sale of second hand helmets on boards

subway

just seen a helmet for sale on adverts.ie [boards.ie's for sale section]
from the description the helmet is obviously used and, in my opinion, cannot be guaranteed as safe on the road.

would you guys agree with this?
if we had the general support of the bikes forum i think we could go to the "for sale" mods to have second hand helmet sales banned.

it might just save someones life.

babybundy

i'd never buy a second hand helmet and when i am getting rid of an old one i always cut it once or twice so it camt be used

madrab

yeah that helmet looks like a piece of crap

KTRIC

I personally put the in the same catagory as condoms. Helmets and condoms are personal protection. Would YOU use a second hand condom ?


Think of all those lovely skin infections you could get whilst using a second hand lid.

Krusty_Clown

I agree entirely, with a small amount of lee-way..

On another forum I frequent, you get regular sales of motorcycle helmets which have been worn once, and were found to be uncomfortable, or too noisy etc..

In these cases, if you can trust the sellers, you can get some real bargains, if you know that a particular helmet for sale will suit your needs. I say 'Nay' to second hand, but 'Yay' to 'new but worn once' type of sales.

seamus

Buyer beware.

Boards.ie as a conduit for the advertisement of these sales isn't liable for the quality of the merchandise, because the sales are private. If a person wishes to buy a second hand helmet, then why should they be stopped?

Idleater

seamus wrote:

Buyer beware.

Boards.ie as a conduit for the advertisement of these sales isn't liable for the quality of the merchandise, because the sales are private. If a person wishes to buy a second hand helmet, then why should they be stopped?

I agree completely, Buyer beware on all second hand sales.

By the reasoning in this thread, for example, cars should also not be sold because they may have been involved in an accident, Cut n Shut (???) etc... How can you prove otherwise???

Each for sale item should be merrited its own worth. Then the savings value against a new item versus the quality of the goods.

L.

KTRIC

Is the sale of second hand knickers aloud on adverts.ie ??

subway

i dont think its in the same league as second hand cars there fellas.
its a piece of safety equipment whose history is completely unverifiable.

the slightest drop can render a helmet completely useless.
they are a use once and replace item,
much like a condom as stated above.
just because i say its safe doesnt mean it is,
im biased as im trying to sell it.

the main market for second hand helmets are people who are new to biking and trying to save a few shillings.
many new bikers have no idea of the dangers of buying a second hand helmet and the attitude of an smod of "buyer beware" for safety equipment is an absolute shame.

Tomohawk

There are plenty of boxed and expensive branded helmets on ebay that are put up by private sellers that are obviously not worn or the wrong size or an unwanted present or have 1 or 2 cosmetic scratches or were an impulse buy etc. I would have no problem with purchasing these items. Same should apply to boards.ie. But "Buyer beware". Let's not forget many "old" bikers are also trying to get a good deal ...

To follow your argument subway, why don't we ban previously owned motorbikes for sale in that case!? Or how about bikes more than say 3 years old for example!? or 1980's bikes 'cos they often use older technology? Hub brakes anyone!! Where do we draw the line

If a punter buys a 2nd-hand helmet that is "obviously used" for a rockbottom price then common sense would dictate that they are being very foolish with their own safety. God knows, there is enough information out there that motorbikes are potentially lethal!

subway

Tomohawk wrote:

To follow your argument subway, why don't we ban previously owned motorbikes for sale in that case!? Or how about bikes more than say 3 years old for example!? or 1980's bikes 'cos they often use older technology? Hub brakes anyone!! Where do we draw the line

because my argument is not that second hand items are crap,
cars, chairs, tvs etc etc etc.
as i mentioned in my previous posts, i am of the opinion that second hand helmets are inherently unsafe, and that the type of person who buys one is generally the "newer" biker
i understand that some people will disagree with me,
hence the discussion thread i have posted here.
and if possible i would request that people could stick to the topic of second hand helmets, not second hand dishwashers or some other non relevant compariosn - thanks

the point that people are selling "unwanted gifts" or "impulse buys" is moot in my opinion.
as i stated before a seller is biased towards selling the item so may be tempted to lie/blur the truth.

the idea also that we are out to get a bargain / make a quick buck is why i started the thread.
i would like to see if the boards bikers agree with me that they wouldnt buy or sell a second hand helmet.
if we wouldnt sell second hand helmets, [i wouldnt] then we woulnt need them to be sold on the site, as it would only be non-boadsies and chancers trying to sell them

as part of the "just a few scratches" argument, would you buy a helmet labelled "factory seconds" or "reject"?

zapata

subway wrote:

it might just save someones life.

I'm with 'let the buyer beware brigade' on this and I saw the state of the Black helmet recently - if someone is foolish enough to buy it then they shouldn't even be on two wheels. I bought a good as new 2nd hand helmet a while back off boards and it did the job for me until I could afford an new one. I doubt a 'new' helmet is gonna change a bikers style of driving.

Hotblack Desiato

Unfortunately it is exactly this sort of "good intentions" which leads to more and more government and EU regulation of motorcycling "for our own good"
i.e. we're seen as too stupid to make our own decisions.

We need a lot less of this sort of thing.

It's not just new riders who are capable of making what we might see as bad decisions. I see a lot of oul' fellas with lids that look like something Stanley Woods might have used. (look him up

It's their head and perhaps, for their riding style, speed, experience, head size, comfort etc. the helmet they're wearing is entirely appropriate. Whether it is or it isn't, it's their decision and it's not our place, or the government's, or boards place, to query it.

Now if you want to educate new riders about helmets and safety gear, great, but what's proposed here smacks waay too much of "we know what's best for you".

MunsterCycling

Well the poll at the top of this is telling the story of what people think, nuff said.

Idleater

MunsterCycling wrote:

Well the poll at the top of this is telling the story of what people think, nuff said.

It is indeed.

Since just before I voted against the motion support against banning such items has increased by an infinite amount
Whereas the support for banning the items has not even doubled it's tally.

That certainly is telling all right.

Telling in so far as to say that statistics can be read and turned to suit any argument.

nuff said.

Second hand motorcycles cannot be guaranteed never to have been involved in a colision (which could do untold unseen damage in stresses to the frame for example), why would these not be banned as well? This is the exact same argument as banning a second hand helmet.

Just because you or I would not do it, does not allow either of us to dictate that no one should do it.

In fact, I know many many bikers who use their old helmet that they upgraded to their more recent one to give to pillion passengers who want a spin on the back of their bike. Is that against the law? Is it morally wrong? Are they going to hell for that? What is the difference between a helmet that you upgrade because you dont like the colour any more but keep just in case and one that you decide not to keep and sell on?

L.

subway

seems to be fairly even argument for/against.
i can see what the poll says - but obviously the posts say the opposite.

@ ninja900
im not a government official telling you how to live your life,
just wanted to see if people thought it was a good idea.

@ nereid
one thing that really pisses me off is a chap with full leathers and a 600eu arai blasting along with his girlfriend in a skirt and blouse and a 40eu helmet clinging to the back.
sure, theres no law against it, but they are your responsibility.

Idleater

subway wrote:

one thing that really pisses me off is a chap with full leathers and a 600eu arai blasting along with his girlfriend in a skirt and blouse and a 40eu helmet clinging to the back.
sure, theres no law against it, but they are your responsibility.

I completely agree. Or the guy tearing down the M50 in tracksuih, runnors, and a helmet on a fireblade... Nothing illegal, but he weighed up the risks and took his chances.

I just thought of a very good analogy for the helmet buying topic:

Compare buying a second hand couriered bike to a second hand weekend only bike.

I am saying nothing against courier bikes I am merely pointing out that you would consider different things when looking at one compared to the other.

The same with helmets, you will get what you pay for and must compare the condition of the helmet to see if you want to risk it.

L.

art

ninja900 wrote:

Unfortunately it is exactly this sort of "good intentions" which leads to more and more government and EU regulation of motorcycling "for our own good" i.e. we're seen as too stupid to make our own decisions.

We need a lot less of this sort of thing. Now if you want to educate new riders about helmets and safety gear, great, but what's proposed here smacks waay too much of "we know what's best for you".

Agree with that totally. I don't know why people seem to think that Bikers in particular need to be mollycoddled in such ways.

Hotblack Desiato

I think this image explains it

I'm very dismayed (but not surprised, unfortunately) that we ourselves as riders are increasingly being infected by the same "regulate away all personal choice" disease the safetycrats are suffering from

As for the poll - who ever said boards should be run on democratic lines?
Democracy doesn't give the majority the right to remove the rights of the minority. If a minority of people on boards wish to purchase secondhand helmets at their own risk then more power to them. I doubt I'd ever buy one but that's my choice and I can afford to make it. For someone starting out on a tight budget (and that's how most of us start) a secondhand, undamaged, quality lid could be a far better choice than the alternative - a crappy cheap new lid or even an ill-fitting hand-me-down.

Interceptor

I am currently struggling with this argument. I have an Arai FV which cost £350 ten years ago. I used it for two months, never so much as put a fingerprint on it and packed it away in the attic when I sold my bike. I'm back on a bike this summer and I no longer like the colour of my old helmet and fancy a new Suomi to match my bike. Should I sell the old lid? Should I destroy it? If a learner bought it instead of a €40 lid it might be infinitely better in the event of an accident, but am I wrong to sell it in the first place?

'cptr

Hotblack Desiato

Interceptor wrote:

I used it for two months, never so much as put a fingerprint on it and packed it away in the attic when I sold my bike.

You know the history of the lid, so what on earth's the problem? Someone's going to get a good-as-new lid at a bargain price.

CJhaughey

I think all helmets have a best before date usually ten years or so.
Something to do with the foam and plastic breaking down.

sutty

Arai's have it stamped on them that the lid should be replaced after 5 years. But no longer than 7. The Arai RX 7 say no more than 5 years old and are only warrented for the first user. IE: A second owner can not be said to be protected. They also have the manufacture date on a lable in the chin strap.

Hotblack Desiato

Oops missed the ten years bit!

That's pushing it a bit. But if the lid was stored away from heat, damp, sunlight and chemicals (solvents) it's probably as good as new.

Bear in mind that anything helmet manufacturers say is (a) covering their a.s.s. (b) going to encourage you to buy a new lid as often as possible.