Idiot

Victor

http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2006/0826/

Victor

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0825/luas.html

Queen St reopens after tram and van collided
25 August 2006 20:27

Queen St in Dublin has reopened following an earlier crash between a vehicle and a Luas tram.

However, Luas Red Line services are still running only between Tallaght and Blackhorse.

The Luas operator, Veolia Transport, had said it expected to resume a full service later this evening .

The accident happened on the Red Line at the Queen Street junction just after 3.30pm when a van collided with a tram.

The tram driver was taken to hospital as a precaution but all passengers escaped unhurt.

Queen Street, which is in Dublin's north inner city, was closed off after the collision.

Karoma

wow. Truly this warrants a :rolleyes:

Ruu_Old

How many vehicles have collided with the Luas since it started?:)

dazberry

There is a very good picture on the front of the Indo:
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/frontpagepdfs/2006/14568.pdf (or see attached image).

D.

Chris_533976

Impatient buggers trying to cut in front of the tram :rolleyes:

bryanw

dazberry wrote:

There is a very good picture on the front of the Indo:
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/frontpagepdfs/2006/14568.pdf (or see attached image).

D.

Looks like the garda has a little tear in his eye - the poor Luas

Capt'n Midnight

The dazberry picture says 13 so far this year, amazing to see it derailed by a light truck.

about insurance, has the luas been able to claim in most of the cases ?

BrianD

wow! The van driver must have really sailed through the lights with the tram giving it a fair shunt. I assume the point of impact was somewhere within the yellow box?

Tarabuses

We don't seem to hear what happens to these idiots after the accidents. Are they charged in court or is there some other means of dealing with them?

It appears that the Luas driver involved in yesterday's crash was taken to hospital on a stretcher. Any chance that the van driver was taken away in handcuffs?

daymobrew

Tarabuses wrote:

We don't seem to hear what happens to these idiots after the accidents. Are they charged in court or is there some other means of dealing with them?

I would love to see the idiot's insurance company having to pay for the damage to the tram. Bye bye to the No Claims Bonus.
I'm thinking of writing to Kelkin to ask them what they plan to do, especially because of the massive traffic disruption caused by the driver's actions.

Maskhadov

irish drivers are the worst

ircoha

BrianD wrote:

wow! The van driver must have really sailed through the lights with the tram giving it a fair shunt. I assume the point of impact was somewhere within the yellow box?

As the van was taken down inside the yellow box, but was in the wrong, who takes the penalty?:)

MrPudding

I was in Caen in Normandy last weekend. They installed a similar system a few years ago. It is funny as the disruption was huge, like Dublin.

I was talking to some friends and they were say there have been loads of crashes since it started. No figures, purely anecdotal but I think there are always smashed when susyems like this are setup.

Their system in kind of funny. It has a single track in the middle and the tram actually runs on rubber wheels.

MrP

corktina

seems to me that the Tram has hit the truck.....I assume the crossing is controlled by lights and that the Tram cannot proceed with out the lights being in its favour....is that right....? If it is, then the truck must have jumped the lights by a huge amount; if thats not the case, maybe the Tram was at fault.....

MarkoP11

Junction is controlled by lights, there is a delay between the road light going red and the tram being given clear, that was increased to allow for people going through red lights

The tram has front and side facing CCTV so the whole incident has been caught, as far as I know with the exception of the St Stephen's Green tram on tram collision incident no tram driver has been at fault in any collision, I'm not 100% sure but I think the tram transponder system would enforce a speed reduction on approach if the lights where not favorable

Must likely scenario is tram approaching at 15-20kph, signal clears driver opens controller enters junction hits vehicle. At one high risk location the signal for the crossing will only clear after the tram has halted at the junction stop line thus forcing the tram to cross at very very slow speed to minimise possibility of collision.

People don't seem to get the concept that a 35 ton tram is going to pretty much demolish a car

Strangely two years on not one single person has been killed which makes LUAS amazingly safe by standards, as far as I know only one person came close but was thrown clear on impact

Voipjunkie

It does demonstrate the big weakness off on street rail based transport once something like this happens the whole service is gone for hours at a time.

Voipjunkie

Maskhadov wrote:

irish drivers are the worst

How do you know what Nationality the Van or Tram driver was.

Saruman

Its like that all over Europe.. Prague is a prime example... most of the trams there share the road.. however its a smaller city with much less cars because they have a much better public transport system so trams do not get caught up. As far as i know there are accidents all the time too.

Maskhadov

Voipjunkie wrote:

How do you know what Nationality the Van or Tram driver was.

Just working the percentages.. its being Dublin/Ireland and all.

spurious

In Milan, the trams belt along and do not stop for idiots. You open your door in the path of it, it will take it clean off and the city will send you a bill for the damage to the tram.

That's the way to do it.

Many drivers here seem to fail to grasp the basic fact that the LUAS cannot swerve.

Voipjunkie

Maskhadov wrote:

Just working the percentages.. its being Dublin/Ireland and all.

So you have no idea then

It being Dublin/Ireland 2006 not 1986 van driver does not mean the man or woman was Irish.

GerardKeating

Voipjunkie wrote:

It does demonstrate the big weakness off on street rail based transport once something like this happens the whole service is gone for hours at a time.

I think it more demonstrate the quality of Irish Driving.

Bob the Builder

and this guy passed his drivers test? I can driver better than that, and I'm only 14....its common logic:

Train comes, you stop, wait. Train goes, you drive ahead....Is that hard to learn

Red Alert

I don't think the tram's AVLS which integrates with the Traffic Signal Control Unit (TSCU) and the Passenger Info System (PIS) can enforce speed limits. I'm not sure if there even is Signal-Passed-At-Danger protection.

I'm fed up of idiots like this van driver. Apart from the disruption caused, the RPA/Veolia take a ****-fit about it and start implementing anal rules like the complete slowdown before platform.

johnnyrotten

Voipjunkie wrote:

How do you know what Nationality the Van or Tram driver was.

The tram driver is Irish

MarkoP11

I remember my first trip on the red luas on opening day, we tore through the city no hanging around, all the junctions cleared without the need for the driver to slow the tram thats the way it is supposed to be

Since then the light sequences are slow to clear for the tram, some enforce a stop and the speed limits have been reduced for trams through certain sections, the tram isn't at fault its the poor standard of driving in this country, I'd go further to say the public at large have little respect for the tram go down to O'Connell Street and watch people walk out infront of an oncoming tram

The 2005 Rail Safety Act defines a number of offenses relating to the obstruction or endangerment of a railway, Luas falls under that definition. On indictment the fine is up to €100,000 and or 3 years or €5000 and or 3 months for a summary conviction problem is the law only applies if the action was deliberate

Maskhadov

Voipjunkie wrote:

So you have no idea then

It being Dublin/Ireland 2006 not 1986 van driver does not mean the man or woman was Irish.

I dont want to get blow off thread here but there are still more Irish people in Dublin than foreign nationals.

4.2 million people in Ireland... 10% foreign nationals.. go figure

Tarabuses

MarkoP11 wrote:

The 2005 Rail Safety Act defines a number of offenses relating to the obstruction or endangerment of a railway, Luas falls under that definition. On indictment the fine is up to €100,000 and or 3 years or €5000 and or 3 months for a summary conviction problem is the law only applies if the action was deliberate

My point from earlier in the discussion is that we don't seem to know if such penalties have ever been imposed.

Voipjunkie

Maskhadov wrote:

I dont want to get blow off thread here but there are still more Irish people in Dublin than foreign nationals.

4.2 million people in Ireland... 10% foreign nationals.. go figure

Making bland statements about the quality of driving in Ireland because some gob****e pulls out in front of a tram is nonsense ( particularly when you don't even know if the driver in question is even Irish)

The truth is that this year 13 accidents between trams and other vehicles considering the number of people driving through the various intersections that the LUAS crosses every day this is a tiny tiny percentage and could never be seriously used as an indicator of the general populations driving standards.

And has been pointed out numerous times when trams go onto city streets this kind of thing happens all over the world it is not because we are Irish that a tiny percentage of us have an inability to drive or to drive in close to proximity to trams it is because we are human.

Irish people are as capable of driving as any other group of people we are however probably a lot less likely to be punished for out mistakes than some.

Chris_533976

Irish drivers arent as good as drivers from other countries simply because you dont have to take lessons from a qualified instructor here and the driving test is a farce.

Irish drivers are also worse because you can get your provisional licence and drive a car with no training and (realistically) no qualified driver with you, because that isnt enforced.

Maskhadov

We are one of the worst drivers in Europe. Just look at the number of fatal accidents we have on our roads every year.

DerekP11

I could go further and say that 99% of driving instruction does not include any form of training on a dualcarraigeway. The rules of the road do not refer to any form of interaction with (from a driving perspective) railway level crossings or trams. In fact the signage for trams is still not in the latest edition of the rules of the road booklet. People from counties that have no dual carraigeways can pass a test on the basis of never actually driving on one. Its not their fault, but does cause problems later on. Lack of decent roads nationwide and driving instruction complacency is the problem. This will change in the years ahead hopefully. The lack of tram signage and reference material in the rules of the road booklet is also a major disadvantage to drivers from outside the Dublin area.

That said, traffic lights are traffic lights. The time lapse between a red light for road traffic and a proceed signal for a tram is very generous. In areas of congestion, tram drivers have become very used to the line being blocked. They honk their horns in useless frustration. Key points are, Johns Road, outside Heuston, Harcourt road with the junction of Harcourt street and the now infamous Queens street. Queens street is not by any means a "fast" stretch of roadway. I use it 5 days a week. Personally, Im in no doubt that the van driver was at fault. He jumped a light very late and hit the tram. Ive seen near misses in this area very often. just my opinion.

Voipjunkie

Maskhadov wrote:

We are one of the worst drivers in Europe. Just look at the number of fatal accidents we have on our roads every year.

lack of proper law enforcement combined with piss poor planning and design of roads

if the same conditions existed in any country then the results would be the same

The fact that one van driver crashes into a tram or that 350 people are killed on our roads does not make all Irish people bad drivers.
You can of course consider yourself one of the worst drivers in Europe if you wish.

Hotblack Desiato

Voipjunkie wrote:

lack of proper law enforcement combined with piss poor planning and design of roads

if the same conditions existed in any country then the results would be the same

Perhaps. But it contributes towards our driving culture here where what is acceptable is whatever you can get away with.

I've driven (ridden, to be more accurate, on motorcycle tours) quite a bit in NI, GB, France, Germany and Spain and to a lesser extent in Belgium, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Switzerland, Italy, Austria, Liechtenstein* and Greece.

Irish drivers are easily the worst I've encountered.

*it's not possible to clock up much mileage there no matter how long you stay

Victor

Note from the Indo photo.

* Deployed airbag.
* Sacrificial damage to front of tram (plastic panels will deform, thereby saving pedestrians)
* Tram Bumpers (railway style + galvanised steel box) are at a different level to the base of the truck - one wonders if the truck had proper rails on the side.

Seth Brundle

I used to work on the corner of Jervis St & Abbey St.
Everyday, I would see plenty of occasions where people broke the lights at the junction, take illegal left or right hand turns down the tracks or stop on the yellow box junction.
I never saw an incident with the trams at this jcn but I really don't know how! The tram drivers always seemed prepared for idiots to break the traffic laws though.

darkflower

Originally Posted by Maskhadov
We are one of the worst drivers in Europe. Just look at the number of fatal accidents we have on our roads every year.

that!..is a fact and i would definitely agree.:o when will we learn?:rolleyes:

bazzer

Victor wrote:

Note from the Indo photo.


* Sacrificial damage to front of tram (plastic panels will deform, thereby saving pedestrians)

I never heard that term being used before - 'Sacrificial Damage'. Does that mean certain panels on the tram, the ones most vulnerable to damage, are designed in a way to save the rest of the structure in the event of a collision?

MarkoP11

The front has a number of panels which are clipped on, designed to act like a bumper on a car and can be replaced quite easily, that said this incident was extremely serious and almost certainly the tram spent a few days jacked up to make sure it hadn't suffered ill effects from derailment, the wheels might need re-profiling

Sadly the only way people are going to learn is the hard way and its a miracle no one has been killed, most incidents have been caught on CCTV its about time the RPA took out a TV add to show in extreme graphic detail what happens

spacetweek

bazzer wrote:

I never heard that term being used before - 'Sacrificial Damage'. Does that mean certain panels on the tram, the ones most vulnerable to damage, are designed in a way to save the rest of the structure in the event of a collision?

Also known as a crumple zone.

colly_06

That was my dad who was driving the van in that crash.

jd

colly_06 wrote:

That was my dad who was driving the van in that crash.

And what did he say about it?? That the Luas should have served to avoid him??:)

dowlingm

Caen trambus mentioned earlier:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_Guided_Light_Transit

SeanW

colly_06 must be on the pisstake.