CityWest 400 hand...

HauleyBear

A hand I played in the 400 event in the city west, just cant decide if this is possible the worst hand I have ever played…
Level 200-400 wit Ante............. Current stack: 11K

I in the SB, wit JQ clubs… folded into me, I make up blind, BB raises to 1400.. I feel I can take him off the hand (Believe he is weak) so reraise to 4500 as a tester… Now the BB goes to the tank, starts counting his chips, checking his cards etc… (which goes on 4 a while)… Then he stacks his chips in one big pile to push & they fall.. (he had a lot of 25 + 100)…

At this stage all Im thinking is that the BB is definitely weak here, and that if he pushes, to call Im getting odds of around 2.4/1... But it is for my tournament wit only JQs….
Eventually he pushes!!:eek: What would you do??

cardshark202

You've put so much in the pot you might as well call unless the BB is suuupertight

mdwexford

why do you think hes weak?? hes raised and re-raised, the best you can hope for is something like ak or 10-10, if he is gone crazy with aq or aj or has a strong holding like hes represented like aces or kings (more likely than jacks or queens seeing as you have one of each) your in horrible shape. id cut my losses and pass i think, you still have 6500 and the blinds are still small enough

i dont like your re-raise preflop with such a weak hand and your out of position if he did just flat call you

El Stuntman

he has AA or KK (and is a graduate of the Ham It Up School of Acting)

fold like a girl and have 6.5k left to play with

Norwich Fan Rob

i assume blinds were about 200/400 at this stage , pointless to be re raising a guy for nearly half your stack with no hand at this point of the tourney.

Gholimoli

i hate this hand.
you think the guy is weak and you can take him off a hand aftre you limp and he raises so you put nearly half your stack in there out of position with QJ?
how does that make sense?
have a plan for the hand .i see it time and time again with people raising just to get some one to fold but thats all thy think about it.they dont spend a second thinking ok what am i going to do if he dosent fold.
what am i going to do if he calls?
what am i gonna do if he pushes?
if you think about these things then you will play the hand accourdingly.
for example you will not put so much of your stack in there with a weak holding OOP just incase he comes over the top.
as played i dont think you have any option but calling but its really silly.

The Sheriff 101

Gholimoli wrote:

You think the guy is weak and you can take him off a hand aftre you limp and he raises so you put nearly half your stack in there out of position with QJ?
how does that make sense?
have a plan for the hand .i see it time and time again with people raising just to get some one to fold but thats all thy think about it.they dont spend a second thinking ok what am i going to do if he dosent fold.
what am i going to do if he calls?
what am i gonna do if he pushes?

I didnt realise i have so much to learn :mad:

If u dont mind me asking how would you play the hand if u felt he was weak is it worth raising pre flop as he will be getting good odds to call and if as u said make a big raise u are commiting alot of your stack

Gholimoli

The Sheriff 101 wrote:

I didnt realise i have so much to learn :mad:

If u dont mind me asking how would you play the hand if u felt he was weak is it worth raising pre flop as he will be getting good odds to call and if as u said make a big raise u are commiting alot of your stack

First of all how do we know if he is weak?
What the post says is the hand was folded to hero in SB who completes, BB raises and villain thinks BB is weak?
By weak do you mean a weak player post flop?
Do you mean he has weak holdings because the size of his raise?
I would never limp reraise this hand.
If it’s folded to me and I think I play better than BB post flop I make a standard raise.
If I feel BB is a strong or loos aggro player I may just complete and drop to a raise.
If I feel his tight post flop I raise and prob potted on the flop .
Basically if its folded to me more than likely I make a raise with that hand when im only against BB but if I just complete then im not reraising with it .

El Stuntman

HauleyBear wrote:

I in the SB, wit JQ clubs… folded into me, I make up blind, BB raises to 1400.. I feel I can take him off the hand (Believe he is weak) so reraise to 4500 as a tester… Now the BB goes to the tank, starts counting his chips, checking his cards etc… (which goes on 4 a while)… Then he stacks his chips in one big pile to push & they fall.. (he had a lot of 25 + 100)…

At this stage all Im thinking is that the BB is definitely weak here

at this stage all I am thinking is completely the opposite

ianmc38

Fold to the initial raise. Now that you've so much in it's probably close to a call, but 15xBB is still playable.

The Sheriff 101

Gholimoli wrote:

First of all how do we know if he is weak? .

I am sure he had more information than just gut feeling that it was a pure bluff as it was a 400 tournament and the standard would be abit above that

cooker3

The Sheriff 101 wrote:

I am sure he had more information than just gut feeling that it was a pure bluff as it was a 400 tournament and the standard would be abit above that

trust me man, I dealt this tournament, the standard was above nothing for a lot of players

Gholimoli

The Sheriff 101 wrote:

I am sure he had more information than just gut feeling that it was a pure bluff as it was a 400 tournament and the standard would be abit above that

oh well in that case great play ...

The Sheriff 101

Let me rephrase the question
It is not this hand I am particularly interested in but more to do with playing the blind when folded around to you.

For instance lets take the same scenario blinds/chip stacks the same
While changing the following Hero as 1 small blind 2 big blind
With 1 of the following hands (is it wrong to class all these hands as equal hands in the same circumstances J10 might be stretching it) QJ KJ Q10 K10 J10

With the villain being 1 of the following
(A) Fish / Calling station
(B) Rock
(C) Maniac / loose aggressive

Situation (i)
Hero (1) Villain (A) would it be +EV to raise as (A) is more likely to call a raise with
Complete garbage (not that I rate Q10 very highly btw)

Hero (2) Villain (A) same as above

Situation (ii)
Hero (1) villain (B) +EV to raise for fold equity and if called you are building pot to steal
Hero as (2) same as above

Situation (iii)

Hero (1) Villain (C) limp as maniac may see this as an attempted bluff and re-raise
Hero(2) just check it as stated above

ianmc38

If he's a complete rock, min-raise him. Lol.
Maniac or calling station, just complete. No point in making it a big pot yet.

The Sheriff 101

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sheriff 101
I am sure he had more information than just gut feeling that it was a pure bluff as it was a 400 tournament and the standard would be abit above that

Cooker3 wrote:

trust me man, I dealt this tournament, the standard was above nothing for a lot of players.

Ok maybe not:o

Gholimoli wrote:

oh well in that case great play ...

right the more i think about this the worse it seems u dont really wnat to be getting involved risking so much of your stack i take back my previous comment

The Sheriff 101

ianmc38 wrote:

If he's a complete rock, min-raise him. Lol.
Maniac or calling station, just complete. No point in making it a big pot yet.

I wouldnt be a fan of the min raise..

what if maniac raises do i call?? ( i lean more on the fold side unless its a min raise)
but i would like to hear what you would do

Gholimoli

The Sheriff 101 wrote:

Let me rephrase the question
It is not this hand I am particularly interested in but more to do with playing the blind when folded around to you.

For instance lets take the same scenario blinds/chip stacks the same
While changing the following Hero as 1 small blind 2 big blind
With 1 of the following hands (is it wrong to class all these hands as equal hands in the same circumstances J10 might be stretching it) QJ KJ Q10 K10 J10

With the villain being 1 of the following
(A) Fish / Calling station
(B) Rock
(C) Maniac / loose aggressive

Situation (i)
Hero (1) Villain (A) would it be +EV to raise as (A) is more likely to call a raise with
Complete garbage (not that I rate Q10 very highly btw)

Hero (2) Villain (A) same as above

Situation (ii)
Hero (1) villain (B) +EV to raise for fold equity and if called you are building pot to steal
Hero as (2) same as above

Situation (iii)

Hero (1) Villain (C) limp as maniac may see this as an attempted bluff and re-raise
Hero(2) just check it as stated above

Im not sure I get your post completely but I think I get the gist of it.
Im not going to categories hands as I think they are irrelevant to what im trying to say.
If its folded around to you on SB and you BB is :

Tight:
Then you can raise liberally with a much wider range of hands because you know his calling range is very narrow. However once he does call then your going to have be very careful because his range is ahead of yours. in this spot its ok to even check TP on dry boards etc .
Basically your raise is intended to take the pot there and then and that’s it.


Loose:
Then you should narrow your raising range because you dint have much chance of stealing the blinds so unless your raising to build the pot, then your raise is not serving any other purpose. You are also playing out of position for the rest of the hand so you will need a stronger hand than normal to start with.

This is the theory and most players fall somewhere in-between those two extremes and so you should adjust accordingly .to say you can raise with KJ but not QJ is just silly IMO .
If you have played on the table for a while then you will know the type of player your facing and should be able to adjust your range your self.

The Sheriff 101

Thanks so if bb is tight raise loose limp fold to raise

The Sheriff 101

Thanks so if bb is tight=raise
Loose=limp
& fold to raise

HauleyBear

I agree wit all the above my reraise to 4500 was wreakless wit JQ in the SB, i should have dumped it or possible call (Stupid B vs B situation).. But the real question here Im looking to answer, is a call correct when im 99% sure the BB is weak here... im sure he weak wit his actions after my reraise...

what i was thinking at the time, 1) was how did i get 40% of my stack in wit JQ :eek: , and 2) im getting nearly 5/2 odds on the call. I know i have enough behind to fold, but i feel this could be a good situation for me to get my remaining chips in. As IMO most of the time im 50/50 or a 6/4 dog...

Anyway i call the BB, only for him to turn over KJo...
no suck out and im gone.....
All i can think when i read over this hand is Dumb Vs Dumber....