Rezoning @ 10 AM Monday IN THE COUNCIL

Marcais

JUST BEEN ADVISED THAT THIS IS AT 10AM BUT I CAN'T EDIT THE TOPIC HEADING

Please see below from The Greystones Protection and Development Association. We managed to get about 70 submissions in on the Local Area Plan, basically stating our view that the plan as presented, was sufficient to meet the residential needs of Greystones and was indeed ahead of target in this area, and that no rezoning should be considered without consultation of the people of Greystones.

Our submission focused in particular on lands adjacent to Charlesland. If however, we can stop the overdevelopment of the Harbour, this would put the Council on notice that they will get away with nothing without consultation and agreement.

Please do all you can this weekend. I've pasted e-mail links here to make it really easy AND your e-mails will have effect..there is an election approaching, make sure to put your name an address on e-mails voicing your concerns. OR get on the blower.

Greystones Electoral Area

Labour Tom Fortune, "The Bungalow", Sea Raod, Kilcolle, Co.Wicklow (01) 2876135 e-mail Tom

FG Derek Mitchell, "Kiltoorish", Manor Avenue, Greystones, Co.Wicklow (01) 2874115 e-mail His Eminence

FG George Jones, 2 la Touche Close, Greystones, Co.Wicklow (01) 2875678(H), (01) 6363210(O) e-mail Gorgeous George

FF Kathleen Kelleher, 27 Rathdown Park, Greystones, Co.Wicklow (01) 2875327 e-mail The First Lady.

- e-mail them all: Full List of County Councillors

Wikpedia Information on the Council

From GPDA:

FOR YOUR INFORMATION :

THE LOCAL AREA PLAN FOR GREYSTONES AND DELGANY

WILL BE DISCUSSED BY WICKLOW CO. CO

THIS MONDAY (SEPTEMBER 4TH.) @ 10:00am IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBERS IN WICKLOW TOWN.

THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT MEETING AS ALL THE NEW ZONING AND REZONING WILL

BE PUT THROUGH AND VOTED ON BY THE COUNCILLORS ESPECIALLY OUR 4 LOCAL AREA COUNCILLORS..

GEORGE JONES (FG)
DEREK MITCHELL (FG)
KATHLEEN KELLEHER (FF) AND
TOM FORTUNE (LAB)

IF ANYONE IS AVAILABLE TO ATTEND THIS MEETING IT WOULD BE GREAT...HOWEVER IF YOU ARE UNABLE TO DO SO WE ARE
ASKING YOU TO CONTACT THE COUNCILLORS AND REINFORCE THESE POINTS THAT:

REZONING OF LANDS IS NO LONGER REQUIRED TO MEET THE POPULATION NEEDS OF GREYSTONES/DELGANY

THE LOCAL AREA PLAN MUST INCLUDE THE IMPACT OF ANY DEVELOPMENT AT THE HARBOUR ON THE OVERALL PLAN (presently it is not considered at all) GIVEN THE LETTER FROM AN BORD PLEANÁLA REQUESTING A REDESIGN AND SCALING BACK OF THE HARBOUR PROJECT THAT ...............A NEW PLAN ON A SMALLER SCALE FOR THE HARBOUR BE INCLUDED IN THE NEW LAP

THE DESIGNATION ACE (ARCHITECTURAL CONSERVATION AREA ) BE PLACED ON THE HARBOUR TO PROTECT THE VICTORIAN HERITAGE

PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT OTHER ISSUES HOWEVER WE ARE FOCUSING ON THE NARROW ONES RELATING TO THE HARBOUR. BUT FEEL FREE TO INCLUDE YOUR OWN PERSONAL CONCERNS AS THIS IS PROBABLY THE LAST OPPORTUNITY YOU HAVE TO IMPACT ON THE PLAN.......

Sparks115

Fairplay to you Marcais...I have just emailed every single councillors
in one big nicely worded email and cc Dick Roche too.

I really urge everyone to do the same. Please please do what you can now. Dont sit back and just read this and do nothing make a difference. Its not only for you but for the familys you may have or plan to have or do it just for yourself. your voice counts .:D

Marcais

The Council Meeting Is At 10am - Sorry, Only Just Received Amendment

Eoin

Marcais wrote:

The Council Meeting Is At 10am - Sorry, Only Just Received Amendment

thread title updated

Fiachra2

I just got a call from Wicklow County Council. I understand that Mssrs Jones, Mitchell and Kelleher are this afternoon, enthusiastically rezoning Charlesland for more housing.

I will post more details when I receive them.

Marcais

Fiachra2 wrote:

I just got a call from Wicklow County Council. I understand that Mssrs Jones, Mitchell and Kelleher are this afternoon, enthusiastically rezoning Charlesland for more housing.

I will post more details when I receive them.

Yes, apparently The Mayor "agrees that the town is ahead of the population targets and is not in favour of any large scale extra housing"

But is in favour of 250 houses being built adjacent to Charlesland because that's what we really want apparently.

Similar to "I was in favour of the Marina with 375 apartments etc. but I asked that it be reduced by 60 or so apartments and jigged about slightly" (comparable to agreeing to a full scale model of King Kong in the Harbour as long as he doesn't wear a cap) I am on the side of development and I am opposed to development.

375 apartments, 1,000 space car park, bye bye harbour as we know it = Overdevelopment. 315 apartments, 1,000 space car park, bye bye harbour as we know it = essential development ?

There's only two Derek Mitchells..two Derek Mitchells, there's only two Derek Mitchells..

Fiachra2

Below is Press release on events at WCC yesterday.


Councillor's proposal for massive out- of -town shopping centre at Charlesland is bad planning says de Burca

Green Party councillor, Deirdre de Burca has criticised a proposal by Greystones councillors to rezone a large site at Charlesland for a massive out of town shopping centre of 20,000 sq metres, retail warehousing of 16,000 sq metres and retail and car showrooms. The proposal also included 210 residential units with floor areas of up to 220sq metres. The rezoning motion was proposed by Cllr George Jones (FG), seconded by Cllr Kathleen Kelleher (FF) and supported by a majority of councillors present at the meeting.

"This rezoning motion represents the worst kind of developer-led planning" says de Burca. "The land is owned by Zapi and had been zoned by the council's planners for integrated employment and community services, including a primary school facility. However, Zapi had been in discussions with local Greystones councillors about zoning the land for a massive out-of-town shopping centre and for residential development. This proposal was sprung on councillors like me for the first time at Monday's meeting and despite the total opposition of the planners, a majority of councillors voted to support it".

De Burca points out that the proposed retail development will be approximately one third of the size of Dundrum Shopping Centre which is the biggest of its kind in Europe, and half of the size of the proposed retail development on the Bray Golf Club lands. "The planners pointed out that the location of this massive shopping centre is in conflict with national and county policy on retail development" she says. It will be more than 1.8 miles form the core retail area of Greystones and will certainly destroy the existing retail base of the town".

The Green councillor also pointed out that the proposed 210 large residential units proposed were surplus to requirement and would push the population of Greystones up by a further 600 people approximately. "The Draft Greystones Local Area Plan told us that there are over 100 acresof undeveloped existing zoned lands in Greystones and that to zone more would be to push the population levels up over the 2010 target of 21,000" says de Burca. "Yet councillors chose to ignore this advice and to give Zapi lucrative residential development on their lands in addition to a massive retail development".

According to de Burca the rezoning motion also included a site reserved for a recycling centre,a Garda station and a turn-key Enterprise centre. "This is a very high price to lay for these community facilities" says de Burca. "And we have been warned by the planners that once the rezoning has been adopted by the counicllors, the developers may not deliver on the promised infrastructure and that there may be little the council can do to oblige them to deliver".

The amendments to the Draft Greystones Local Area Plan are going out on display towards the end of September for a four week period. Cllr de Burca is encouraging members of the public to go and view the amendments and to make submissions to Wicklow County Council on them.


For further information please contact Cllr Deirdre de Burca on 086 8061450

tomflynn

Why was a rezoning of such a scale allowed to proceed without putting out the plan to further consultation....will there be request for submissions now for the amendments to the plan or is it adopted in all finality now??

Sounds like our local councillors have their own ideas as there was no local knowledge about a possible shopping centre of this scale.

Acting beyond their station:( .

tomflynn

I am not actuaally overly concerned by 250 more houses. Thats a relatively small estate given the scale of development already undertaken in Charlesland. Such a rezoning in exchange for the development of the 'community facilities' (community centre, enterprise centre, garda station and recycling centre) would have been a relative fair agreement.

However a shopping centre bigger than the original 'The Square' shopping centre in Tallaght or the original Blanchardstown Shopping Centre will generate huge volumes of traffic into the south end of Greystones. Never mind the additional retail warehousing.
Such large scale development will undoubtedly be an attraction to shoppers from north Wexford and across south and east Co. Wicklow. There is nothing of this scale in Enniscorthy, Gorey, Arklow or Wicklow Town. The traffic movements will be exponential. Looks like the councillors negotiations yielded a bum deal overall considering the costs that will be imposed.
The community facilities whilst entirely welcome and sought for a number of years are to being achieved at a huge cost...in my opinion.

Marcais

Fiachra2 wrote:

Below is Press release on events at WCC yesterday.


Councillor's proposal for massive out- of -town shopping centre at Charlesland is bad planning says de Burca

Green Party councillor, Deirdre de Burca has criticised a proposal by Greystones councillors to rezone a large site at Charlesland for a massive out of town shopping centre of 20,000 sq metres, retail warehousing of 16,000 sq metres and retail and car showrooms. The proposal also included 210 residential units with floor areas of up to 220sq metres. The rezoning motion was proposed by Cllr George Jones (FG), seconded by Cllr Kathleen Kelleher (FF) and supported by a majority of councillors present at the meeting.

"This rezoning motion represents the worst kind of developer-led planning" says de Burca. "The land is owned by Zapi and had been zoned by the council's planners for integrated employment and community services, including a primary school facility. However, Zapi had been in discussions with local Greystones councillors about zoning the land for a massive out-of-town shopping centre and for residential development. This proposal was sprung on councillors like me for the first time at Monday's meeting and despite the total opposition of the planners, a majority of councillors voted to support it".

De Burca points out that the proposed retail development will be approximately one third of the size of Dundrum Shopping Centre which is the biggest of its kind in Europe, and half of the size of the proposed retail development on the Bray Golf Club lands. "The planners pointed out that the location of this massive shopping centre is in conflict with national and county policy on retail development" she says. It will be more than 1.8 miles form the core retail area of Greystones and will certainly destroy the existing retail base of the town".

The Green councillor also pointed out that the proposed 210 large residential units proposed were surplus to requirement and would push the population of Greystones up by a further 600 people approximately. "The Draft Greystones Local Area Plan told us that there are over 100 acresof undeveloped existing zoned lands in Greystones and that to zone more would be to push the population levels up over the 2010 target of 21,000" says de Burca. "Yet councillors chose to ignore this advice and to give Zapi lucrative residential development on their lands in addition to a massive retail development".

According to de Burca the rezoning motion also included a site reserved for a recycling centre,a Garda station and a turn-key Enterprise centre. "This is a very high price to lay for these community facilities" says de Burca. "And we have been warned by the planners that once the rezoning has been adopted by the counicllors, the developers may not deliver on the promised infrastructure and that there may be little the council can do to oblige them to deliver".

The amendments to the Draft Greystones Local Area Plan are going out on display towards the end of September for a four week period. Cllr de Burca is encouraging members of the public to go and view the amendments and to make submissions to Wicklow County Council on them.


For further information please contact Cllr Deirdre de Burca on 086 8061450

Mitchell, Jones and Kelleher have again stabbed us in the back, the next response will be at the ballot box. I'm not affiliated to any party, but I will be voting Green party next election and I would urge everybody to disregard party allegiances and give these self absorbed sickening individuals the boot.

Don't be roped in by little "favours" like contacting Dublin Bus and promising us bus service!!! We are being thoroughly shafted.

Fiachra2

tomflynn wrote:

I am not actuaally overly concerned by 250 more houses. Thats a relatively small estate given the scale of development already undertaken in Charlesland. Such a rezoning in exchange for the development of the 'community facilities' (community centre, enterprise centre, garda station and recycling centre) would have been a relative fair agreement.

The good news is that this is not a done deal yet. The revised plan goes on public display in a few weeks and has to be voted on again then. My advice would be to get a lot of written submissions and more importantly, put pressure on the Councillors by way of public meetings. The greystones councillors who supported this acted against the advice of the professional planners and against some fundamental principles of the Town and County plans and national policy. They were not acting on behalf of the community. This raises a question. On whose behalf were they acting? It is on this question that I think you should focus your attentions!

With regard to the conmmunity facilities being offered we should remeber as follows: An Enterprise centre is the responsibility on the IDA who own a huge tract of land nearby. If one is needed then why is the IDA not building it? A Garda station is the responsibilty of central government (in any case the Garda aparently dont want it!) The community should not have to make sacrifices in order to provide either of these facilities. The Community Centre is definitely worthwhile but WCC has had ample means at its disposal to finance this development but has stubbornly refused to do so for 15 years.

In any case if this deal is for the benifit of the community, surely the community should have been given an opportunity to assess the "deal". IE is a community center fair exchange for 200+ houses and a shopping centre? Should we get more? Are there other facuilities we need first?

With regard to the shopping centre I would doubt if it will ever be built. The intention is probably to establish the principle of building a large monolitic structure in the are. This can in due course be changed to an apartment block (with the help of George and the boys)

What is most important from your community's point of view is that if this gets the go ahead then you have established a dangerous principle. It will open the floodgates and allow all the green areas around you to be changed to residential over time.

GAN

Fiachra you are absolutely right, I will eat my hat if this shopping centre is ever built. The Dundrum Town Centre is being extended significantly and there are large retail schemes planned for Cherrywood and the Bray Golf Club lands, so where exactly would the shoppers and tenants come from? I know the population of Greystones is expanding but it's not expanding that much!

Plus as we all know, Meridian Point has not exactly been a great success -- apart from the hairdressers none of the shops ever seem to be busy and one of the restaurants has alread closed down. I also reckon that this is just a way of introducing more residential development by the back door and I would echo Fiachra's comments and encourage everyone to made represenatations to the council and the councillors.

Re a public meeting, that's a great idea, do you think Deirdre de Burca and Tom Fortune would get involved in organising one?

Coolhand

Is this the land where the old barn is. I dont get how they will fit all that there. It will look terrible beside the estate. I dont mind more houses\apartments but not a shopping centre. I dont back out onto that area but how terrible would it be if they do it and you do.

Coolhand

Is this the land where the barn is. How can they fit all that there. It will look terrible. Very ugly for the people who back out onto that.

loyatemu

the land around the old barn was where the "commercial park" (ie warehousing type stuff) was supposed to be built - someone posted up the original drawings of that scheme here a while back.

There's also the land on the other side of the road, between Jackie Skellys and the Fairways, and Zapi may also own the land to the west of Skellys (where the blocked up 1970s houses are). Not sure where exactly they're proposing the shopping centre be sited, but its not going to happen anytime soon, if ever.

future_plans

Here are the proposed plans for Charlesland GC. Note there are a lot of Green fields in this....just pretend there are lots of houses and apartments on the Green areas and that the North beach doesn't exist...then you get a true feeling for Greystones: 2015

Sparks115

ITS FLIPPIN HUGE!!!! and there is another Marina!!! are we all to become sailors in our spare time!! I get it, maybe we need all these Marinas cause there will be so many people living in Greystones that the roads will be choc a bloc so will will all need boats to get to work!!!:eek:

Have to say the local Councillers need a kick up their arses and a bit of a talking to.;) the whole place has gone mad I tell ya mad!!! they will be building houses and shops on the flippin water around Greystones next and in the skys over our heads if they got a chance. arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

anyone got any cheaps boats for sale???

gstonesmx5

that place would look great some where else. the traffic that would cause until the new road goes north bound would be madness. i dont think houses will never be built there but if they can be held off for as long as we can alll the better.

the marina would be great for people who can use a boat to get to work (greystones-docks 1hr weather dependant). would they not think of us who cant use the water and put in a helipad and runway as i work beside casemont arodrome. what about a dart station to take the preasure off the one in town and traffic off the roads at peak times and an extention form dublin bus to cover charlesland.

pants pants pants