Country of Bad Drivers

TheGirlCousins

Maybe this has been covered before but here it goes;

Just after returning from a holiday in USA, during which I rented a car and drove 1100+ miles, mostly Highway miles along the east coast (drove around and through New York twice), and have come to the realisation as to how bad irish drivers are as a whole.

No doubt there are plenty of individual drivers who should not be allowed out on the road and as many competent drivers out there too, but I feel in general the standard of driving here is pathetic.

Here are a few things I noticed out there;

1. People out there can actually drive and handle their car at 60/65 mph, they know the rules of the road, don’t seem to know what to do with filter lanes, traffic lights, roundabouts, motorways, dual carriageways etc.

2. Traffic moves at the speed limit (or 5 miles above it) I didn’t once encounter a gobs***e idling along at 25/30 miles. Even off the highway traffic moved at the speed limit.

3. There is virtually no lane hogging, while their highway system works differently as you can overtake on any lane, cars moved lanes often, which meant very few queues of traffic.

4. They have 4 Way Stops, eliminating small - medium roundabouts, these are ingenious, they are crossroads where no one road has right of way, the vehicle who arrives at the junction first has right of way and then the second does, and so on. They keep traffic moving at a much quicker pace than roundabouts do here.

5. Also the road infrastructure out there is generally excellent; signage is top notch, which contributes hugely to the movement of traffic and safety.

6. Finally and probably most importantly driving over there was absolutely stress free.

Now I’m not saying all their driving is good but I feel we could learn a lot from various other countries.

Have also driven in France, Spain and Italy, where I think the driving standard is a lot better than here (they may drive like lunatics in Italy but they are bloody good drivers).

While I think that provisional drivers may be part of the problem here, there a many, many people who have passed their test and shouldnt be on the road.

Suppose what I’m really asking is what can we / the government / whoever do to improve the level of driving in this country? I think we need a cultural change here. Maybe I’m being naïve but would this not have a knock on effect re safety and road rage / stress?

nialldinho

i'm just back from doing 2600 miles around the west coast of america and i agree completely with everything you've said. it was a pleasure to drive over there.

one thing that may contribute to this is that the kids seem to get driving instruction in school over there. whereas we just let kids out on their own without even having a lesson.

Alun

Mostly agree with all your points, except for the bit about roundabouts. If used (and designed!) properly they work much better than 4-way stop signs IMO.

Whilst the road signage is quite good, in many cases you'll be out of luck if your main language isn't English. Whereas in Europe we use a (mostly) unified system of symbolic signs, in the US it isn't uncommon to see signs with an amount of text on them which would almost qualify as a short story. Fine if it's your first language and you can read it in time, but otherwise useless.

Vegeta

I was in a camper van that drove from west coast to east coast of America last summer and I cant even remember ever swearing at one driver where as I do it several times a day here. I didn't drive myself as i have a provisional but i didn't see any of the usual stupid things i see here

I think there road network has a lot to do with it though.

EDIT: I am not implying i am the perfect driver either,

Stephen

I agree also. I haven't driven in the US, but I have driven in Switzerland and Germany, and the standard of driving and infrastructure there puts us to shame. Top quality roads everywhere, no dawdling arseholes, and drivers that know how to drive properly. If only it was like that here.

dr.bollocko

What is the most annoying aspect of driving in Ireland for you? Is it slow speeds drivers, tailgaters, the traffic jam weaver, or the person who just wouldnt know their way around a roundabout to save their life?
I am a provisional (boo!!!) driver, waiting for a test for 36 weeks now. I dont want to be a provisional driver, it effected my insurance hugely, I cant rent cars in other countries, Im not supposed to be in a car on my own, its really ****ing annoying, and those L plates are often more like a target for short-tempered drivers than anything else. I have spent enough time learning to drive to know that I can drive safely, but I really feel that you need to take a test because it does force you to learn, or in my case even relearn the absolute basics. Stuff that you take for granted.

Do you notice, like other threads, mostly problems from taxi drivers, or van drivers, or truck drivers, or land-rover drivers, or who would you say categorically is the worst type of driver you regularly come across on the roads?

Wazdakka

dr.bollocko wrote:

who would you say categorically is the worst type of driver you regularly come across on the roads?

Im shure ill get abuse over this... But Taxi drivers

In my experience i have had more problems with these than any other steriotypable driving group.

*** Offtopic message for taxi drivers***
The use of your indicators do NOT automatically give you right of way!

Hippo

Just back from 5 days driving the autobahns and cities of western germany. What an absolute pleasure, everyone drives well, I didn't hear a horn sounded in anger in my time there. Of course their driving test is far more comprehensive and lengthy than ours, and the roads and signage are beyond comparison, but still, you'd wish we could copy them a little.

Vegeta

dr.bollocko wrote:

What is the most annoying aspect of driving in Ireland for you? Is it slow speeds drivers, tailgaters, the traffic jam weaver, or the person who just wouldnt know their way around a roundabout to save their life?
I am a provisional (boo!!!) driver, waiting for a test for 36 weeks now. I dont want to be a provisional driver, it effected my insurance hugely, I cant rent cars in other countries, Im not supposed to be in a car on my own, its really ****ing annoying, and those L plates are often more like a target for short-tempered drivers than anything else. I have spent enough time learning to drive to know that I can drive safely, but I really feel that you need to take a test because it does force you to learn, or in my case even relearn the absolute basics. Stuff that you take for granted.

Do you notice, like other threads, mostly problems from taxi drivers, or van drivers, or truck drivers, or land-rover drivers, or who would you say categorically is the worst type of driver you regularly come across on the roads?

I hate tailgaters and the roundabout retards.

If someone is driving slowly there is generally a reason for it, even if its as simple as the driver doesn't feel comfortable at speed. I never get pissed at someone driving slowly.

I HATE tailgaters, especially at night. If i am driving along doing to speed limit and someone decides to hug my rear bumper it drives me nuts. The first reason is because if i have to brake hard they may go in to the back of me and the second is because at night driving that close with lights on is a pain in the ass.

The second group is the round about retard, they either select incorrect lane and lane hop illegally cutting someone off or have misplaced their indicators

Dublinstiofán

TheGirlCousins wrote:

While I think that provisional drivers may be part of the problem here, there a many, many people who

Suppose what I’m really asking is what can we / the government / whoever do to improve the level of driving in this country? I think we need a cultural change here. Maybe I’m being naïve but would this not have a knock on effect re safety and road rage / stress?

That’s a stupid attitude. Sorry, we all got to learn sometime though. Im sure if you think back you were a Provisional driver not so long ago yourself. And it’s really not our fault that the list to take the test is so long. When I booked mine the waiting list was 56 weeks.
And you can’t blame it all on us. I have found that the most mannerly drivers are the ones with the 'L plates'.

I think the problems here are
1: Roads, (were not America, we never will be. There’s room for improvement but were a small country)
2: People who have been driving for years and think they’re above everybody else because of their few extra years experience. I know a number of fully licensed drivers that are absolutely **** and im terrified in the car with them.
3: Learner drivers who really can't drive. I.e. can’t even take off after traffic lights. Use a car park to practise before you torment everybody on the road and get a bad name for us all.
4: OAP's who can barely walk let alone drive. There should be a system in place where they have to take a test at like 70 to see if they’re still able and fit to drive. Fact of the matter is most of them prob never even had a test in the first place and were given a free licence as they did years ago when there was a backlog.
5: I think SOME taxi drivers have their fair share of the rap to take for this one too. Sure they can drive they do it for a living. But SOME of them do it too dangerously with total disregard for other drivers and pedestrians most of the time.

Wake up by the way the standard is set. Ireland is one of the hardest places in Europe to get a driving licence in. In Dublin alone there’s a 56% failure rate last I checked. The problem isn’t with the new drivers as they have just qualified and are recently certified to be safe to drive. It’s with SOME OF THE older ones who are rude and obnoxious on the roads and have in fact forgotten all the rules and gotten into bad habits themselves over the years.

I think the solution is if people are given more than 3 penalty points they should be made re-sit their test. Won't be long finding out the dangerous drivers that shouldn't be on the road then.

layke

Been to the US twice although not driving I was in shock at the ****e level of driving there. Traffic weaving without indicationg is common, everyone has radar detectors to catch the cops with speed traps out.

Imo they suck, BUT they do have far far better roads then us yet with big untertuned 6.0L engines that handle like a shopping trolly.

I believe the road death rate in the US would be higher in comparison and seeing as the government won't actually release the details of why people are crashing all the time (they tell us but don't give the paperwork to back the claims up). I bet it's the road system on dingy country roads but would cost too much of Bertie's revenue to sort out.

the_syco

Hippo wrote:

Just back from 5 days driving the autobahns and cities of western germany. What an absolute pleasure, everyone drives well, I didn't hear a horn sounded in anger in my time there. Of course their driving test is far more comprehensive and lengthy than ours, and the roads and signage are beyond comparison, but still, you'd wish we could copy them a little.

Is it true that they're taught on how to overtake, and also how to drive @ night?

=-=

I also think Provisional Drivers are a stupid idea. Sure, you have to learn how to drive, but wtf is the story with being able to keep driving after failing the test 5 times?

TBH, it should be included in secondry school. A "How to drive" class, 3 times a week. Fail it, and get a 5 year driving ban.

dr.bollocko

Yeah I dont buy it that we are worse than Italian or Spanish drivers. They are just nuts. And abusive of others, they have their own set of rules there and they bear no correlation to anything as arbitrary as what the government decided should be the rules.
I see the taxi driver thing, partic re indicating. Just because they turn on an indicator they feel that they have a right to cross lanes, infringe on the right-of-way of others, outright running of red lights at night, cutting lanes in roundabouts, but that is a small section of the taxi driving population. I just hate agressive drivers, the person who tailgates you for ten miles on a motorway is gonna be the same person who lane-cuts a roundabout at the end of it in front of you. I hate people that go into the outside lane to turn right on a roundabout. Just slip into the outside lane there, I'll be fine.
But the range-rover driving woman has to be one of the worst. Perrennially on her mobile, driving too slowly, her car sprawling across two lanes, dawdling at lights, and the know-it-all bitch face she gives you if you beep the bitch for hopping a lane, blind, two feet from you on a roundabout.

RobAMerc

The plain truth is the Irish are not a nation of car lovers, its not in the blood or psyche.

We like cars for the bling value but as a whole the Irish motorist would be way down the list when it comes to having any real love or understanding of driving.

To be fair, its only in the last 20 yrs that the Irish nation has become car owners really, up until then it was the enthusiast or the "well heeled" who had cars. The firsts abilities allowed them to avoid the few "well heeled" motorists there was out there!

Now we all have cars but they are generally seen as an extension of our wallets.

European drivers in particular are infinately more skillfull than Irish drivers,even if their attitude is a little chaotic, but their traffic volumes are far higher than ours and they need to keep moving.

Hippo

the_syco wrote:

Is it true that they're taught on how to overtake, and also how to drive @ night?

They learn how to drive at night, how to drive on a motorway and how to drive in the wet. The whole process seems to be long and painstaking and there's no quick way through it, but its effectiveness is unmistakable when you see the quality of the average driver there. It's a different world

dr.bollocko

Waddayamean we only had 20 years? I think thats plenty of time to get used to owning a car. Its not like the gradual erosion of a mountain over hundreds of years, its a car. A car.
The european style of driving is always gonna be, smaller engined fuel efficient driving as well as getting an engine that can cut the mustard when it comes to acceleration, but Id say that as a nation we are wising up as to which cars are good and which cars are awful. Ok We see a lot of SSangyongs and *****togetintos on the road, and far too many bastard fiats. But the average Irish person uses their car more than the comparable american, we are definitely a nation of car lovers.


We should without doubt introduce a policy whereby young drivers are educated at school about the practicalities of driving and the rules of the road, but insurance is the main reason why most schools couldnt afford any kind of situation where pupils actually get valid experience behind the wheel. I often thought that a really decent driving simulation would help to some extent in cases like this.

TheGirlCousins

Dublinstiof&#225 wrote: »

That’s a stupid attitude. Sorry, we all got to learn sometime though. Im sure if you think back you were a Provisional driver not so long ago yourself. And it’s really not our fault that the list to take the test is so long. When I booked mine the waiting list was 56 weeks.
And you can’t blame it all on us. I have found that the most mannerly drivers are the ones with the 'L plates'.

What i actually wrote was:
While I think that provisional drivers may be part of the problem here, there a many, many people who have passed their test and shouldnt be on the road.

I agree with you the time people have to wait for a test is criminal

Dublinstiof&#225 wrote: »

Wake up by the way the standard is set.

I was just asking what could be done by anyone to raise the standard, surely the standard of driving is not set in stone and does change, all be it slowly. Although it seems to be in steady decline in the past few years.

Dublinstiof&#225 wrote: »

Ireland is one of the hardest places in Europe to get a driving licence in. In Dublin alone there’s a 56% failure rate last I checked.

Does this not just further the argument that the standard of driving here is low. The test is dated, no compulsary driving at 100kmph, no night driving, no compulsary roundabouts, no overtaking, no motorway driving etc. can driving tet be compared across Europe. There probably needs to be a licenced driving teacher network put in place, with noone being allowed on the road for the first time without 10/15 lessons.


Also, I dont think the problem is confined to just the drivers who are years/decades driving. Passing your driving test is no longer any indication of how good a driver you are, its easy to drive "properly" for 20/25 minutes, pass the test and drive like a lunatic for the rest of your life. I have seen many OAP cruising along at 60/65 mph over in the states.

There have been a huge underfunding of capital infrastructure in ireland in the past, look at the amount of congestion on them now - are we even at the European average for car ownership yet?

galah

sorry, at least the Italians and Spanish have organised chaos - they know what's going on around them, even if they do crazy stuff on the road. The amount of absolutely oblivious Irish drivers is unreal! They wouldn't know what hit them, literally. Mirrors are just for checking make-up, indicators are pointless, and why fix the lights on the car - the driver doesn't see them, so it doesn't matter...who cares who's behind, who cares if the driver behind you does not know whether you are braking or not.

Irish drivers assume that they have some God-given right of way, and also assume everyone else will watch out if they're doing something stupid, so they don't have to pay attention or think...

I could go on and on - fact is, Ireland is the country with the worst drivers in Europe! It's NOT just the L-drivers (although the concept still makes my toenails curl...), it's the fact that proper driving education is lacking (in Germany, you have to have a certain number of professional driving lessons, at night, on motorways, on country roads, in the city, and only AFTER you passed the test you're allowed on the road, with two year's provision) and has been lacking for centuries, the fact that rules are not enforced (a great introduction would be red-light cameras, and more speed cameras - it's really weird how the government has not picked-up on that money-spinner yet), the fact that speed limits are inappropriate most of the time, the roads are ****e (most of the time), and the amount of egotism and fecklessness as soon as people get behind the wheel of a car...

dr.bollocko

Yeah Galah you have a point, virtually everything you said.
Its definitely a lack of education causing a large number of problems.
Theres nothing like a course of about 10 lessons with a qualified and good instructor to put most drivers in their places. Its about learning how to be as safe as possible and maintain some level of time-efficiency, not about GOTTAGETTHERERIGHTNOW!!!!! type asking for death speeding. Im really pissed off at the state of Irish drivers and the fact that they are let get away with it to such a huge degree. I think everyone knows a place on their route to work where someone is going to break the law, there are places on Irish roads where someone breaks the law every minute, let alone every day. We have speed limits that are ill-defined and drivers that are so holier-than-thou, certain of their god-given right to be on the road, it really has a steering wheel in my boxers.

Kashkai

Totally agree with the suggestion re teaching kids to drive while they're in school (although where I grew up on de nortsoide, most people I knew were able to drive when they were 14 or 15 - and usually not in their Dad's car;) ).

When you think about it, its stupid that anyone can get a provisional licence and get behind the wheel of a car and take off. They should have to take compulsary driving lessons with a recognised school of motoring before they are eligible to get the prov. licence.

The driving test also has to be brought up to date. They don't even take you out onto a motorway for gods sake (I know motorways are few and far between in this country but you could substitute a dual carriageway to show how to use lane discipline).

As for one poster's comments that we have a harsh driving test with a 56% fail rate, I'd say this has more to do with the crap learners abilities than the tester having had a fight with the wife that morning.

Stephen

Some counties don't even have any dual carriageway, such as here in Kilkenny :rolleyes:
Nearest dualler/motorway is the M7 at Portlaoise (which is a great road, once you get that far).

Wishbone Ash

TheGirlCousins wrote:

Just after returning from a holiday in USA, during which I rented a car and drove 1100+ miles, mostly Highway miles along the east coast (drove around and through New York twice), and have come to the realisation as to how bad irish drivers are as a whole

Perhaps, but then again, if you spent some time driving in some other countries you would come to the opposite conclusion. (India springs to mind)

but I feel in general the standard of driving here is pathetic.

Pathetic comparied to three or four other countries?

2. Traffic moves at the speed limit (or 5 miles above it) I didn’t once encounter a gobs***e idling along at 25/30 miles. Even off the highway traffic moved at the speed limit.

It's a limit not a target. Some of us drive vehicles which are unable, or legally prohibited from travelling at the indicated limit.

3. There is virtually no lane hogging, while their highway system works differently as you can overtake on any lane, cars moved lanes often, which meant very few queues of traffic.

Much more tarmac per vehicle in the US.

4. they are crossroads where no one road has right of way, the vehicle who arrives at the junction first has right of way and then the second does, and so on.

just like the thousands of rural Irish crossroads with roads of equal importance where the person who arrives first has right of way (unless two vehicles arrive at the same time).

5. Also the road infrastructure out there is generally excellent; signage is top notch, which contributes hugely to the movement of traffic and safety.

You are contradicting yourself and the thread here. If Irish road infrastructure and signage was excellent perhaps we would be better drivers too! To make an accurate comparison you have to compare like with like.

Now I’m not saying all their driving is good but I feel we could learn a lot from various other countries.

I don't think I ever seen an American use a seat belt or successfully park a vehicle in a tight space without colliding with others.

TheGirlCousins

Well where do I start!!

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Perhaps, but then again, if you spent some time driving in some other countries you would come to the opposite conclusion. (India springs to mind)

India!!! Any country in the world would look like it had a high standard of driving compared to India - which is widely acknowledged as the worst country in the world to drive in.

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Pathetic compared to three or four other countries?

Yes, pathetic compared to the countries listed above, which are fully developed first world countries, which I believe we are on par with.

Wishbone Ash wrote:

It's a limit not a target. Some of us drive vehicles which are unable, or legally prohibited from travelling at the indicated limit.

I cannot count the number of times I've been stuck someone driving along in a tractor for miles and miles (last weekend was behind one for 13 minutes) and wont pull-in (in some countries you are obliged to pull over when you have more than 3 cars behind you), or on a National road with a hard shoulder moving along at 30/40 mph looking at everything around them, happy as pigs in ****., if someone is driving, that’s what they should be doing not sightseeing. That’s all perhaps off topic though, the problem lies with the culture about drivin. If someone is not competent enough to control a roadworthy car at the national speed limit what are they doing on the road in the first place, This is where the problem lies, no? If they a learner drivers they shouldnt be permitted on the road without doing x amount of hours with a qualified driving instructor, and if they have a full licence, its more alarming and shows how irrelevant the driving test is.

Wishbone Ash wrote:

Much more tarmac per vehicle in the US.

I agree here as I said the road building program here has been under funded for all but the last 5/10 years

Wishbone Ash wrote:

just like the thousands of rural Irish crossroads with roads of equal importance where the person who arrives first has right of way (unless two vehicles arrive at the same time).

If you look closely at rural crossroads there is always a road which takes precedence over the other, hence the yield signs, there is no crossroads which I have come across which has four yield signs on it. The 4-Way stops are used there, where to small - medium roundabouts here, which very few drivers use correctly.

Wishbone Ash wrote:

You are contradicting yourself and the thread here. If Irish road infrastructure and signage was excellent perhaps we would be better drivers too! To make an accurate comparison you have to compare like with like.

Perhaps the tread was inaccurately titled, but was trying to include all factors which make driving in this country a stressful experience. While I think drivers are the main problem, there are other contributing factors, such as roads, signage, speeding, etc.

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I don't think I ever seen an American use a seat belt or successfully park a vehicle in a tight space without colliding with others.

We still can learn a lot from them, they're not perfect, they also still have a serious drink driving problem. Overall IMO they are miles ahead.

Wishbone Ash

TheGirlCousins wrote:

in some countries you are obliged to pull over when you have more than 3 cars behind you

1. That is not a legal requirement here. Have you ever driven a tractor on a busy road? If you pull in it can be very difficult to get out again. No one wants a tractor in front of them. I will pull in when I can though as a matter of courtesy.

2. 80kph is the maximum permitted speed for any truck over 3.5 tonnes (unless exempted).

3. 45kph is the maximun speed for a moped.

4. 64 kph is the maximum permitted speed for a bus with standing passengers.

5. 64kph is the maximum permitted speed for a vehicle towing another vehicle.

All these vehicles may legally travel in non-motorway roads but will not be permitted to travel at the legal speed limit e.g 100kph. Hardly the drivers fault!

I said the road building program here has been under funded for all but the last 5/10 years

Again, hardly the drivers fault!

If you look closely at rural crossroads there is always a road which takes precedence over the other, hence the yield signs,

There are many junctions in rural Ireland where the roads are of equal importance. They are even referred to in the Rules of the Road. (Page 66 in the 22nd edition - 4 pictures of junction signs with "roads of equal importance".

Perhaps the tread was inaccurately titled,

Perhaps, but I agree with your general positive sentiments and remember that we don't all only drive cars.

Archeron

I reckon selfishness and sheer doziness have a lot to do with messing up traffic in Ireland, certainly in Dublin anyway.

As regards selfishness, how many times do you see a 40 foot (I pick trucks specifically here as I find they are notorious) who is inching along, and cruises thorugh an orange light and completely blocks all traffic trying to get onto a main road, regardless of box junctions? Every single day at the junction of the Ibis Hotel Clondalkin pulling out onto the Naas road/red cow inbound I see this, and its sheer selfishness on the offenders part that he couldnt be arsed waiting for the next green light, so will just block everybody instead and cause a huge tailback somewhere else.
Likewise, this type of rubbish comes into play in other areas as well. It can take 15 minutes to get off the N4 inbound at LIffey Valley bacause of a combination of people going through orange lights and blocking the entire roundabout (as above), or, even more annoying, people who arent even leaving the carriageway, they actually come off and then go round the r'bout and straight back on, thinking it saves them a couple of minutes. Sheer bullshlt, and a total lack of respect for other road users.

As regards doziness, I am fed up of watching people sit in their cars nattering away on their mobiles/reading the paper/eating a roll and who dont even notice that the light has gone green. On regular occasions, I see junctions where the green light comes on, it can be 10-15 seconds before the first car even moves. Then the second car does the exact same thing. There are some signal changes I've seen where 25/30 cars should get through the lights on one green, but due to people who couldnt care for paying attention, you are sometimes lucky if 10 get through. This makes a huge difference when there are 100+ cars queuing at a set of lights and causes massive tailbacks, frustrating people futher and causing people to do even more stupid manvoures.

My special award though goes to the lady who, this morning, spotted the orange light on the traffic signal ahead, and instead of just stopping like everyone else, almost lost control of the car trying to get into the bus lane (which bypasses the traffic light) missed clipping a van by about an inch, and then mounted the footpath before coming to what looked like a very nervous stop.. All that to save about 30 seconds. I think learning respect and accepting the fact that one is NOT the only vehicle of importance on the road would go a long way to helping us all.

dudara

I feel that there are a lot of incompetent middle-aged drivers out there, those who would have received their license in the amnesty. They are just downright dangerous at times. (My father's friend can drive C-class vehicles without ever having taken a test due to him receiving his license in the amnesty. Thankfully, he is a good driver, but there are others out there who are not).

I feel that the Irish as a whole need to be taught how to be road-aware. Check who is behind you, in front of you, to your sides. Know what speed you're travelling at and what distance therefore to keep from other cars.
Be aware at traffic lights, roundabouts and yellow boxes. Assess traffic lights/yellow boxes as you drive up to them, and if you can't make it through then stop and wait until it is possible. This is the kind of stuff that needs to be taught.

But a large amout of Irish people do not assess the road in front of them. They will drive willy-nilly into roundabouts, traffic lights, yellow boxes and junctions and then stop, causing even more bother.

I drive home through the Dunkettle interchange and along the quays in Cork every evening at the moment. The amount of people who will just barge forward into a junction they can't exit is just shocking.

Now I know that we can all get caught at times through sudden stops, but keeping your eyes open and thinking will help you avoid most situations.

It's simply a case of being road aware.

prospect

I disagree with the OP to a certain degree.

Sure Ireland has terrible drivers, and in a lot of cases it is pure selfishness and arrogance, rather than lack of skill.
However, you go to the American, or Australian, or British equivalent of boards.ie and you will see that they too complain about their own standards of driving.

Maybe the fact you were on Holidays, and relaxed, and probably not sitting in traffic at commuter hours meant that you were more tolerant of other drivers, and it seemed everyone was nicer on the road. I certainly notice the driving standards, and tolerance drop considerably during the morning and evening rush.

Remeber, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, but its just as hard to cut it.

peasant

along the greener grass theme ...

In Germany, the typical small fender-bender type accident at a cross road (in town at low speed) doesn't happen because people are too stupid or dozy to yield properly ...but becuase the other party (whose right of way has just been cut up) insists on putting the pedal down instead of breaking ("I'm in the right, they are in the wrong, I'll show them" -kind of thing)

Taking "good driving standards" to the extreme by "educating" other road users via some bent metal and an insurance bill.

In Ireland the difference in these situations is that usually both parties are totally oblivious to what is going on

Alun

prospect wrote:

Sure Ireland has terrible drivers, and in a lot of cases it is pure selfishness and arrogance, rather than lack of skill.

I disagree, and find that it's actually the exact opposite. Yes, other countries have selfish and arrogant drivers too, that's just a fact of human nature, but here I feel it's pretty much 90% down to ignorance and incompetence.

However, you go to the American, or Australian, or British equivalent of boards.ie and you will see that they too complain about their own standards of driving.

Of course. Just like the Swiss complain about their busses being 2 minutes late. Different standards.

Maybe the fact you were on Holidays, and relaxed, and probably not sitting in traffic at commuter hours meant that you were more tolerant of other drivers, and it seemed everyone was nicer on the road. I certainly notice the driving standards, and tolerance drop considerably during the morning and evening rush.

That can certainly be a contributory factor when recounting stories of how wonderful driving is in other countries, but I've lived and driven for many years in Holland, Germany and the UK, and believe me Irish drivers score way down on the scale compared to these places.

Remeber, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, but its just as hard to cut it.

Again, I agree, impressions of other countries (Ireland included!) gained when on holiday are rarely representative. Only when the harsh reality of actually working and living in that country takes hold do you see the real nature of the place, driving habits included.

dubstub

I've driven a lot in Spain during rush hour and doing the work routes and runs that you'd be more likely to do as a resident (my father and sister are both residents) and the standard of driving is much lower than here. People will overtake you on bends, even if you are travelling at the speed limit. People will cut you up if they feel like it or think they can get away with it. There is very little courtesy afforded to any other users of the road.
The roads in Spain are excellent and well-maintained but this just seems to encourage heavy speeding.
I don't have as much experience driving in the US, except for a drive from New York to Florida and a couple of times around Florida from Tampa to Orlando to Miami. I didn't find the quality of driving that amazing. One thing that really stuck in my head was the reluctance of drivers to allow room for other drivers when they need to switch lanes. On the flip-side, they don't seem to mind being cut-up so instead of waiting for a wider gap to be made for you, it seemed you just moved in - something which you'd be blown out of it for over here. Changing 6 lanes on a busy express-way at 80 mph with just 2 miles to your exit is a bit of an experience when driving in those kind of conditions!

Dublinstiofán

Prosperous Dave wrote:

As for one poster's comments that we have a harsh driving test with a 56% fail rate, I'd say this has more to do with the crap learners abilities than the tester having had a fight with the wife that morning.

I'd say its more to do with the fact they like to screw people to the wall making them pay for the test twice. Are you a driving instructor? Didn't think so. Can't really comment on "crap learners abilities" then can ya, really? As you don't know.

I agree that there may be some really crap learner drivers and totally agree that they should have somewhere else to practise and shouldn't be aloud on the roads without at least 10 driving lessons done but there are as many really bad fully licenced drivers out there as provisional ones ya can't say that theyre all 'crap'.

Wishbone Ash

Archeron wrote:

As regards selfishness, how many times do you see a 40 foot (I pick trucks specifically here as I find they are notorious) who is inching along, and cruises thorugh an orange light and completely blocks all traffic trying to get onto a main road, regardless of box junctions?

It is not always the truck drivers fault. In my experience of driving trucks, this frequently happens in busy slow moving two/three lane roads. Most trailers are 45 feet now (not 40) and factoring in the length of the protruding portion of the tractor unit means that the driver needs to wait for a gap of at least 55 feet to open up on the far side of the box. Therein lies the problem.

As a sufficient gap appears in ahead in the heavy traffic and the driver begins to manoeuvre across the yellow box, selfish idiots in cars dart from their lane into the space that the truck driver had intended to use leaving him with no option but to stop illegally on the box. I understand the frustration caused but bear in mind that it is not always the truckers fault.

This occurs frequently in Drumcondra (inbound) at the start of the bus lane near the Viscount? pub and (inbound) from Nicholas Street onto Christchurch Place.

PS Amber lights not 'orange'.

Bob the Builder

While I think that provisional drivers may be part of the problem here, there a many, many people who have passed their test and shouldnt be on the road.

Bloody Well Said!
My brother was a provisional for about 12months, his driving was excellent, however he had a tendancy to speed, but he was a ver sensible driver at that time. He had many close accidents.

These accidents were caused by idiotic drivers. Let me give you an example(I was always a passenger so i saw everything). on a tight road which we live on with many corners. there is briors sticking out on the road where the co. council c.b.a fixing. A driver(usually female, not being racist) would refuse to let her car near these briors and so would stay onto the middle of the road and/or refuse to stop to let our car past....

...Other one would include the urban areas, in Westport, we have an unusual traffic system where some streets are one-way. The markings are usually on the road or on signs, but many were faded and tourists with cars never saw the instructions on the sign/road, they would pull straight out in front of you in the wrong way, or else they would be looking at shops on the way up the street, then take a wrong turn and near crash.....

Goverments are to blame also for their handling. Time we stopped blaming Gardaí....

Wishbone Ash

nevf wrote:

My brother was a provisional for about 12months

IRA? Political forum?

his driving was excellent, however he had a tendancy to speed but he was a ver sensible driver

sounds a bit contradictary

briors sticking out on the road

briors?

A driver(usually female, not being racist)

brilliant

we have an unusual traffic system where some streets are one-way.

So Westport is like most other towns!


(Sorry, I couldn't resist!)

ninty9er

1. There is no place for driver instruction in our national curriculum. The amount of subjects already on the tietable just for the sake of "personal development" which are always used as study classes is ridiculous. 4 a week in Leaving Cert.
3 R.E./Debate and an SPHE (SPHE generally ends up being a supervised study class and the RE Debates ar optional with study as the other option)

GET IT INTO YOUR HEADS - WE DON'T HAVE ROOM FOR SCHOOL INSTRUCTION IN SENIOR CYCLE (how many of you have been ther in the last 2-3 years)

If Transition year was made compulsory it could work, but then you have 1000s every year who leave at 16 to do apprenticeships or go to FÁS.

The only way s to have a pass in the theory test certified as a 12 month permit to learn how to drive in a car/on a bike with an instructor.

This would not be a licence- but a permit- permitting the holder to get lessons on a public road in a dual controlled vehicle, with a certified instructor(which don't currently exist)- who would certify 20 hours of driving and 5 hours theory.after you have done this- do your test- pass- get a licence, none of this restriction ****e- just drive.


If you want the quality of roads and other public services provided in europe in an area tyhe size of Ireland, you'd have to bring the population of the Republic to 7 million, reduce welfare, get lazy spongers out to work and raise taxes to almost 60% at the marginal rate almost 30% for the base rate.

Can't see any of the people on this forum agreeing with that!!

Wishbone Ash

dudara wrote:

there are a lot of incompetent middle-aged drivers out there, those who would have received their license in the amnesty

I'd be more concerned about the amount of motorists who aquired their licence by simple application before the introduction of driving tests in 1964.

The amnesty of the 11th october 1979 applied to those drivers on their second provisional licence and who had applied for a test. 38,085 qualified for it and, even if they are all still driving, they only account for 2% of the current number of drivers.

TempestSabre

The big difference between other countries like the UK and Germany and Ireland is that the cops enforce the rules.

darkflower

:rolleyes: can't we be civilized and do that here?...
it would mean a hassle free trip. driving is fun when every one else in the road is disciplined.;)

dr.bollocko

Thats true. I have a tendency towards occasional agression, and for a time I did exhibit this tendancy on the roads, but this was only directed towards drivers queue-skipping, ducking and diving roundabouts, and overtaking illegally. I wasnt bashing ppl, or driving dangerously, but had a tendancy to let rip with the car-horn and lights, and the regular middle finger thrown in.

Painfully slow drivers, I have no problem with, drivers who dont indicate, this is the irish way and something you just have to get used to. It took me longer to get over the middle aged woman, straddling two lanes in a massive people carrier, ignoring all signals and winding through roundabouts, but I think that I have got a handle even on these bitches.
With their know-it-all faces. Making me so angry!!!!!!
Ok need some work with these still...

I take a bit of pride in my driving, as I reckon we all do, so for me, I always like learning something new about the car, I indicate no matter how empty the road is and I have even found myself not ignoring some of the more ridiculous irish speed limits.
But those roundabout jumping, lane skipping, get there first and disrespect all the other traffic type drivers, man they still piss me off. I dont react, but it still bothers me!
It happens so often it just really annoys me at this stage and I dont want to let them away with it. In terms of acting on the agression I have learned to control this but it really puts a steering wheel in me boxers to see people doing it.

Wishbone Ash

dr.bollocko wrote:

a tendancy to let rip with the car-horn and lights, and the regular middle finger thrown in.

A bit contradictory dr.bollocko. A driver who remains calm and collected has a lot more credibility that a rude and aggressive one. You are only bringing yourself down to their level and are just as much of a menace on our roads as incompetent drivers. I prefer to maintain my composure and use a slow shake of the head as I pass or even a :rolleyes:.

dr.bollocko

As I said its a reaction that I have curbed and dont do anymore. Its the tendancy to get angry when you see someone else doing stupid on the roads. Now I just realise how stupid it is to react at all, and just get on with my own driving.

Thank god your robotically superior driving skills were honed so well with all that training you must have done, possibly with numerous professional race cars and that meet and greet you did with the road safety authority, otherwise, you would just come across as superior and pathetically pedantic.

Wishbone Ash

dr.bollocko wrote:

Thank god your robotically superior driving skills were honed so well with all that training you must have done, possibly with numerous professional race cars and that meet and greet you did with the road safety authority, otherwise, you would just come across as superior and pathetically pedantic.

Well for a start I have a full, clean, unrestriced licence in categories A1,A,B,BE,C1,C1E,C,CE,D1,D1E,D,DE,M,W so I would have done more 'training' than the average motorist. What about you?

dr.bollocko

Well I flew in 'Nam. Reconassaince missions, under the radar so to speak.
From there I spent a brief amount of time testing custom and mod cars for the formula 3000 series. After that I wrote numerous books on driving including "the rules of the road" "How to be pedantic when talking about driving" and "Why in the hell dont I just shut the hell up about how goddamn great I am at driving."
They sold quite well and I travelled intensively around the world to support them (driving of course).

After a break from professional driving for some years I returned to the "scene" so to speak as a vehicle audit controller during Desert Storm. After that I retired and currently live in a space-ferrari.
I am currently next-in-line to be the stig.
But fair ****s to you for having a licence.

Wishbone Ash

dr.bollocko wrote:

Well I flew in 'Nam. Reconassaince missions, under the radar so to speak.
From there I spent a brief amount of time testing custom and mod cars for the formula 3000 series. After that I wrote numerous books on driving including "the rules of the road" "How to be pedantic when talking about driving" and "Why in the hell dont I just shut the hell up about how goddamn great I am at driving."
They sold quite well and I travelled intensively around the world to support them (driving of course).

After a break from professional driving for some years I returned to the "scene" so to speak as a vehicle audit controller during Desert Storm. After that I retired and currently live in a space-ferrari.
I am currently next-in-line to be the stig.
But fair ****s to you for having a licence.

I think you need to learn to relax. Your aggression is even apparant in your posts.

PS - I never claimed to be a good driver even with all the categories. I think it would be arrogant to do so. There are very few good drivers out there. Many of those killed each year on our roads probably thought they were good drivers. I'm probably average but my patience is good and I'm a calm person and that's important.

dr.bollocko

Theres no agression implied, I was merely making you look at your post from the eyes of a mere mortal, not a driving titan.
I think you need to tell other drivers what they are doing wrong and patronise people some more. Thats my favourite part of the whole forum.
*love it!*

Wishbone Ash

dr.bollocko wrote:

I think you need to tell other drivers what they are doing wrong and patronise people some more. Thats my favourite part of the whole forum.

But those who utilise the Motors Forum are probably more tuned-in that the incompetent drivers. They will be in the 'After Hours' forum. You're preaching to the converted here.

knipex

There is no question but the standard of driving in Ireland is terrible. Probably the worst in the EU. I have driven in most european countries, the US, Canada, Mexico, and Aisa.

We are better than alot of places but if you compare us to Our European neighbours we Suck.

The standard of our roads and signage although improving also lags behind our neighbours.

These two facts combined are the cause of the carnage on our roads.

I cannot count the amount of times I have seen people miss their off ramp and either brake hard and cross 2 lanes of traffic to scrapre in or pull in and reverse back.
People who think that once you reach the end of the on ramp you just pull out irrespective of your speed.
People who cannot use roundabouts.
People who cannot parallel park.
Lane changers and lane hoggers.

The funny thing is none of these are covered in the test.

The driving test needs to be totaly overhauled. The high failure rate is not because the test is hard (its not) its because the standard of tuition sucks.

Everyone should have to resit the test every 10 years.

Driving instructors should have to pass an exam and be monitored.
Pass and failure rates should be published for each instructor.

In parallel with this the road structure needs to be looked at. Signage improved, road desing improved and someone somewhere should sit down and look at the disasters some of the new roads turned out to be.

A dual carridge way around Limerick with a bloody roundabout in the middle.
A bypass in Nenagh that is about to be bypassed because it is single carridgeway.
A single carridgeway bypass for Croom while the NDP states there will be a motorway between Limerick and Cork..


Somebody needs to put some overall planning into put roads.

Wishbone Ash

knipex wrote:

Probably the worst in the EU

knipex wrote:

if you compare us to Our European neighbours we Suck.

Spain, Portugal and Greece come to mind!

.

knipex wrote:

People who cannot use roundabouts.

Lane changers and lane hoggers

The funny thing is none of these are covered in the test.

???? They are certainly covered in the Finglas Test Centre.

deman

nevf wrote:

Bloody Well Said!
My brother was a provisional for about 12months, his driving was excellent, however he had a tendancy to speed, but he was a ver sensible driver at that time. He had many close accidents.

These accidents were caused by idiotic drivers. Let me give you an example(I was always a passenger so i saw everything). on a tight road which we live on with many corners. there is briors sticking out on the road where the co. council c.b.a fixing. A driver(usually female, not being racist) would refuse to let her car near these briors and so would stay onto the middle of the road and/or refuse to stop to let our car past....

...Other one would include the urban areas, in Westport, we have an unusual traffic system where some streets are one-way. The markings are usually on the road or on signs, but many were faded and tourists with cars never saw the instructions on the sign/road, they would pull straight out in front of you in the wrong way, or else they would be looking at shops on the way up the street, then take a wrong turn and near crash.....

Goverments are to blame also for their handling. Time we stopped blaming Gardaí....

Hilarious post! When you're old enough to drive a car yourself and finally get to see other towns besides Westport, then maybe others will take your advice seriously.

Basically, the problem here is the Government.
1. The Gards are seriously underfunded to do their jobs right when it comes to road policing.
2. The road infrastructure is a joke here. Ireland is now the second richest country in the world (appartently) so why don't they (the Government) spend more on improving the infrastructure. I'm NOT talking about the quality of the surface but by removing dangerous bends and junctions, accidents would be lessened.
3. Get rid of this backlog of provisional drivers by employing more testers. And make tests more comprehensive like in Europe ie. night driving, motorway/dual carriageway driving.
4. Raise the driving age to 18 like everywhere else in Europe.