to help you not do it again or be more aware next time your centre touches another's.

Poverty of the self? Hmnn that's interesting. Could you say more?

MeatProduct

Hello Metrovelvet,

I was very surprised to come across this thread, most impressed Can I assume you've studied sacred geometry a bit since you're discussing the geometry of love? I've attended a few workshops on this and similar topics. While I think much of what you are saying is very true it is my experience that your example can be applied on a deeper level. For me, the Vesica Piscis holds the key to integrating yourself into oneness rather than flipping between either pole (the areas outside the intersection). The ratio of the axes of the form is the square root of 3, which as you've pointed out, represents the trinity.

You don not have to stop with 2 intersecting circles either. Continue to add circles and The Flower of Life is generated indicating the connected nature of all things. This geometry also holds all the information for creating the platonic solids, the more complex of which are governed by phi. Phi, is the geometry of the human heart both physically and energetically and that is the key to decoding creation and human consciousness.



Nick

metrovelvet

No I never studied sacred geometry. I just like geometry and see that basic shapes are the fundamentals of art history and well I like the arts.

Thanks for all that math info meatproduct! Wow. That's really interesting.

Phi, is the geometry of the human heart both physically and energetically and that is the key to decoding creation and human consciousness.


Can you say more about this? Sorry, Im just having trouble understanding.

MeatProduct

metrovelvet wrote:

Can you say more about this? Sorry, Im just having trouble understanding.

Absolutely! I'm really delighted that you have an understanding of this, and that you came across it by yourself, most impressed! I don't want to get into this too much on a public forum as it can generate fear in folks that think it's a bit strange, sure I used to be a bit freaked out by such topics myself

Phi = 1.618..... it goes on infinitely (which is nice)

I've done up some diagrams for you here and I'll attempt to explain a bit about Phi and how important it is in creation.

One of the most recognisable places that phi pops up is in the fibonacci series. You start with 1 and you add it to itself, this is symbolic of oneness duplicating itself so that creation can be manifest. Now you add these two 1's together and create 2, their child and offering balance to the polarity of the two 1's. Now add the 2 and the most recently created 1 to create the many, 3. This carries on in the following fashion:

1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,......

The beauty of this is that each number has perfect memory of it's parents and, ultimately, of it's source so that no matter how far away it gets it can always get back there. But a key is needed! That key is phi.

Now you might have noticed a tendency in this sequence. Start with the first two numbers and divide the first into the last (1/1 = 1). Now do this for the next two (2/1 = 2), and carry on:

3/2 = 1.5
5/3 = 1.66666.....
8/5 = 1.6
13/8 = 1.625
21/13 = 1.615.....

As the numbers get bigger the closer we get to phi, the more we need to remember the source!

I'll continue on in a new post

Nick

MeatProduct

So we start with a point in the void. Imagine it as a dot on a page.

It duplicates itself creating two points on the page which can be connected by a line and it enters 1-dimensional existance.


They create the third which gives us the triangle and 2-dimensions! It offers stability and support to the two which were in constant polarity with now balance point, like what you discussed in your original post. Indeed love could be seen as this 3rd point entering where there is commonality, a centre of sorts but not a true one, hence the elusivness. The triangle gives us the means of creating every other shape that follows.

By creating the fourth double the amount of information can be compressed than the triangle. This gives birth to the root of 2 which is an expression of truth and is infinite.


I must leave my office for a while now but I will get back to this!



Nick

MeatProduct

The next step in the progression is 5, giving us the pentagon. This has some magical properties.

An important consideration is that all sides are equal. Draw any two lines that connect points where the lines of the pentagon meet:

In this case we make the lines "ad" and "be". Now look at their intersecting point "x". What you are looking at steps back beyond creation itself and I shall explain why! We shall now focus on the orange line "ad" and the parts that make it up "ax" and "xd". "ad" is 1.618.... times longer than "xd", how nice And, as it happens, "xd" is 1.618.... times longer than "ax"! Now here comes the magic: "ax" is 0.618.... times longer than "xd" and "xd" is 0.618... times longer than "ad".
So do you see what's happened here? We have stepped behind 1, the creator. We have done so yet retained the key! 0.618.... This has big implications that are worth dwelling on.

Continue to connect up the points and you create a pentagram where all the bisecting lines are in phi (or golden mean, golden section, golden proportion) ratio.



(If you would like to try this out yourself you could use some CAD software. If you don't have access to software I could send you some samples with dimensions on them.)



Nick

metrovelvet

You know, I arrived at my theory from a completely different place, from dance, which as Im sure you know has a sacred history. What dance does, through the body using energy to make a dynamise shapes in an organised rational apoolonian [ballet] or less rational -dyonisac [jazz] way is make sense out of those things inside us, from passions to experiences, for which language fails. There is something amazing about being able to acknowlege in a manifest way what we carry around inside us.

It will take some time for me to be able to comprehend these diagrams and utilise them that same way.

If I think if math as another language to describe something, what does all this geometry say? I do see the elegance in it, but forgive me Im struggling to see how it relates to human experience. Can you help?

Kell

_patchouli wrote:

"the problem of loneliness"

Lonliness is a product of being unable to be comfortable in ones own company removed from human contact. Personally, I dont see absence from contact a problem and something I am working on constantly i.e. being comfortable with no interaction from others thus being free of loneliness.

From what I can see, the majority of society has problems being alone, and being alone is described as being a problem. Why not work on aloneness NOT being a problem so the public perception of it being an issue diminishes.

Off topic, but again something I have been thinking about for ages.

MeatProduct wrote:

Continue to add circles and The Flower of Life is generated indicating the connected nature of all things

Having drawn the flower of life repeatedly over the years, can you explain why there are fractional variances in the sizes of the intersections? Granted, they have been drawn with compass so allow for minute changes to the diameter of the intersecting circles. Does this happen when you draw it with CAD?

K-

metrovelvet

Kell wrote:

Personally, I dont see absence from contact a problem and something I am working on constantly i.e. being comfortable with no interaction from others thus being free of loneliness.

It seems to me that sometimes being with someone can actually make you feel more lonely.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

so.. this is what it looks like when math is raped.

Phi, is the geometry of the human heart both physically and energetically and that is the key to decoding creation and human consciousness.

Kell

metrovelvet wrote:

It seems to me that sometimes being with someone can actually make you feel more lonely.

Please explain. In the "ideal" relationship as psychologists and others would like us to get to, the relationship is what I would call "positive indifference" i.e. you fully integrate your partner into your life. You dont get upset/sad/lonely etc when they are not around because you quite simply accept them and the dynamic of the relationship. This doesnt of course stop you feeling happy when they are around.

This is what I am trying to work to so I dont understand how being with someone could possibly make you lonely. If you forget about loneliness, you quit stressing why you havnt heard from your friends/family/whoever for a few weeks, months etc.

Whenever I contemplate loneliness, I ask myself if I am going to to have fun with x person the next time I see them. The answer is invariably yes, so whats the point in stressing about being lonely?

K-

metrovelvet

^ Exactly. I think you reach this at certain maturities. Its like the more you know, the more you know you dont know when it comes to being with someone. Do you get me?

I dont stress about it, its just something Ive been thinking about.

Kell

metrovelvet wrote:

^ Exactly. I think you reach this at certain maturities. Its like the more you know, the more you know you dont know when it comes to being with someone. Do you get me?

No I dont get you. Comfort & ease with a person comes from "knowing" that your feelings for them and theirs for you wont change irrelevant of the circumstance. Example- for the first time in 15yrs I can sit with my best mate in comfortable silence for extended periods. Prior to this, comfort equated something wrong in my mind. Now, if I know less about the friend/friend relationship as it continues, those silences would not be comfortable based on me assuming something was wrong or wondering what he was thinking.

I am still lost as to how you find that being with someone can be lonlier than when your on your tod. Are you implying that the moments of silence you enjoy on your tod in total comfort with yourself are somehow interrupted by the presence of another cutting off your comfort with yourself therefore making you "miss" yourself?

:rolleyes: See, I am lost as to where you are coming from.

K-

metrovelvet

Ok. Let me see if I can explain it.

Its not so much about comfort and ease or what you feel in silences, but more about a kind of conciousness.

You know how the more you study and learn, the more you realise how much there is you dont know?

And you know that feeling with someone where there is mystery and you feel like you havent even discovered America yet with them and its all very exciting?

Well, if you think of it each of us as having territitories, oceans and universes inside of us, maybe it that will help? Its like you share some of the same terraine but then realise there are infinite boundaries and borders you cant ever know. In many ways its lonely, but also exciting. [Sometimes its just lonely though].

You can still feel "simpatico" with someone and also alone all at the same time.

Kell

metrovelvet wrote:

Its like you share some of the same terraine but then realise there are infinite boundaries and borders you cant ever know. In many ways its lonely, but also exciting. [Sometimes its just lonely though].

I see where you are coming from, but I cant equate that unknown as lonely, I just see it as an adventure. But thats me.

TBH, I would think there is something dysfunctional if the eploration of someones parameters leaves someone feeling lonely.

K-

metrovelvet

I do also see it as adventure, but arent there parts of yourself that someone cant ever know? Arent there parts of you that some people know and others dont?

For example, our parents, how many of us actually know them? Do you get me? You know them on one level, but you dont know them on many many others.

Kell

metrovelvet wrote:

For example, our parents, how many of us actually know them? Do you get me? You know them on one level, but you dont know them on many many others.

Depends on the relationship you have with your folks. Personally, my family know little about me and thats the way I would prefer it to stay.

On the other hand, my best friend of 15yrs knows pretty much everything in relation to me, my thoughts, my feelings on most things. There are also other friends of mine like this who can read me better than I can read myself and vice versa.

With these folk, there will never be loneliness irrelevant of distance, time etc.

K-