Burn baby burn, disco inferno

fuzzbox

Ok - so you all think I'm a big sissy for folding JJ to a single flop bet. And perhaps you are right.

So hows this for a riposte (not a word you get to use everyday !!)


Party 2/4 6-max
Dont know much about these dudes.

400 stacks.

Prelfop
UTG+1 opens to 14, folded to me in the SB, I decide to just call with AKo, BB makes it 60, utg+1 calls, I move the slider all the way to the right and SHOVE IT IN BABY

Do I suck?

Sangre

touché

whats you're image like? seems to show a lot of strength in your hand.

crazy but i dunno, might work once a sitting if you've the right image. Although I can't see you being called without being dominated.

ianmc38

fuzzbox wrote:

Ok - so you all think I'm a big sissy for folding JJ to a single flop bet. And perhaps you are right.

So hows this for a riposte (not a word you get to use everyday !!)


Party 2/4 6-max
Dont know much about these dudes.

400 stacks.

Prelfop
UTG+1 opens to 14, folded to me in the SB, I decide to just call with AKo, BB makes it 60, utg+1 calls, I move the slider all the way to the right and SHOVE IT IN BABY

Do I suck?

Yes.

I did something similar on Sunday morning when I was drunk. The BB had AA. Then I pushed for 75 BBs at 3/6 after the button raised my BB for the umpteenth time. He had AA. I had 99. Lol. That was fun. Playing poker drunk is defo -EV! Oh and another with AK to find AA behind me. Good times.

fuzzbox

ian - that your opponents had AA when you tried it .... means *YOU* suck

ianmc38

What do you think will call you that you're ahead of? Maybe AQ, but thats about it.

pok3rplaya

I dunno. I'd do it if I even know the BB was a regular, any inclination that he knows what a squeese is.

A decent player will read you like a book here and call with 99 but then again that doesn't matter.

fuzzbox

ianmc38 wrote:

What do you think will call you that you're ahead of? Maybe AQ, but thats about it.

Thats not always the right question.
No-one ever calls with AQ.

opr

fuzzbox wrote:

Ok - so you all think I'm a big sissy for folding JJ to a single flop bet. And perhaps you are right.

So hows this for a riposte (not a word you get to use everyday !!)


Party 2/4 6-max
Dont know much about these dudes.

400 stacks.

Prelfop
UTG+1 opens to 14, folded to me in the SB, I decide to just call with AKo, BB makes it 60, utg+1 calls, I move the slider all the way to the right and SHOVE IT IN BABY

Do I suck?

Do we not only get called by a hand that has us dominated here ? Which with a raise and a re-raise i would have thought will happen alot in this situation.

If that is the case are we not effectively bluffing and why would we bluff with AK we might as well be doing this with 2-7 if we are not looking to get called ?

Opr

cardshark202

fuzzbox wrote:

Ok - so you all think I'm a big sissy for folding JJ to a single flop bet. And perhaps you are right.

So hows this for a riposte (not a word you get to use everyday !!)


Party 2/4 6-max
Dont know much about these dudes.

400 stacks.

Prelfop
UTG+1 opens to 14, folded to me in the SB, I decide to just call with AKo, BB makes it 60, utg+1 calls, I move the slider all the way to the right and SHOVE IT IN BABY

Do I suck?

standard

Hectorjelly

opr wrote:

Do we not only get called by a hand that has us dominated here ? Which with a raise and a re-raise i would have thought will happen alot in this situation.

If that is the case are we not effectively bluffing and why would we bluff with AK we might as well be doing this with 2-7 if we are not looking to get called ?

Opr

we are in slightly better shape against QQ

Lafortezza

fuzzbox wrote:

Do I suck?

Yes, unless you won the hand, then no.

El Stuntman

good riposte Fuzzbox

and delivered with élan too!

now tell us they both folded like big girly sissies

Gholimoli

ouch ,i dont see BB droping any PP here but you have a 50/50 against JJ/QQ which would be in his calling range so even though i dont like it but its not so bad.

fuzzbox

Results:
Ya, they both folded.

Sometimes its not about getting called with a worse hand, sometimes its about getting them to fold a better hand (or a hand with good equity against you).

135 dead money aint to be sniffed at.

Gholimoli

fuzzbox wrote:

Results:
Ya, they both folded.

Sometimes its not about getting called with a worse hand, sometimes its about getting them to fold a better hand (or a hand with good equity against you).

135 dead money aint to be sniffed at.

i doubt any one dropped a better hand than yours here Fuzz.
first raiser range is pretty wide but i think BB had something like AK/AQ/AJ/KQ etc.

El Stuntman

Gholimoli wrote:

i doubt any one dropped a better hand than yours here Fuzz.
first raiser range is pretty wide but i think BB had something like AK/AQ/AJ/KQ etc.

I'm not sure Gholi, AK or QQ may well drop in this spot (esp. as he doesn't know Fuzz!).

wp Fuzz, you are no longer a sissy-wuss-girlyman

Gholimoli

El Stuntman wrote:

I'm not sure Gholi, AK or QQ may well drop in this spot (esp. as he doesn't know Fuzz!).

wp Fuzz, you are no longer a sissy-wuss-girlyman

he didnt give stack sizes but i doubt BB would drop QQ here at all.
he will drop any PP below TT which are still better hands than TT but seen as he reraised pre-flop i dont think he would do it with less than TT.
if he is good he may drop JJ,TT but i cant see ppl droping QQ .

El Stuntman

Gholimoli wrote:

he didnt give stack sizes but i doubt BB would drop QQ here at all.
he will drop any PP below TT which are still better hands than TT but seen as he reraised pre-flop i dont think he would do it with less than TT.
if he is good he may drop JJ,TT but i cant see ppl droping QQ .

You wouldn't drop it, neither would I, but never say never, we don't know enough about these dudes stats/styles - plenty of ubertight nits would do so imho (although they shouldn't be playing 6-max if they do! )

I've seen this situation often enough where ppl have dropped QQ to such a move

pok3rplaya

Gholimoli wrote:

i doubt any one dropped a better hand than yours here Fuzz.

QQ/JJ are better hands in an EV sense.

Gholimoli

El Stuntman wrote:

You wouldn't drop it, neither would I, but never say never, we don't know enough about these dudes stats/styles - plenty of ubertight nits would do so imho (although they shouldn't be playing 6-max if they do! )

I've seen this situation often enough where ppl have dropped QQ to such a move

If he is thigh then he is not reraising a raise and a call with nothing out of position so his range is pretty tight something like JJ+, AK, AQ and of those I can only see him dropping AK/AQ, which are not better hands.
If he is a loos player then his reraising range is much wider but then again so is his calling range here and I don’t think any loos player is folding JJ+ here at all.

El Stuntman

Fuzzbox, do the magic and reveal their hole cards - this was party right?

fuzzbox

No idea - they FOLDED !!!

And if they fold everything except QQ/KK/AA, then this move rocks.

pok3rplaya

El Stuntman wrote:

Fuzzbox, do the magic and reveal their hole cards - this was party right?

You caan only do this if the hand goes to showdown. It won't work in this instance.

El Stuntman

fuzzbox wrote:

No idea - they FOLDED !!!

And if they fold everything except QQ/KK/AA, then this move rocks.

what - you can't see their hole cards!! (was wondering if anyone would fall for that)

rigged...

this move rocks until AA/KK calls you, or 22

I suggest you stick a patent on it straight away, call it "De Fuzz-bomb"

Lafortezza

From a Villains point of view would it be possible to figure out that AK is highly likely for Fuzzbox given the way the betting went? And then call with 33 and win. That'd be sick.

Gholimoli

pok3rplaya wrote:

QQ/JJ are better hands in an EV sense.

i know they are better hands but i doubt he had any of them and folded.

Gholimoli

lafortezza wrote:

From a Villains point of view would it be possible to figure out that AK is highly likely for Fuzzbox given the way the betting went? And then call with 33 and win. That'd be sick.

From villains point of view Fuzz’s hand really looks like AK, here or JJ-(on tilt) .
The problem is the deeper the stacks the more both villains in this hand have to lose if they are wrong and Fuzz’s hand has about 50% equity against a PP as high as QQ.
Fuzz is really in bad shape if any of them (BB in particular) is a lose dude and can make this call with any PP. if this is true then this play sucks. but as Fuzz said him self if the calling is going to be only QQ+ then with the amount already in the pot its not so bad.

fuzzbox

Gholimoli wrote:

Fuzz is really in bad shape if any of them (BB in particular) is a lose dude and can make this call with any PP. if this is true then this play sucks. but as Fuzz said him self if the calling is going to be only QQ+ then with the amount already in the pot its not so bad.

This is incorrect.

Do you see why?

Gholimoli

fuzzbox wrote:

This is incorrect.

Do you see why?

As his calling range increases so does your pot equity but your FE drops.
So to be honest I can see it being much different.
Because your gaining in pot equity but loosing FE .
I shouldn’t have said you’re in bad shape cuz I don’t think it makes much of a difference.
I don’t have poker stove here but I would think the EV of your play against QQ+ should be roughly the same as 22+ .
I think all pairs are the top 6% of hands so QQ+ should be top 1.4% of hands.
So your losing 4.5% FE (4.5%x132 which is already in the pot) but gaining % pot equity of 800 .i think they are roughly the same though I could be wrong but yeah I don’t think your in bad shape either way.

eoghan104

fuzzbox wrote:

This is incorrect.

Do you see why?

is it because with the money already in the pot from the OR then your getting pot odds against a small pair?

cardshark202

Getting called by a small PP is not terrible. There is lots of dead money already in the pot and you hand is pretty much 50-50 against a small PP. Having said that I would not like to try making one of these herioc calls here because I have seen AA played the same way as fuzz played. I like the move btw.

opr

Hectorjelly wrote:

we are in slightly better shape against QQ

It doesn't give me the answer but shows me the path to enlightenment !!

You don't suck after all Fuzz Thanks for posting i also really like the move now.

Edit : Out of interest in a situation like this one how often do you think we run into AA or KK ?

Opr

Hectorjelly

Who cares if he calls with QQ?

opr

Hectorjelly wrote:

Who cares if he calls with QQ?

Well i would prefer if he had folded but i got a coin flip and the FE i had made this a good play ??

Opr