Satanism in the Garden county

Demetrius

There was an interesting piece on the Matt Cooper show yesterday evening. A representative of the DSPCA (he may have been of the ISPCA) was describing how a mutilated dog was found near an "altar" in the Wicklow mountains after it had been seemingly sacrificed in some ceremoney. The ISPCA representative went on to say that there were a number of crosses in the immediate vicinity of where the animal was found, suggesting that a Satanic ritual had been performed there.

Where is the harm if the animal was killed humanely?

Archeron

The harm is that it is not up to the Joe Soap on the street to decide when an animal should live or die, whatever their reasoning behind it.

chamlis

Wait, aren't Satanists just hedonists? I mean, they don't actually worship the devil and perform sacrifices, they just party and have lots of sex.
Luciferians are the devil-worshippers.

Probably bored f***ed up kids who don't even know how to spell "depressed". No animals should ever be harmed deliberately. I don't agree with them, but there ARE some legitimate religious reasons for sacrifice.
This is not one of them. Cnuts.

Demetrius

Even if the animal was eaten afterwards?

Chuchu

Which it wasn't... why not post back here in the event of your pet's throat being slit, left to bleed to death and and it's scull crushed for good measure and we'll see how you feel. Muppet.

Ciaran500

chamlis wrote:

but there ARE some legitimate religious reasons for sacrifice.

Legitimate religious resons?

Bit of an oxymoron, no?

NeMiSiS

I eat the hearts of my enemies to attain their strength and power.. my enemies are mostly alcohol related products.
TK

Ruu_Old

Chuchu wrote:

Which it wasn't... why not post back here in the event of your pet's throat being slit, left to bleed to death and and it's scull crushed for good measure and we'll see how you feel. Muppet.

Banned for personal abuse, it won't be tolerated around here. Have a nice day.

Talliesin

Demetrius wrote:

Where is the harm if the animal was killed humanely?

I'm betting it wasn't.

Archeron wrote:

The harm is that it is not up to the Joe Soap on the street to decide when an animal should live or die, whatever their reasoning behind it.

As a meat-eater and leather-wearer I have to disagree.

chamlis wrote:

Wait, aren't Satanists just hedonists? I mean, they don't actually worship the devil and perform sacrifices, they just party and have lots of sex.
Luciferians are the devil-worshippers.

Semantics. I can think of about 5 very different definitions of "Satanists" all of which are attested both inside and outside of the group in question.

chamlis wrote:

Probably bored f***ed up kids who don't even know how to spell "depressed". No animals should ever be harmed deliberately. I don't agree with them, but there ARE some legitimate religious reasons for sacrifice.
This is not one of them. Cnuts.

Agreed. Given that the animal was neither destroyed by fire after the killing nor eaten I'd bet good money whoever did this didn't even know how to conduct a sacrifice properly.

Not only is the killing itself ethically different to the likes of Voodoo where the sacrifice ends up on the table, but I doubt they even managed to raise much power, or to make any use of what power they did raise.

SpAcEd OuT

Chuchu wrote:

Which it wasn't... why not post back here in the event of your pet's throat being slit, left to bleed to death and and it's scull crushed for good measure and we'll see how you feel. Muppet.

QFT

Dragan

Demetrius wrote:

suggesting that a Satanic ritual had been performed there.

While i hate to hurt people Hollywood inspired feelings here animal Sacrifice has NOTHING to do with Satanism, not true Satanism anyway. Satanists are not expected to, do not see the point, and frown upon animal sacrifice.

Mexicola

I just dont understand what goes on in these minds of these people. To be a fly on the wall, armed with a sniper rifle so I could take those m*therf*ckers kneecaps out and take a large rock to their f*cking heads. B@stards.

I've heard some horrendous stories over the years - cats being thrown of high buildings, dogs thrown into bonfires, frogs being nailed to wooden boards and battered, the list goes on. I even once visited the ISPCA centre near Athlone - it was part of a charity bike run and we were allowed to go around all the facilities. As I walked by the surgery, a vet was tending to a dog who was unconcious. I asked him what happened and he told me the dog had been stabbed! Like who the f*ck stabs a dog. :mad:

---

Ah Ruu.... take it easy on the lad!

Shabadu

Talliesin wrote:

Archeron wrote:

The harm is that it is not up to the Joe Soap on the street to decide when an animal should live or die, whatever their reasoning behind it.

As a meat-eater and leather-wearer I have to disagree.

Actually, the average Joe Soap has absolutely no say in how or when animals are slaughtered for consumption. It's regulated and strictly enforced. You can't say 'I eat meat, therfore I have the right to kill this pheasant', you have to wait for the correct season and have a hunting license and a gun license first. Joe Soap has no right to go around killing animals on a whim.

Dragan

chamlis wrote:

Wait, aren't Satanists just hedonists?

Eh....no....for a Satanist, their god is her or his own person. They realise that they in fact, in control of there lives, and as such, are omnipotent to themselves.

Who knew?

Sgt. Politeness

Talliesin wrote:

Not only is the killing itself ethically different to the likes of Voodoo where the sacrifice ends up on the table, but I doubt they even managed to raise much power, or to make any use of what power they did raise.

When im feeling not so fresh and short of power, i have been known to put a bullet into a kitten or 2. As all right thinking individuals know, sacrifices are great for recharging the old batteries.
Then, i do a rain dance, and worship a few rocks.

Archeron

Shabadu wrote:

Actually, the average Joe Soap has absolutely no say in how or when animals are slaughtered for consumption. It's regulated and strictly enforced. You can't say 'I eat meat, therfore I have the right to kill this pheasant', you have to wait for the correct season and have a hunting license and a gun license first. Joe Soap has no right to go around killing animals on a whim.

thank you, you've put that more eloquently than I could have.

Terry

animals should only be killed if they are going to be eaten.

Dragan

julep wrote:

animals should only be killed if they are going to be eaten.

Or self defence! Always a good reason!!!!

monkeyfudge

julep wrote:

animals should only be killed if they are going to be eaten.

So the vet ate my poor sick bunny after it was put down? That's horrible!

Tar.Aldarion

Must...not...get...banned...for...abuse....

Ok, that was hard to overcome.
Anyway, I'm not a fan of these people nor this story.
My anger about such issues will get me arrested one day...

Talliesin

Shabadu wrote:

Actually, the average Joe Soap has absolutely no say in how or when animals are slaughtered for consumption. It's regulated and strictly enforced. You can't say 'I eat meat, therfore I have the right to kill this pheasant', you have to wait for the correct season and have a hunting license and a gun license first. Joe Soap has no right to go around killing animals on a whim.

True, and rightly so, though my deciding to buy steak last night had a very real and direct effect on the number of cows killed this year.

Dragan wrote:

Eh....no....for a Satanist, their god is her or his own person. They realise that they in fact, in control of there lives, and as such, are omnipotent to themselves.

Who knew?

Certainly true of Church of Satan, but not every person who identifies as "Satanist".

Dragan

Talliesin wrote:

Certainly true of Church of Satan, but not every person who identifies as "Satanist".

Actually thats, true. I should have made that distinction myself, so sorry to anyone offended!!!

Tar.Aldarion

If somebody identifies as something, it doesn't make them one per se. This probably doesn't apply in this case though.

Thread on Satanism for people that are interested, man, boardtracker is bad for finding things!
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054923316

Dyr

Lol at "true satanism" how can makey uppy stuff be true and untrue?

Anyway, if a dog was mutilated/killed a crime was commited so all the argument's with regards that can fall into if its okay or not to break the law. Some people seem to think it is I guess

Hopefully the full weight of the law will be brought to bear on the muppets responsible..which would be a slap on the wrist knowing irelands record on these matters. better yet hopefully they'll be bate to **** by a mob of superstitious villagers, torch wielding vigilantes ftw

Talliesin

Sgt. Politeness wrote:

When im feeling not so fresh and short of power, i have been known to put a bullet into a kitten or 2. As all right thinking individuals know, sacrifices are great for recharging the old batteries.
Then, i do a rain dance, and worship a few rocks.

Why don't you learn enough about what you're satirising it that your satire will make the target seem stupid, rather than you?

Demetrius

Bambi wrote:

Lol at "true satanism" how can makey uppy stuff be true and untrue?

Anyway, if a dog was mutilated/killed a crime was commited so all the argument's with regards that can fall into if its okay or not to break the law. Some people seem to think it is I guess

In this case the dog seems to have been mutilated alright, and yet animals have been sacrificed in ceremonies for thousands of years. Some before me have pointed out that in some religions the animal is eaten after the ceremony.

Why do some people find this repulsive? Is it the ceremonial aspect? I know I'm moving away from the topic, but many religions have ceremonies regarding the slaughter of animals for food.

Darragh29

I posted a thread on this site a few months ago after I came across a scene up in the Hell Fire Club in the Dublin Mountains one morning similar to the one described by the OP, and everyone on here laughed at me! Upstairs in one of the rooms, there were candles lighting in glass jamjars (obviously left there from whatever had been going on before), a pentagram drawn in white chalk on the floor and what appeared to be an upside down wooden cross lying in a corner the room, and clothes line rope that looked like it had been used to tie something or someone up, which had then been cut with a sissors or a knofe, lying around the room. I'd heard rumours for years that there was a satanic coven using the Hell Fire Club for rituals, but was surprised to see evidence of it one morning when I went up there for a walk with some friends.

Have a look at my op, hope this is not off-topic...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=260244&page=3&highlight=hell+fire+club

Archeron

Demetrius wrote:

In this case the dog seems to have been mutilated alright, and yet animals have been sacrificed in ceremonies for thousands of years. Some before me have pointed out that in some religions the animal is eaten after the ceremony.

Why do some people find this repulsive? Is it the ceremonial aspect? I know I'm moving away from the topic, but many religions have ceremonies regarding the slaughter of animals for food.

I would imagine its because a lot of people have in built ideas as to the type of person it is that would do this in the Dublin mountains. Be they right or wrong in that assumption, i reckon the vast majority would picture stupid teenagers trying to rebel in some by taking part in something like this and slaughtering animals to make it more "real" man.
The idea of these type of people killing innocent animals is abhorrent. Particularly so when you hear that the animal died a nasty death.

Dragan

Archeron wrote:

The idea of these type of people killing innocent animals is abhorrent. Particularly so when you hear that the animal died a nasty death.

Indeed, somebody doing such a thing for pointless kicks I find to be rather offensive. Don't get me wrong, I love to eat meat, and I have hunted animals in the past ( with a blade though, not a gun, I'm a fair terms kind of guy ) but I also have a lot of respect for animals.

Sometimes I confuse myself.

magpie

I'd bet good money whoever did this didn't even know how to conduct a sacrifice properly.

Given that this kind of stuff went out of everyday use over 1000 years ago I'd be incllined to think there are very few people who do know. Also given that, unlike Christianity, 'pagan' religions were not notable for their written traditions, the only instructional material you're likely to find won't date back much further than about 1600, and the vast majority would be from the late 19th / early 20th when interest in this stuff started to spring up again in earnest. As such, anything that you find in writing would be, in my opinion, pretty much hocum and conjecture.

But hey, whatever gets you through the night.

Talliesin

magpie wrote:

Given that this kind of stuff went out of everyday use over 1000 years ago I'd be incllined to think there are very few people who do know.

What on earth are you talking about?
Voodoo has animal sacrifice and it's only a couple of centuries old.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Hellm0

Talliesin wrote:

Why don't you learn enough about what you're satirising it that your satire will make the target seem stupid, rather than you?

You have to admit though it was pretty funny:P

magpie

Voodoo has animal sacrifice and it's only a couple of centuries old.

I didn't realise that this was the work of Baron Samedi - my mistake.

I thought it was more likely to be the kind of sub- Aleister Crowley hogwash peddled in New Age shops and digested by nerdy goth teenagers. Ph33r my hexx etc.

Hobbes

Dragan wrote:

Eh....no....for a Satanist, their god is her or his own person. They realise that they in fact, in control of there lives, and as such, are omnipotent to themselves.

Who knew?

So if I run a satanist over its not my faults?

biko

Cute kittens and duckling must not be harmed. Only ugly animals can be killed/religiously sacrificed, such as oxen and rams. And missionaries:

Before Christianity the Swedish people celebrated "midvinterblot" at winter solstice. It simply means "mid-winter-blood", and featured both animal and human sacrifice. This tradition took place at certain cult places, and basically every old Swedish church is built on such a place. The pagan tradition was finally abandoned around 1200 AD, due to the missionaries persistence. (Of course they were sacrificed too, by the Vikings, in the beginning.)

Calibos

Talliesin wrote:

........Not only is the killing itself ethically different to the likes of Voodoo where the sacrifice ends up on the table, but I doubt they even managed to raise much power, or to make any use of what power they did raise.

I was beginning to smile at the clever sarcasm until I noticed the forums modded by the poster and then I stopped smiling because I realised the bolded text wasn't sarcasm. No disrespect Taliesin but.......:rolleyes:

Talliesin

magpie wrote:

I didn't realise that this was the work of Baron Samedi - my mistake.

It clearly wasn't, since it had absolutely no similarity to a Voodoo sacrifice in terms of the species of animal, how it was killed or what was done afterwards. This was part of my original point.

magpie wrote:

I thought it was more likely to be the kind of sub- Aleister Crowley hogwash peddled in New Age shops and digested by nerdy goth teenagers. Ph33r my hexx etc.

As a rule you won't find any form of sacrifice in any of that at all.

The three biggest influences on the sort of magic most popular with teenagers would be Crowley, Wicca, and some strands of the New Age Movement.

Crowley wrote a bit on sacrifice, though mostly allegorical. I seem to recall he did make use of holocaust (that is killing an animal before burning the remains), but I can't think of much along those lines in his more popular works, so to get into his work enough to even start on that sort of work you'd expect people to haven't gotten into it enough to realise that the holocuast itself is of importance, and to not leave a bloody great big altar lying around for anyone to find.

Wicca doesn't make any use of animal sacrifice. In the public works of Gardner you'll come across a statement to the effect of "animal sacrifice works, but it doesn't work well with our way of doing it, and we think our way works better" and that's the only mention of it.

The New Age lot tend towards vegetarianism and a strong concern for animal welfare.

So. It's not CM, it's not Wicca, it's not New Age-ism, it's not any of the more organised forms of Satanism like CoS. The sacrifice isn't a good sacrifice (I doubt it was even their dog), it wasn't disposed of well, and it was just left lying there (leaving a gris gris or something at a particular spot is one thing, just being too half-assed to clean-up another). We're back to the obvious hypothesis of bored kids with psychological problems.

magpie

Well, you know your stuff, I've got to give you that!

Dragan

Hobbes wrote:

So if I run a satanist over its not my faults?

Yeah, but this is Ireland so you still might get done for Deicide!!!

Sizzler

What are the govt doing to make sure scumbag acts like this arent taking place

I know this was a pretty extreme act but it would appear to me that even the 'lesser' crimes against animals arent punished heavily enough.

Personal opionion would be that such crimes should be custodial sentances instead of slap on the wrist fines.

I wonder if a reward of decent lids was put up would the sick cnts that did this be shopped?