Computer Applications Offer

J.Finn

I got offered a place in the computer applications course in DCU and I'm not sure whether I'm going to accept it. I picked it as a choice was because I saw "computer game development" in there somewhere. But to be honest, I don't know all that much about the course itself, although I've heard one or two people saying this particular course has one of the highest dropout rates in Ireland.

A lot of the stuff on the DCU website about the course is gibberish to me, too. Plus I wouldn't expect them to point out any negative points in the course.

I was just hoping that some of you nice folks who'd know a bit about the course could tell me about it. Your experience with it, experiences you've heard about it, how hard it is, how interesting/boring it is, what the different routes are like (Software Engineering and Information Systems).

My questions may sound a little vague, since I'm not too sure what exactly I want to ask. But I'd like to know what routes I could take, what career prospects the degree would have to offer, how sought after I'd be in the employment market and how likely I'd be to not wind up getting lost in the studies or failing some important exams and winding up with 4 years of my life gone and nothing to show for it.

Any and all relevant feedback is encouraged and appreciated.

Scráib

Hey J.Finn,

Well I'm not actually in CA but I know a few people doing it. CA does have a high enough drop out rate, but its reputed to be the best course of its kind in Europe so I'd say its a great degree if you stick to it. Most drop outs come after first year anyway, when some people realise that a life in IT won't agree with them!

From what I know of it I'll say this: Its an all-round good course, but be prepared to work because if you don't you'll wash out very fast indeed. You do 6 months practical placement in third year and that looks good on the CV so there's a high chance of a good job when you finish. And its well rounded so you can go into game design when you finish too, I think!

phreak

J.Finn wrote:

I got offered a place in the computer applications course in DCU and I'm not sure whether I'm going to accept it. I picked it as a choice was because I saw "computer game development" in there somewhere. But to be honest, I don't know all that much about the course itself, although I've heard one or two people saying this particular course has one of the highest dropout rates in Ireland.

Not sure where you saw "computer game development". The only parts really that are related to games are AI in 3rd year and Computer Graphics in 4th year.

What did you have on your cao above Computer Applications? were they computer science degrees or something unrelated?

Smellyirishman

If your into computing in general it's a great course, I have gotten everything I wanted out of it so far (going into 3rd year) , there is some filler in there like the extra choices in first year but it's to be expected I guess.

The course does not do any game programming modules in itself although this is just an extraction away from the concepts you will learn in the modules and if your serious about it then you can present games for your 3rd or 4th year project (or do it in your spare time :eek:). There are not many (if any) full on game dev courses in Ireland (maybe one in ballyfermot, and some country ones I think) but I would argue that a degree in computer science and then going on to learn about game dev would be much more beneficial than just a 100% game dev course.

Em, what else, I don't really know what to tell you. If your interested in computing and programming in general then I would say it's a great course, not very hard and fairly interesting (there is some awful ****e in there too though). A lot of the dropout issues stem from people just saying "Oh, 300 points, I got that and I chat on bebo so must like computers, sign me up". Anyone who started the course with a genuine interest in computers is still there (more or less). I have not found the course too hard as of yet, always have to do a little more work for the maths orientated aspects but nothing that a week or two of cramming doesn't solve and I have yet to fail anything. I do attend lectures year round though (slacking when it comes to exams and assignments though of course) and work on assignments.

I choose the SE stream and it is roughly what I expected. I can't really explain it any better than that, I just knew what I was getting into. Programming, computer nitty gritty, "code-monkey" comments , superiority over IS folk ...That about sums it up though, if you could give a little more about what your interested in or if you have any experience then I could probably answer with a little more gusto.

gizmo

Right so, to save me typing out a big long reply I'll start with one simple question that will determine whether or not you should do CA...

Do you enjoy working with computers?

Note: Playing games is not "working" with computers.

J.Finn

phreak wrote:

Not sure where you saw "computer game development". The only parts really that are related to games are AI in 3rd year and Computer Graphics in 4th year.

It's mentioned in there once or twice. And there was one graduate that works for EA, although from what I hear about EA, that's probably not so great. Looking back, it was a pretty stupid reason to make the choice. But that was just something I saw that perked my interest, getting into computer game creation isn't my lifelong dream. It's not something I'd mind, but it's not something I'd shoot myself if I didn't get into.

phreak wrote:

What did you have on your cao above Computer Applications? were they computer science degrees or something unrelated?

I have Computer science in Trinity and UCD in there, too. Computer applications is the closest thing DCU seems to have in relation to a computer science course.

Smellyirishman wrote:

If your into computing in general it's a great course, I have gotten everything I wanted out of it so far (going into 3rd year) , there is some filler in there like the extra choices in first year but it's to be expected I guess.

I spend most of my time playing about with computers. I'd say I have a fairly decent knowledge, but in terms of coding, I don't know that much at all. The closest experience I've had would probably be playing around with HTML. :S

Smellyirishman wrote:

The course does not do any game programming modules in itself although this is just an extraction away from the concepts you will learn in the modules and if your serious about it then you can present games for your 3rd or 4th year project (or do it in your spare time :eek:). There are not many (if any) full on game dev courses in Ireland (maybe one in ballyfermot, and some country ones I think) but I would argue that a degree in computer science and then going on to learn about game dev would be much more beneficial than just a 100% game dev course.

Yeah. Most computer-game related courses aren't level 8 degrees. From what I understand of computer science, they offer a pretty thorough education in computer programming which I figured would always leave lots and lots of career options open. But as I said, game development isn't my lifelong goal. Although I am interested in what career prospects the degree leaves open.

Smellyirishman wrote:

Em, what else, I don't really know what to tell you. If your interested in computing and programming in general then I would say it's a great course, not very hard and fairly interesting (there is some awful ****e in there too though). A lot of the dropout issues stem from people just saying "Oh, 300 points, I got that and I chat on bebo so must like computers, sign me up". Anyone who started the course with a genuine interest in computers is still there (more or less). I have not found the course too hard as of yet, always have to do a little more work for the maths orientated aspects but nothing that a week or two of cramming doesn't solve and I have yet to fail anything. I do attend lectures year round though (slacking when it comes to exams and assignments though of course) and work on assignments.

I am really interested in getting into programming. It's just that I was never a huge fan of study. I tend to get lazy when it comes to knuckling down and I'm worried about winding up getting too hooked on partying and college life.

Smellyirishman wrote:

I choose the SE stream and it is roughly what I expected. I can't really explain it any better than that, I just knew what I was getting into. Programming, computer nitty gritty, "code-monkey" comments , superiority over IS folk ...That about sums it up though, if you could give a little more about what your interested in or if you have any experience then I could probably answer with a little more gusto.

Yeah. I like the look of SE. But I'd like to have an idea of what IS has to offer, too. Do you get a good taste of both before deciding which stream to take? Do you have any idea what you want to do after graduating?

I'm also curious about how this course is different from computer science. Or is it just in title?

gizmo wrote:

Right so, to save me typing out a big long reply I'll start with one simple question that will determine whether or not you should do CA...

Do you enjoy working with computers?

Well I don't have any experience when it comes down to trawling through lines and lines of software codes. But I've been playing around with computers for the best part of my life (although I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a gamer). But yeah, I'd be inclined to say I like working with computers. Fresh air and sunshine isn't my thing... Unless they're pixellated.

Smellyirishman

J.Finn wrote:

I spend most of my time playing about with computers. I'd say I have a fairly decent knowledge, but in terms of coding, I don't know that much at all. The closest experience I've had would probably be playing around with HTML. :S

Well, you really won't know if you will like the course until your there then probably. You might love programming or you might hate it (the whole course does not rest on programming, but it's a fairly major aspect especially in SE) and this will make or break your committment. I had done a little farting about with code before I went to college but nothing past the basics you will learn in first semester, it was still a good helper though and I knew what to expect.

J.Finn wrote:

I am really interested in getting into programming. It's just that I was never a huge fan of study. I tend to get lazy when it comes to knuckling down and I'm worried about winding up getting too hooked on partying and college life.

If your into programming you won't study it, you will just do it. Some of the maths may take a bit more effort like I said, and other areas may bore a bit and require some going over but only towards the end of semester.

If your decent with attendance throughout the year you will only need to study in the weeks prior to exams. The partying will slow down slightly then.

J.Finn wrote:

Yeah. I like the look of SE. But I'd like to have an idea of what IS has to offer, too. Do you get a good taste of both before deciding which stream to take? Do you have any idea what you want to do after graduating?

A good taste...no not really...a sample, perhaps. Even in 2nd year you share half your modules (3/6). You will have some idea of what to expect from each but nothing definite (and choosing either is not a finite thing either in regards to career path). I dunno what IS people do, Data Warehousing and drawing with crayons are the only things I seem to remember them describing.

I have no idea what I really want to do after I graduate but I know my options are wide and varied.

J.Finn wrote:

I'm also curious about how this course is different from computer science. Or is it just in title?

I couldn't really tell you because obviously I don't do the other courses, but I think it's more hands on, more relevant and practical. They are effectively the same things though, only ours has a unique name!

J.Finn wrote:

Well I don't have any experience when it comes down to trawling through lines and lines of software codes. But I've been playing around with computers for the best part of my life (although I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a gamer). But yeah, I'd be inclined to say I like working with computers. Fresh air and sunshine isn't my thing... Unless they're pixellated.

You sound like 80% of the people that have made it through then.

iggyman

im sorry if i seem to be hijacking your thread..but i was actually coming into the dcu forum to ask about this exact same course when i saw this thread which answered most of my questions already...anyway i too seem to be just like j.finn...ive worked with computers for many years and i dont think ill ever do a year and say this is not for me..i know alot about this course and what it offers already because i have been looking into it for the last 2 years..going to shadowing days and opening days that were mainly to do with this actual course..but there is one thing that worrys me....

The maths..ive heard that anyone who did ordinary level maths for there leaving will find it quite tough (i got a c2 by the way )..this is the main thing that kinda worrys me and im not sure whether to go with the course, because i feel that i will just drop out because of the maths..i feel that i will try do my best to get through the maths working on them every afternoon until i have a clear idea that i am able to do them..but im just wondering what is ahead of me are they really that hard if im willing to put the work in..??

Pez

Im the exact same.. I got offered CA. it was my 3rd choice. i accepted it already but now im wonderin shud i do a PLC for my first choice... but i think i mite try CA to c if i like it. and the maths is worryin me too... i did ordinary level and that was hard enough lol

iggyman

haha yeah ..but i probably could of did better in maths if i wasnt in a class that wasnt trowing pens around and shouting all the time..but its very worrying

there was actually a problem with my cao so i have to wait till second round to accept the course but i definetly have an offer they said to me..i wil try it out in anyways i suppose and plus i have the H.E.A.R access behind me which will give me support if i need it...

Pez

what's H.E.A.R? lol ..what ya gonna do if u dont like it? do u PLC?

iggyman

haha ..higher education access route its gives you extra support that normal students dont get like financially,academically, and what ever other supports there is ..

i wouldnt really say i wont like it at all like ive did the shadowing day and many other kind of things to do with the course and from what i can imagine this course seems ok for me..but if i cant keep up with it..i dont see a point in doing a plc because plc's would be really for to get into courses like these in the first place but if you can already get into one like computer applications you dont really need to do a plc at all because you must of did well in your leaving cert in the first place and are able to do many other courses in many other institutes unless obviously your using the plc just to give you a foundation for the course you will like to go into next....but if i were to drop out for some reason i would probably wait till next year to re apply to a more easier computer programming type course and do that or probably get an apprentice if it comes to that

gizmo

Right then, in both your cases, since you want to do a course in computers then I can thoroughly recommend CA as one of the best if not the best in the country.

Regarding game development courses, both I and all of the people I know already in the industry will agree that doing a general computer science degree and then specialising afterwards with perhaps a masters is the best course. That way if you find game dev not to your liking you always have the other skills you learned during your degree to fall back on.

Regarding the Maths, well I won't lie to you, they will require work however if you go to the lectures and tutorials and keep your head down you should get past it just fine. The main reason people find first year maths hard is that it is a yearly module so at the end of the year you are examined on everything since September which is contrary to the other semester based modules. Hence its important to always keep on top of the workload and revise what you have been working on throughout the year.

Anything else?

iggyman

well you answered that nicely for me.. thanks

well i will really work hard to get though it..cause i realy like working with computers and wanta work with them when i am finished college and cant really see any other way to go for me..so your saying even with a C in ordinary maths in my leaving cert i can get through the maths fine if i jus keep my head down and go to all of the lectures and stuff throughout the year...?

Call Me Jimmy

If you have a lash at the maths questions each week and go to most of your tutorials you will do excellently.

Good luck with that tho...

DublinWriter

First of all, I'm hearing alarm bells when you say a lot of the stuff on the prospectus was gibberish to you and that you also want to get into game programming.

Be aware that everyone your age wants to get into game development, the competition is enormous and very little game development is done in Ireland.

I'm very cynical about colleges that put game development as a module in their general I.T. courses, as to me it looks like way of drawing more bods into IT BSc programmes with rapidly falling take-up rates.

Secondly, I'd warn you about I.T. in general. Having over 18 years experience in I.T. For reasons too many and various to go into, I can't say I like the way it's going as a general profession, and if I had a chance to do it all again, I wouldn't have picked I.T.

OP - I'd think long and hard about what you really want to do.

gizmo

Yes but the game development industry is definitly on the up in this country, I wouldn't be too negative about it tbh.

I'm also very surprised with your warnings as to a career in IT. Everyone I know who has followed this path is in a stable job with a nice wage and most of them seem very happy with their work.

thegoth

Hi All,

I graduated serveral years ago with BSc Hons in Computer Science, and have been working since.

Let me just say this. If you like Maths, Physics, and have a logical mind, then give the course a go. Dont let the word "Applications" fool you in the course name. Its nearly all programming. and Maths.

They are no jobs worth spreaking about in this country in Games Dev, and there will not be in the near future. Game companies only take the best of the best programmers. Once you start programming, you will see why.

They are not that many GOOD IT jobs out there. Alot of crapy ones. Difficult to get a good break and get into a good company. Luckily I did, but a friend of mine who graduated last year with a 2.1 cannot even get into Dell, answering the phone !!!!

These are facts

DublinWriter

thegoth wrote:

They are not that many GOOD IT jobs out there. Alot of crapy ones. Difficult to get a good break and get into a good company. Luckily I did, but a friend of mine who graduated last year with a 2.1 cannot even get into Dell, answering the phone !!!!

These are facts

Those indeed are the facts. I know quite a few I.T. grads from last year who are still doing helpdesk duty for clients of various agencies. And when I say Helpdesk duty, I mean Level 1 Helpdesk, basically answering the phone and keying the details.

When I started in I.T., almost every medium to large company employed programmers as most ran their own in-house developed bespoke software.

Nowadays everything is outsourced.

Although the fluid nature of I.T. can attract many, it can be a major pain in the nads as you get older. Basically companies will bend over to whatever Microsoft and Gartner tell them that they should be doing, and if you work in a technical track in I.T., this means basically relearning your job every five years.

While this may seem a fantasic challenge in your 20's, it fast becomes tiresome in your 30's, hell-on-a-stick in your 40's, and downright impossible in your 50's.

gizmo

thegoth wrote:

They are no jobs worth spreaking about in this country in Games Dev, and there will not be in the near future. Game companies only take the best of the best programmers. Once you start programming, you will see why.

Quite untrue I'm afraid, there are several companies who are doing extremely well for themselves and couple more which will be opening up within the next year or so. As I said, the industry over here is growing, it may be slow but its definitly on the up. As for the standard of programmers found in the industry, yes this is true for the most part however if you want to get in then you need to be up there with the best and you need to have a great portfolio behind you to show off your talents.

thegoth wrote:

They are not that many GOOD IT jobs out there. Alot of crapy ones. Difficult to get a good break and get into a good company.

This is the same with any career choice, if you want a good job then you better be damn good at what you do. Trying to disuade people away from such a choice becuase its tough isn't extremely helpful in my opinon.

Pez

physics? that's in the course... ? ? ?? ?

Cy_Revenant

Pez wrote:

physics? that's in the course... ? ? ?? ?

In first year physics is an optional module, not part of the core coursework.

As far as I know there isn't any major physics after that, though I've only completed first year, so my word is not as reliable as Gizmo's.

BlackWizard

I'm heading into 3rd year in IS. I suck at maths. But if you put the effort in you
can make it through okay.

Unfortunately, if IS is your thing then you will have to put up with the code monkeys
for a few years because we share some modules.

You wont get a full taste of Information Systems for a while. In fact I'm going
into third year and the only taste of IS that I have got was talking to a
lecturer casually and in work this summer. We just seem to be thought the tools
of the trade and not the trade itself atm.

Hard work, long days and great friendships. Welcome to Comp App.:cool:

edit: And remember im only going into 2nd year so Ive only half the degree done. It
could be a pile of ****e!! ha ha

gizmo

Yup, there are two optional modules for Physics in Semester One and Two in First year. If you have done Physics for your LC the I recommend you do at least Physics 1 as the course content is nearly identical. If you havn't done it before then I would still recommend it as an option as its well thought, has nice amout of practical work, light lecturing hours and its rather interesting.

thegoth

Hi,

When I said that they are not that many GOOD JOBS in IT, I was not trying to put people off. Like I said. I was just stating a fact.

Regarding physics. Dont worry about having to do the subject. Its generally used as an indicator of wheather you will like programming or not. Like I said, its an INDICATOR. Not a rule.

Regarding games programming. Even if they are some games houses here. I must stress to anyone thining about doing a computer science course in order to make games, that game programming is VERY tough. These game houses will have the best of the best programmers. Game programming is nearly all maths and physics, with some graphic designers thrown in.

Try this online Aptitude Test. Its seems accurate.

http://www.computeraptitude.com/

Hope this helps

Michael

Smellyirishman

BlackWizard wrote:

edit: And remember im only going into 2nd year so Ive only half the degree done.

Maybe you're the one that needs to remember! You're going into 3rd year

About the maths, I got an A1 in pass maths and have not had too many issues with the maths. Like I keep stressing, attending lectures, going to tutorials, some actual work a week or two before the exams and you should be OK. It may need more work than that, I don't know how proficient you are so don't take my word for gold dust.

BlackWizard

Dont listen to smelly, he has always been good at math.;) The math is bitch hard
but if you put in the effort and go to the MLC then its not too hard to get about
40 in math.

Yeah 3rd year.. it was late when I posted that.

iggyman

well youve summed it up quite well lads..i kinda get the whole thing now..

well i know i will try hard to do the maths ..because i do actually like maths but im just not at good at them

you said a 40 is that marked out of 100 or 50 or what?? cause i dont know much bout these college grades at all..

i know there will be jobs out there if i finish i dont realy mind if most of them are crap cause i will just work my way up i suppose like i would do in any other profession..so i dont think thats going to change my mind really..im doing the course mainly cause i would like to learn how to programme and not to work with games even doh i like them..and wouldnt mind working with them its not the whole reason why i am intereste in doing the course..

the main reason i posted was just to see could someone with my level in maths actually get through the course..and turns out it is possible..i think??
actually has anyone known anyone who got c in pass maths in leaving and completed this course is is near enough to end..??

Cy_Revenant

iggyman wrote:

you said a 40 is that marked out of 100 or 50 or what?? cause i dont know much bout these college grades at all..

Like most marking systems, its marked out of 100% :rolleyes:

iggyman

oh rite..and is a 40% pass that good like or does it matter towards your final grade at the end of the year/course ??

like if i kept getting 40% in every subject for the four years would that make a difference to my final grade at end of course or is it just to let me carry on to the next semester..

Smellyirishman

You can keep getting 40 until 4th year. Once your in 4th year grades change the face of your degree. Although scoring higher in exams up until 4th year wil allow for compensation, better reasoning if you do fail something, possible position as a tutor etc.... but just for getting through the first 3 years or indeed all 4, you just need 40%. Although it's the lowest you can get through on (without compo) so it's not really a good result now is it!

iggyman

haha not really no..ill try me best to get as much as possible ..but 40% sounds alri to acheive trough out the course..hopefully wont fail much..well that summed it up great for me..

Cheers

lego

I think that there are still places available in the CA course for anyone who satisfies the min. entry requirements. (6 LC subject passes to include at least 2 at honours level, 300 points, C3 in ordinary maths or D3 in higher level and a pass in either Irish or English)

http://www.cao.ie/vacant_places/courses.htm