What amp?

gizmo

Gentlemen,

My 21st is coming up in the next few weeks and the parents have agreed to fund a new amp purchase. Now they've also said I can give them some money towards it also so I'm looking at a total of between €800-€1000 to spend.

Now, what am I looking for....

I had initally really wanted something with plenty of flexibilty and had my heart set on a second hand Line 6 Vetta combo. Unfortunately since they seem to be quite hard to come by at a decent price in this country (unlike the US it seems) I shelved those plans and decided on a Flextone III XL combo. However I recently got a Toneport UX2 (with the Metal Shop plugin giving me all the metal heads of the HD147) and although I'm really enjoying it its clear that the thing needs ALOT of tweaking to get a good sound of, hence I've started to have second thoughts about the whole thing. Thoughts?

First of all tone requirements wise, well since I've only been playing a few years I'm still in my covers phase (I guess you could call it that) and wanted something that I could use in a band to play such material, hence I was looking at Line 6.

Musical tastes wise, well since I've started playing my tastes have gotten progressivly heavier but at the same time a wee bit more diverse. Favourite bands would be Alter Bridge, Children Of Bodom, Nevermore, Opeth, Anthrax, In Flames, Arch Enemy, Shadows Fall, Lamb Of God, Trivium, Metallica, Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, Stevie Ray Vaughan. I guess you could narrow that down to metal with some blues and modern hard rock thrown in.

That said, alot of bands I've started getting into use KRANKs so then I thought about trying to get my hands on a second hand Revolution combo but so far, no luck...rather unsurprisingly over here again unfortunately.

One other thing that is rather important is my inability to buy a stack/half stack. Basically since I'm in college space is definitly at a premium so I've been mainly concentrating on combo amps or perhaps a head with a 2x12 cab.

I've also noticed two or three ENGL Fireball amps on adverts. I do believe I've read rather good things about them and since they fall into my price range I could probably get one of those and then look for a 2x12 cab for it to sit on. Would this be a good idea at all?

I guess I'm torn between wanting to get a really flexible amp like a Line 6 or something that sounds great but is less than flexible.

Anyway any help/opinions/advice would be greatly appreciated, ta.

feylya

I think a nice ENGL combo should be right up your street along with a distortion pedal in case you want even more gain.

gizmo

You mean the Fireball head and 2x12 cab?

Might I really need a disto pedal on top of it?

Any other amps that could handle those kind of low end Krank/Mesa tones and fall into that price catagory even second hand?

Karl Hungus

gizmo wrote:

You mean the Fireball head and 2x12 cab?

Might I really need a disto pedal on top of it?

No, he means a combo like this, which is the amp and speaker altogether, hence the term combo. I wouldn't really think you'd need a pedal with that, but that really depends on how heavy you'd want to go.

If you were to get a Fireball, there's no way in hell you'd need any extra distortion. It's incredibly high gain.

Now, I use the Fireball, and honestly, it's the best amp I've ever laid my hands on. That includes the likes of Mesa Rectifiers, Mark IV, Peavy 5150, it crushes them for Metal tones, and has a nice clean channel too. Cannot recommend this amp enough if you're into metal, especially if you like lower tunings, as I play 7 Strings a lot and there's and incredibly tight low end response.

But it's not very versatile. It's only a 2 channel amp, so while you can get a decent range of tones, don't expect to be able to switch between them at ease. As it is, I find the amp perfect, because I only ever use clean and distortion. It's easy to get a nice lower gain rock tone, or a crunchy blues tone, but don't really expect to be able to switch around much, there's only 1 set of EQ controls.

Give a good think about what you want. The Fireball's an amazing amp, but it's not for everyone. If you want some more sounds that you can access easily without re-tweaking it, then you might want to look elsewhere.

gizmo

Yea I guess thats what I'm torn over, do I want a kickass metal tone or do I want a very good metal tone but the ability to get other tones and switch with ease.

I noticed this though which may put a spanner in the works regarding the Fireball, €600 for the 2x12 cab.

Btw, am I missing something or is this ridiclously cheap for the Line 6 Flextone III XL. It works out at nearly €200 less than Thomann even when all shipping and VAT charges are taken into account?

Karl Hungus

gizmo wrote:

Yea I guess thats what I'm torn over, do I want a kickass metal tone or do I want a very good metal tone but the ability to get other tones and switch with ease.

I noticed this though which may put a spanner in the works regarding the Fireball, €600 for the 2x12 cab.

Btw, am I missing something or is this ridiclously cheap for the Line 6 Flextone III XL. It works out at nearly €200 less than Thomann even when all shipping and VAT charges are taken into account?

Well for one, Thomann seem to be really expensive when it comes to Line 6 gear, GAK are definetly have the better price.

For the Fireball, you could get a cheap cab, but I can't vouch for how good that'll sound. The Thunder 50 has 3 channels I believe, and the Screamer 50 has 4 channels, so I'd say those might be a little more along the lines of what you might be looking for in ways of versatility. The fact that they're combos means you wouldn't have to worry about getting another speaker cabinet, and they're both within your price range. The only thing is that you might need a pedal to give the Screamer a bit of a boost, as it's not all that high gain.

gizmo

Well I saw this Framus 2x12 cab on Thomann which could do the trick alright. Bit annoying when the guy on adverts sold his 4x12 Engl for €450 but sure what can you do. Any idea how the Framus would shape up under the Fireball?

Hrm, I'll have a look around for some reviews on the Thunder and Screamer, to be honest the only reason I even considered the Fireball was becuase of its freakishly low price and the fact the sound clips I had heard of it were fantastic.

Karl Hungus

The Framus cab is ridiculously good value, especially considering it has Celestion Vintage 30 speakers. Well recommended.

Although I would suggest you try out any amp you're considering buying first. Clips are one thing, but nothing compares to actually testing something yourself.

gizmo

Yep, noticed the V30's in it alright. Well at least my choices have been reduced. Its down to either* a new Flextone III XL for €660 or the Fireball with the 2x12 cab for €1000 too. Decisions.

Yep, I'll be back down in Dublin this weekend so I'll stick my head into some of the shops in town and hope they have some lying around.

* or *maybe* a Vetta Combo for €1000, saw one last year in Musician in Dublin for that anyway...

Karl Hungus

Personally, I thought the Flextone III was rubbish when I tried it out, but I didn't really have much time with it tbh.

Instrumental stock Engl, so you can try there. Musician Inc stock the Line6 gear.

gizmo

Really? I always thought the amp sims themselves on the Flextone were the same as those found on the PodXT and Vetta? I know the selection isn't as wide as with the extra features but with the Metal Shop Pack I assumed I'd be alright for my tastes.

I'll check'em out anyway, thanks for all the advice man, much obliged.

Karl Hungus

Well, like I said, I didn't have much time with it, and I never tried this Metal Shop pack either, so it could very well be amazing.

david

I've used lots of modellers and none of them get near as good of a metal/blues/classic rock/clean tone as my ENGL thunder combo. And yeah it has clean/crunch/lead channels. Very very versatile for minimal controls

gizmo

Well I'm not sure I'd call it amazing just yet, I need more time to play with it. I'm just used to plugging into my Cube 30 and playing, having all those controls can take some getting used to.

Oh, so how does the Thunder compare to the Fireball in the high gain stakes?

Ravelleman

I have a Thunder combo. You can actually get some high gain stuff out of it, though I doubt they're anything like the Fireball. The cleans are really very nice though. It sounds great when accompanied by a nice boutique OD or boost pedal.

Avoid Krank like the plague.

david

Rock Solid Amps or some site has soundclips of all engls afaik, google it. It can do pure metal stuff, not quite as high gain as a fireball but still pretty high, I stick an EQ in the loop to get death/black metal kinda tones every now and again.

Rustar

Haven't heard the Engls myself, but they seem to have tons of fans here...probably can't go wrong.

I did find this Line 6 Spider however, which even with a Fat VAT would be in your range.....150w with Celestion speakers and 2 12's.

Unfortunately, couldn't find any Mesa Boogie combos.

Karl Hungus

Rustar wrote:

Haven't heard the Engls myself, but they seem to have tons of fans here...probably can't go wrong.

I did find this Line 6 Spider however, which even with a Fat VAT would be in your range.....150w with Celestion speakers and 2 12's.

Unfortunately, couldn't find any Mesa Boogie combos.

Yep, Engl definetly have a few fanatics round these parts, and for good reason, they rock.

I wouldn't bother importing an amp of that price from the states though. You'd have to factor in a lot of shipping, customs, and a voltage transformer once you got it.

gizmo

Plus its a Spider.

€660 inc Vat and Delivery for that Flextone III XL is a steal though, especially since they retail for €860 on Thomann and €845 in Musican Inc.

The Fireballs complete lack of versitility is whats worrying me however, while I know I could get some fantastic high gain tones out of it if I turned around and wanted some easy Satriani, bluesy SRV or classic ACDC I have a feeling I'd be **** out of luck.

Karl Hungus

gizmo wrote:

Plus its a Spider.

€660 inc Vat and Delivery for that Flextone III XL is a steal though, especially since they retail for €860 on Thomann and €845 in Musican Inc.

The Fireballs complete lack of versitility is whats worrying me however, while I know I could get some fantastic high gain tones out of it if I turned around and wanted some easy Satriani, bluesy SRV or classic ACDC I have a feeling I'd be **** out of luck.

No, you can get some decent low gain tones from it, it's just that with a shared EQ and gain control for 2 channels, you'd have to either switch to the clean channel and turn up the gain really high, or switch to the distortion channel and turn down the gain. Depending on whether or not you want to have a low gain and high gain sound switchable, it mightn't work too well.

Voodu Child

It sounds like a good overdrive pedal, a clean booster (mxr micro-amp etc), and a good eq pedal wouldnt go astray with the fireball.

Wouldnt bother with any line6 amp tbh.

Karl Hungus

Here, have a listen to this which shows what the Fireball is capable of in lower gain situations. It's versatile enough, it just mightn't be all that functional if you want a variety of sounds you can switch to.

Karl Hungus

Oh, and if you're skeptical about what the Thunder is capable of, have a listen to this.

gizmo

Oh loved the Fireball clip...really . The Thunder was cool too but the one with the For The Love Of God cover was more impressive imo, showed that theres some versitility there. I guess I'll just wait and see what they all sound like at the weekend...

Quattroste

Karl Hungus wrote:

Oh, and if you're skeptical about what the Thunder is capable of, have a listen to this.

:eek: That poor amp!

That clip alone has put me off ENGL forever. Everyone to their own taste though I suppose.

Karl Hungus

gizmo wrote:

Oh loved the Fireball clip...really . The Thunder was cool too but the one with the For The Love Of God cover was more impressive imo, showed that theres some versitility there. I guess I'll just wait and see what they all sound like at the weekend...

Good man. You really do have to trust your ears, so it's best to try something for yourself.

Quattroste wrote:

That clip alone has put me off ENGL forever.

What? Why!?

Quattroste

I'm old. That's waaaaaaaay to heavy for me dude.

!_Brian_!

the fireball looks very promising actully. might be worth looking into investing. My only worry tho would be lack of power. How would a 60 watt head fair up in a live situation or even in practice with a fair heavy handed drummer?!

david

15w valve is too loud with a 1x12 for rehearsal, If you have 60w into a 4x12, it'll be definitely too loud, you'd nearly want a power attenuator tbh. Ever hear an AC30? 30w 2x12 and deafening

gizmo

One more thing gents, going judging by my complete inabilty to play in a stuff off the cuff in a music store environment I was wondering if you wouldn't mind posting some suggested settings for your Fireball and Thunder so I can play my usual riffs.

Tones I'll be looking for will be heavy metalcore ala Killswitch Enage, Shadows Fall and Lamb Of God, hard modern rock ala Alter Bridge/Mark Tremonti and some other stuff by the likes of Children Of Bodom, As I Lay Dying and 3 Inches Of Blood. Also if you have any idea how to pull off a nice Starry Night tone by Satriani it'd be greatly appreciated too.

Karl Hungus

!_Brian_! wrote:

the fireball looks very promising actully. might be worth looking into investing. My only worry tho would be lack of power. How would a 60 watt head fair up in a live situation or even in practice with a fair heavy handed drummer?!

60 Watts all tube can be extremely loud. Trust me when I tell you that you'd have more than enough power for any live situation.

Giblet

Go for a screamer, screw the Line-6. Fireball would be nice, but maybe a little expensive.
And 60w? man, these things rip your head off. I can't even put my thunder about 4-5 and my drummer is a mofo for heavy handedness. Tubes usually destroy any solid state you'll use watt for watt

It wasn't me!

I have a 50W combo, and I assure you, if I turned the fecker up, the drummer wouldn't be able to hear himself. It's more than loud enough for anywhere in this country tbh. If I want to kill things, I'll add a 4x12.

Karl Hungus

gizmo wrote:

One more thing gents, going judging by my complete inabilty to play in a stuff off the cuff in a music store environment I was wondering if you wouldn't mind posting some suggested settings for your Fireball and Thunder so I can play my usual riffs.

Tones I'll be looking for will be heavy metalcore ala Killswitch Enage, Shadows Fall and Lamb Of God, hard modern rock ala Alter Bridge/Mark Tremonti and some other stuff by the likes of Children Of Bodom, As I Lay Dying and 3 Inches Of Blood. Also if you have any idea how to pull off a nice Starry Night tone by Satriani it'd be greatly appreciated too.

Well I'll give you my settings for the Fireball, which should work for the heavy stuff.

Gain - 6
Bass - 4
Mids - 9
Treble - 8
Prescence - 3
Both Bright & Depth switches off.

You might try turning down the gain for some of the more relaxed stuff then.

!_Brian_!

Just making sure. I use a 100watt head trhough a oversize 4x12 cab and granted I dotn turn it all the way up, it gets turned up enough that I worried 60 watt wouldnt cut it. But it is solid state and as someone above said, tubes are louder appearently.

Karl Hungus

!_Brian_! wrote:

Just making sure. I use a 100watt head trhough a oversize 4x12 cab and granted I dotn turn it all the way up, it gets turned up enough that I worried 60 watt wouldnt cut it. But it is solid state and as someone above said, tubes are louder appearently.

You really can't compare solid state to tube. If you got a 30 watt tube amp, it would easily drown out a 100 watt solid state amp.