He was in the wrong, yeah?

Cianos

I just wanted to ask about a minor incident that happened the other day. As I was driving there was a car parked on the right hand side of the road at the kerb. Coming towards me was a truck. I presumed the truck would slow down as the obstruction was on his side, so I maintained my speed. However the truck kept on going so that we passed right where the car was. I had to pull real tight to the kerb and my wheels scraped off it.

I know I definately should have slowed down anyway (and thats what I'll always do in the future), because you never know what will happen, but I just wanted to confirm that he was in the wrong. As he shouted out his window it seems he thought otherwise:rolleyes:

Shaybo

If he was on your side of the road he was in the wrong.

colm_mcm

It seems the truck would have got by whether you had scraped your wheels off the kerb or not. but at the same time, he shouldn't have overtaken the parked car until you had passed. If you had mounted the path and hit a pedestrian, it'd be the trucks fault as he had crossed over the white line (?) and caused you to swerve to avoid him.

Cianos

colm_mcm wrote:

It seems the truck would have got by whether you had scraped your wheels off the kerb or not. but at the same time, he shouldn't have overtaken the parked car until you had passed. If you had mounted the path and hit a pedestrian, it'd be the trucks fault as he had crossed over the white line (?) and caused you to swerve to avoid him.

There was no white line but I do know it was quite tight between the car and the truck, and the truck and I (and obviously me and the kerb). A lesson learnt, I'm definately not going to put my trust in the other driver again.

johnnyrotten

If his side of the road is obstructed he should give way to you and you should give him a little wave as a matter of courtesy:)

cormie

:rolleyes:

The only case where you would have been in the wrong is if he was already doing the manouver before you came along.

Wishbone Ash

cormie wrote:

The only case where you would have been in the wrong is if he was already doing the manouver before you came along.

I'd go with that cormie.

A truck is obviously much larger, longer and slower than a car. It is also more difficult to manoeuvre around a parked obstacle. A truck driver needs to read the road ahead at all times, something that very few car drivers do. When learning to drive a truck you are taught that you must take up your position in the centre of the road as early as possible when meeting an obstacle and make other drivers aware of your intentions. You are also taught that, as a car is much smaller and easier to handle, you should make the car driver do most of the work provided it is safe to do so.

If I were meeting that truck while driving a car, I would have slowed down and allowed him to finish his manoeuvre. It would only take me a few seconds to regain my position and everyone would be happy. I am a part time truck driver so perhaps you could say I'm a little biased but there you go.

Shaybo wrote:

]If he was on your side of the road he was in the wrong.

A very generalised statement to make Shaybo. There are many reasons why he may have legitimately been on the other side of the road. I take it you are not in the legal profession.

Shaybo

Wishbone Ash wrote:

I'd go with that cormie.

A truck is obviously much larger, longer and slower than a car. It is also more difficult to manoeuvre around a parked obstacle. A truck driver needs to read the road ahead at all times, something that very few car drivers do. When learning to drive a truck you are taught that you must take up your position in the centre of the road as early as possible when meeting an obstacle and make other drivers aware of your intentions. You are also taught that, as a car is much smaller and easier to handle, you should make the car driver do most of the work provided it is safe to do so.

If I were meeting that truck while driving a car, I would have slowed down and allowed him to finish his manoeuvre. It would only take me a few seconds to regain my position and everyone would be happy. I am a part time truck driver so perhaps you could say I'm a little biased but there you go.



A very generalised statement to make Shaybo. There are many reasons why he may have legitimately been on the other side of the road. I take it you are not in the legal profession.

The legal profession? Not likely, I have some standards. What are you then? A part time trucker/part time lawyer?

I responded to a specific scenario in a specific post wheich described a situation where a truck came onto the poster's side of the road while over taking a parked car on his own side. What are the many other legitimate reasons that might have caused him to cross into oncoming traffic in that scenario?

'You are also taught that, as a car is much smaller and easier to handle, you should make the car driver do most of the work provided it is safe to do so'

And we're supposed to trust a lorry driver's jugdement as to when it's safe to do so? Forgive me if I don't. At least three times between Skerries and the Julianstown exit on the M1 yesterday afternoon I, and other car drivers, had to brake hard from 75mph when idiot truck drivers pulled out at 60mph to pass out one of their brethern labouring along at 55mph ahead of them. If there were no serious incidents it was down to the car drivers alertness rather than the judgement of the lorry driver that it was safe.

This statement goes a long way to explaining the selfish driving of truck drivers in this country. Never mind the car drivers, we're bigger.

gerrycollins

"the only illegaility here would have been if the lorry had crossed over the white line onto your side of the road" i bielieve that has been established but legailitity sometimes contradicts common sense

also the first come first serve attitude should not exist here as when we are driving around happy in our day its the other driver we should worry about because we all not phsyic and we dont know what he/she is going to do so a bit of courtsey goes a long way here folks im sure you will agree

the op also has figured out not to be so brazen again when facing an on coming truck in a similar situation, we learn something new everyday dont we(ps thats not aimed at anyone just a comment)

im afraid wishbone that everyone is not taught how to drive a truck so how are we to know what best practise or normal operating procedures are with a truck, the only advice i can give as a car driver is they are bigger and can make mince out of most cars on the road so extreme caution should be observed around trucks at all time no matter what the scenario is

Day-wanna-wonga

colm_mcm wrote:

If you had mounted the path and hit a pedestrian, it'd be the trucks fault

No it wouldn't. What a dumb statement....

colm_mcm

Day-wanna-wonga wrote:

No it wouldn't. What a dumb statement....

If you had to swerve to avoid an oncoming truck on the wrong side of the road, and mounted the path, that'd be your own fault?

theShire

i have a similar question to that of the OP. I was on the main road and a driver came out from a minor road. Both of us had obsticles on our sides of the road. I ended up reversing outta the way, shaking my head and fairly annoyed, the other driver gave me a bollocking while passing. He was fairly p**sed wit me and told me to f**k off and that he had right of way. I have a picture drawn below to show the situation. The way i see it is that I was on the main road so he should never have pulled out and caused an obstruction to me. He could clearly see me before he pulled out and by the time he had pulled out i was in a position to be able to move around my obstacle.





It really isn't something that bothers me but i just wanted to hear some opinions.

Kali

theShire wrote:

It really isn't something that bothers me but i just wanted to hear some opinions.

It doesn't make a difference that he was coming from a minor road or not.. if you arrived at the obstacle(s) first then he should have stopped and let you pass.. (and vice versa) not out of any legality, but just basic road manners.

legs11

truck was wrong, who ever was on that side of the road should have waited till u passed,

trucks IMO are a disater, get them off the road for one year and see the road deaths magically decrease. FACT

i was driving thru listowel this week and upon leaving the town a truck flying around a bend, on the wrong side of the road, like on my half, i had to drive into a drive way to avoid it, i would have turned around and gave him a bollocking if i was not in a hurry. what pric**

John R

legs11 wrote:

trucks IMO are a disater, get them off the road for one year and see the road deaths magically decrease. FACT

Yeah!!! That'd be great.

Well except for the not having any goods, sure who needs food anyways???


Post of the decade right there.

legs11

no dont be so absurd, of course we need goods, its just that half of the truck drivers havent a clue, have no manners, and if you look at the people killed in road accident over the last 10 years, alot. an awful lot in fact are incidents with trucks.

of course, it does not help with our crap road infastructure, but you get my point.. .
also i find loads of trukies are pretty young, i mean to be hauling a hgv. id say its alot harder to get a hgv licence in other countries than in ireland?

colm_mcm

legs11 wrote:

trucks IMO are a disater, get them off the road for one year and see the road deaths magically decrease. FACT

Imagine if cars and vans were banned for a year. road deaths would magically decrease too I'd imagine. FACT (albeit a fairly obvious one)

sure there are a few rogue truck drivers, but people show very little consideration to truck and bus drivers, undertaking them, overtaking them in dangerous situations, and not letting them out.

311

I always slow down for trucks ,them guys are changing gears all day ,sometimes they have to go through a rake of gears just to get away from a set of lights.

If you are crossing the road and a bloke with two heavy boxes is coming towards you ,do you head straight for him or move out of his way??

colm_mcm

_Brian_ wrote:

If you are crossing the road and a bloke with two heavy boxes is coming towards you ,do you head straight for him or move out of his way??

I usually go straight for him, then swerve out of the way at the last minute.

Victor

theShire wrote:

Aside from the green car increasing in size ...

It would appear that he has passed one of the obstacles and should have been let go first, seeing as if both of you pass both obstacles, nobody would get anywhere.

theShire

Victor wrote:

Aside from the green car increasing in size ...

It would appear that he has passed one of the obstacles and should have been let go first, seeing as if both of you pass both obstacles, nobody would get anywhere.

Sorry about the crude drawing- is was done quickly!

I was at the position indicated by the red box before the other car had moved out onto the main road. By the time i had reached the obstacle on my side, he had just pulled out! I would have thaught that he should have remained where he was until the road was clear for him. He could see me coming!

Wishbone Ash

theShire wrote:

Sorry about the crude drawing- is was done quickly!

Crude drawing?? I thought it was very good. I wouldn't have a clue how to draw something for a posting.

(apologies for going off topic)

Bogger77

colm_mcm wrote:

If you had to swerve to avoid an oncoming truck on the wrong side of the road, and mounted the path, that'd be your own fault?

Yes.
As
a) were not doing a safe speed at which you were able to stop.
b) you hitting a pedestrian on the footpath is wrong.
c) mounting a footpath while taking evasive action is very dangerous driving. If you cannot come to a stop on your half of the road, you are responsible.

Only way, imo, that you could say it's the truck's fault would be if it hit you, causing you crash on the footpath.

Why do people think that once you are over the white line, you are in the wrong? Where there's an obstruction on one side of the road meaning that a road legal sized vehicle cannot proceed without crossing the line, they are allowed to cross the line and proceed with caution.(within the usual rules of the road framework).

colm_mcm

I suppose it depends on how far out the truck was. obviously in this instance there was enough room for both vehicles to pass without the OP having to scrape his wheels.

Re: "Where there's an obstruction on one side of the road meaning that a road legal sized vehicle cannot proceed without crossing the line, they are allowed to cross the line and proceed with caution"

That may be, but as the driver of a truck, overtaking an obstruction while there is oncoming traffic without slowing down is not proceeding with caution. it's using the size of the truck to bully car users into slowing right down or stopping so that you can proceed.

BrianD3

Where there's an obstruction on one side of the road meaning that a road legal sized vehicle cannot proceed without crossing the line, they are allowed to cross the line and proceed.

As long as they yield to oncoming traffic. In the case of the OP, it appears that the truck did not yield.

If you cross a continuous (or broken for that matter) white line to pass an obstruction and collide with oncoming traffic you are in the wrong and will be held liable for any damage. If the obstruction was due to a vehicle parked illegally it's possible that the driver of that vehicle might be held partly to blame also.

Bogger77

BrianD3 wrote:

As long as they yield to oncoming traffic. In the case of the OP, it appears that the truck did not yield.

If you cross a continuous (or broken for that matter) white line to pass an obstruction and collide with oncoming traffic you are in the wrong and will be held liable for any damage. If the obstruction was due to a vehicle parked illegally it's possible that the driver of that vehicle might be held partly to blame also.

That's according to the OP, who managed to hit the kerb.

Re: crossing white line, I personally know of a case where a bus driver was forced to drive over the white line, broken line, on a standard sub urban street, ie parking allowed. road not 26 ft(16ft for driving lanes + 10 ft wide for parking), another driver who was on their side hit the bus. Their was room for the other driver to move to and stop, but they chose to keep moving. They were charged, and prosecuted for dangerous driving, and their insurance paid out on the buses damages. As the driver of the bus said to me, were they blind not see a 16ft High, nearly 8 foot wide, Green bus coming towards them.

Rules of the road, and the law both imply that road users use common sense, and the OP didn't use theirs. They assumed the actions of another driver, who give no signal of intent. Whose was in the wrong?

ps, I love the way you didnt quote my full sentence, where I said "proceed with caution".

BrianD3

Bogger77 wrote:

Re: crossing white line, I personally know of a case where a bus driver was forced to drive over the white line, broken line, on a standard sub urban street, ie parking allowed. road not 26 ft(16ft for driving lanes + 10 ft wide for parking), another driver who was on their side hit the bus. Their was room for the other driver to move to and stop, but they chose to keep moving. They were charged, and prosecuted for dangerous driving, and their insurance paid out on the buses damages. As the driver of the bus said to me, were they blind not see a 16ft High, nearly 8 foot wide, Green bus coming towards them.

Was the bus driver so blind that he couldn't see a car coming towards him. The only way I can see the car driver being held anyway liable in that case
is if
-he was speeding/not able to stop in the distance he could see to be clear on his own side of the road
-he positioned his vehicle incorrectly
-if the bus was stationary at the time of the crash.

Rules of the road, and the law both imply that road users use common sense, and the OP didn't use theirs. They assumed the actions of another driver, who give no signal of intent. Whose was in the wrong?

What are you on about saying the OP didn't use his "common sense". It sounds from his original post that both he and the truck driver could see each other coming. There was an obstruction on the trucks side of the road. The car driver assumed that the truck would not swerve around the obstruction into the face of oncoming traffic. A perfectly valid assumption. Also the OP was also under no obligation to scrape his wheels off the kerb to make room for the truck.

If you are driving on a main road do you slam on your brakes and come to a halt every time you see a car waiting to turn out of a side road. Because it's the same principle. Vehicles coming out of side roads should yield to those on a main road. Also vehciles overtaking obstructions should yield to oncoming traffic. It's pretty simple.

ps, I love the way you didnt quote my full sentence, where I said "proceed with caution".

You seem to have forgoten that you edited your post to include that text. I was responding to your original unedited post.

danger_mouse_tm

I am truck driver. I sympathise with the driver that damaged his wheels on the kerb when the truck came towards him on the wrong side of the road. It's not an easy job being a truck driver in ireland with narrow roads, poor parking etc the list is endless! A few things i have observed during the course of my career: At the lesson stage i was shown how to "steal the road" correctly. As pointed out on an earlier posting, you must pick your line early. there's no point driving right up to the hazzard and then swearving out. You will use more road than you have to, especially if you have a trailer to bring with you. I am guessing that the truck that forced you to clip your wheels was a rigid driver. Otherwise known as a "glorified van driver"! I find these guys driving 8 wheeler tipper trucks are the worst for bullying their way around our roads. I have always been told by my instructor that when i have to take the wrong side of the road and "push traffic" that's coming against me, to "proceed with caution". The tighter the situation - the slower the speed. Use indicators. Drive with your dipped headlights on all the time. This will draw attention to your vehicle. One of the biggest things that i have noticed since i started doing 3000k per week behind the wheel was that most drivers are just not concentrating. Remember OAP!! Obervation Anticipation Planning. We are just going to have to watch out for these truck drivers with the heavy right foot, that have been driving all day and just dont have their mind on the professional skills needed to hgv drive in this country...

Vegeta

danger_mouse_tm wrote:

I am truck driver. I sympathise with the driver that damaged his wheels on the kerb when the truck came towards him on the wrong side of the road. It's not an easy job being a truck driver in ireland with narrow roads, poor parking etc the list is endless! A few things i have observed during the course of my career: At the lesson stage i was shown how to "steal the road" correctly. As pointed out on an earlier posting, you must pick your line early. there's no point driving right up to the hazzard and then swearving out. You will use more road than you have to, especially if you have a trailer to bring with you. I am guessing that the truck that forced you to clip your wheels was a rigid driver. Otherwise known as a "glorified van driver"! I find these guys driving 8 wheeler tipper trucks are the worst for bullying their way around our roads. I have always been told by my instructor that when i have to take the wrong side of the road and "push traffic" that's coming against me, to "proceed with caution". The tighter the situation - the slower the speed. Use indicators. Drive with your dipped headlights on all the time. This will draw attention to your vehicle. One of the biggest things that i have noticed since i started doing 3000k per week behind the wheel was that most drivers are just not concentrating. Remember OAP!! Obervation Anticipation Planning. We are just going to have to watch out for these truck drivers with the heavy right foot, that have been driving all day and just dont have their mind on the professional skills needed to hgv drive in this country...

great post...the more people with this attitude the better

Victor

danger_mouse_tm wrote:

At the lesson stage i was shown how to "steal the road" correctly. .

Isn't it "take command of the road"?