Paying them off

Benglian

It is 1/2 or 2/4 PLO.

OOP you have been potting your flopped nuts. (oooeeerrrr missus)
You keep getting called.
On the river one of the obvious draws comes in.
You check and the villain bets 50-75 into a 300 pot.
Do you call?

I seem to call 'most' of the time here and they are nearly never bluffing.
Is this a serious leak in my game? Should I be saving myself these last bets?
What sort of bet size is it 'OK' to call 'just in case' he was on the flush draw and not that straight that just came in....?

BrokenArrows

that all depends on how you played the how he played the hand.

You cant just say if the villan bets 75 into a 300 pot on the river with a possible flush on the board should i call.

The question is did you think he had a flush draw thoughout the hand or did the river card just scare you. and by checking the river you are almost telling the villan that you are scared of the flush and for him to bet.

by checking here you have no idea what he has. Make a bet on the river and if he comes over the top let it go.

DocO

If you find yourself constantly calling the 75€ bets on the river, why not bet 75 urself, and if re-raised ull have ur answer (obviously depending on how the hand read out) but the majority of the time if he missed he folds, alot easier being the aggressor

fuzzbox

DocO wrote:

If you find yourself constantly calling the 75€ bets on the river, why not bet 75 urself, and if re-raised ull have ur answer (obviously depending on how the hand read out) but the majority of the time if he missed he folds, alot easier being the aggressor

Because: its rather unlikely that villains CALL with a bluff.

DocO

His problem was that he was checkin when a danger card came on the river, and hence handing over the control of the hand not knowing should he call the suspicious value bet.
obviously they wont call if they miss, but what this bet does do is gives you information.
He asked was there another way to deal with constantly paying off the river bet and this is one (depending on how obvious it is that he is on the flushdraw etc)

It was never insinuated that they would call if they were bluffing

fuzzbox

DocO
Please tell me how you employ this strategy to SAVE money on the river.

?????

Norwich Fan Rob

doc, if u bet 75 on the river and he re raises then u fold, this costs u 75.
if u check, and comtemplate calling 75, this also costs u 75, but sometimes u have induced a bluff.
the leading for 75 is only good if u are sure villian will move all in if u check, and u are not willing to call this and yet he will fold if u bet again. (even then i dont really like it).

DocO

Point taken guys, and i agree with it, but i was just tryin to look at a diff way to approach the OP's question. the example i see him presenting is if there is an obvious flushdraw on, and the river brings a scare str8 card - by checking you allow the missed flush to possibly put you off the hand (bluffing as u say rob). I was trying to find a way to keep the control of the hand to the OP, if he checks he has to make a hard call (which was the point of his original thread, how can he stop making these calls and invariably pay him off).

All depends on how the hand played out aswell, but when a scare card comes, i feel check calling is a decision that depens on reads and what you placed the player on. If you are convinced he is on a flush draw, then check folding is def ok if flush hits (im not saying to bet the 75 here, again depends on the situation)
hopefully this makes it a little clearer - confusing myself now!!

fuzzbox

DocO, if you make a bet, that will never get called by a worse hand (as is quite true in this situation), then you are bluffing.

But your hand is better than a bluff ... and that means that if your opponent was to bluff, and you called, that you would win money from him.

If you bet, and he calls/raises, then you are beat, and yet the fact that you bet, makes him folds those hands that he would bluff with.

Thus, betting is -EV.

DocO

ok, point taken, tanx

Rnger

These general questions often never have an answer. Does your opponent call pot sized bets with draws often?

I often make bluffs like these. You have to pick the right opponent to try it on though, somebody who thinks quite highly of their ability. They see straight through your 'obvious' small value bet and fold like the savvy player they are. I often call these bets but its entirely dependant on my opponent