Regional Roads Speed Limits Question

bkehoe

Hi,

Following metrification of the speed limits, I remember there being a good bit of ranting, etc, about the speed limits on high quality regional roads being dropped from 60MPH to 80KPH. If I remember correctly, 80KPH was stated as being the max allowed speed limit on a regional road. More recently I've seen people complaining about the 80KPH limits on former N class roads (e.g. the former N4, N1, etc).

So, it was a big surprise to me last week when travelling to Manorhamilton in Leitrim, a journey that I do once or twice a month approx to see several 100KPH signs on various regional roads in Leitrim!

The way I travel would be from the Dublin side on the N4, turn off at Drumsna, go through Leitrim village, Drumkeeran, etc. When I encountered the first sign I thought it was a mistake, but then I came across several other 100KPH signs, and no 80KPH signs. I definatly would have seen this before, so I can only assume that this change happened within the last month or so. Most, if not all of the R280 as far as I could see.

So anyway, I'm not sure exactly what I'm asking, but can the co council actually set a 100KPH limit on a regional road? The road is definatly capable of it, and it makes sense. Has anyone seen 100 limits on other regional roads around the country?

Brendan

mysterious

bkehoe wrote:

Hi,

Following metrification of the speed limits, I remember there being a good bit of ranting, etc, about the speed limits on high quality regional roads being dropped from 60MPH to 80KPH. If I remember correctly, 80KPH was stated as being the max allowed speed limit on a regional road. More recently I've seen people complaining about the 80KPH limits on former N class roads (e.g. the former N4, N1, etc).

So, it was a big surprise to me last week when travelling to Manorhamilton in Leitrim, a journey that I do once or twice a month approx to see several 100KPH signs on various regional roads in Leitrim!

The way I travel would be from the Dublin side on the N4, turn off at Drumsna, go through Leitrim village, Drumkeeran, etc. When I encountered the first sign I thought it was a mistake, but then I came across several other 100KPH signs, and no 80KPH signs. I definatly would have seen this before, so I can only assume that this change happened within the last month or so. Most, if not all of the R280 as far as I could see.

So anyway, I'm not sure exactly what I'm asking, but can the co council actually set a 100KPH limit on a regional road? The road is definatly capable of it, and it makes sense. Has anyone seen 100 limits on other regional roads around the country?

Brendan

There are lots of old N roads reclassified to regional roads with 80kph signs now, in fact all.. Maybe some sections should be 80 but the wide straight streches like the Old Dublin road between Toomevara and Nenagh. (just an abovious example) When it was the main N7 it was probably the finest road in the country at the time. Now it's classed to 80 speeds its a joke. When clearly it's safe to do 105 at least.

It will be the same when all the N4-N9 get upgraded. WSC sections should be at least 100kph. It works in Britain. Some wide regional roads have some lower speed limits at appropriate sections, and some higher again for the same reason.

In Ireland it seems we are doing it the retarded way about it.

bkehoe

My point was Leitrim co council seem to have been proactive and sensible here, and is what I would hope to be the start of a 'revolution' around the country in terms of regional roads. But really I'm wondering why and how they could do it, when ex N class roads cant?

John R

bkehoe wrote:

My point was Leitrim co council seem to have been proactive and sensible here, and is what I would hope to be the start of a 'revolution' around the country in terms of regional roads. But really I'm wondering why and how they could do it, when ex N class roads cant?

They are within their rights to set limits up to 100kph for any R road. The NRA set the limits on N roads and local authorities on all others. All the 60mph sections of non-N roads were changed by default to 80kph on changeover and the LAs were supposed to revise them individually up and down to suit local conditions. Most have not bothered.

Of course what SHOULD have happened was that a survey of all R roads be completed and at changeover every section given an appropriate limit for the conditions of the road.

I used to travel quite often to Manorhamilton myself, there are large stretches of that road that are perfectly acceptable for 100kph. It was incredibly daft that overnight the limit had dropped nearly 15mph on many good R roads while some extremely dangerous N roads stayed at 100kph.

In fact on that journey I often found I would make better progress on the northern section than on the single-carriage N4 as there was less dawdlers.

If Leitrim CC are changing the limits on some roads up to 100 then they should be applauded. If only more other authorities would see sense and apply appropriate limits.

Ham'nd'egger

There is a PDF document on www.transport.ie that explains the guidelines to increasing and decreasing speed limits on roads, but basically the limits are set by the Road traffic Act, 2004.

Localised changes basically can be made either by Road Works Speed Limits Orders by a city or county manager (These usually last for a year tops and would be around road works, etc) or a city/town/county/UDC has the right to change or revise speed limits within their jurisdiction subject to the limits of the 2004 Act and the advice of Gardaí, but also submissions can be made from the general public. Limits on both N, M, R and unclassified roads can be raised or lowered from 120KmPH to 30KmPH, the upper and lower limits respectfully.

bkehoe

Ahh right, thanks. Nice to know that information. So, has anyone else seen other Regional roads with 100KPH limits, or is Leitrim the first to do it?

MG

bkehoe wrote:

Ahh right, thanks. Nice to know that information. So, has anyone else seen other Regional roads with 100KPH limits, or is Leitrim the first to do it?

Yes I've seen a few. If the quality of the road is good but the location doesn't fall on a main artery, they are often R roads but the quality allows them to be 100 zones.

probe

Using road numbers to determine speed limits is about as dumb as one can get!

There are some N roads that are straighter and have more lanes than M roads, and they have 100 km/h speed limits. (eg part of E20 Naas Road).

There are zillions of km of N roads that are bendy, poorly surfaced, and poorly signposted that are unsafe for your average driver in your average car at anything over 70 km/h – often a lot less. Signposted for 100 km/h.

There are lots of R roads that are wide and straight and reasonably well surfaced (even divided highways) and they are bureaucratically limited to 80 km/h.

There are some decrepit R roads with grass growing down the middle that have 80 km/h limits and are barely safe at anything over walking speed.

There are lots of roundabouts where one comes across totally dumb, mis-placed 80 or 100 km/h speed limit signs as one approaches same.

There are narrow, semi-pedestrianised streets in many urban areas with people walking all over the place, rightly treating it as if it was a sidewalk, where the default 50 km/h limit is applied – where drivers are really driving on the footpath as far as pedestrians are concerned. Confusion leads to accidents. In any intelligent, non-negligently run country the limit would be 20 or 30 km/h.

On more than one occasion one has come across road works in IRL with 20 or 30 km/h limits – even on a divided highway where the only excuse for the limit is that one lane is coned off for one reason or another. 50 to 70 km/h would be perfectly safe in the circumstances. The negligent use of cones in Ireland with their fat bases that can blow out of place in a puff of wind, rather than higher profile skinny red and white markers that take up a minimum of road space at ground level, and use strobe lighting after dark with heavy metal bases to anchor them (as are used in most Continental counties) is also a cause for concern. Even less safe than the black and white painted recycled oil barrels they used to use in the past.

At weekends when roadworks are inactive, most speed limit signs (designed for the safety of people working on the road) could be turned away into the ditch, as often happens on the continent.

This administrative incompetence undoubtedly adds to public contempt for speed limits and the public service in general, which doesn’t help the general respect for law and order and the efficient administration of the state. The few idiots who are responsible for these inappropriate speed limits are part of the problem rather than part of the solution. If they were working for a well managed company, they would be kicked out fairly speedily and probably would end up serving frys in a non-pensionable fast food drive-thru until they learned to think intelligently and act accordingly.

probe