The lack of freedom of speech and power??

Ninners

Two days ago i read the Sunday papers from cover to cover. It was a combimation of a particular article i saw and my own personal experiance that made me question the amount of freedom of speech and the lack of power that we, as ordinary citizens have, against the both the government and big business.

If you look at the most basic areas of society like the education system, the health system and the securtity forces you must ask yourself that if you DO have a complaint or a problem against a teacher, a docter or a gaurd where do you turn? The obvious answer would be that you would confide in a friend a friend or the gardi, and in the case of the gaurds the garda ombusman, however my problem lies in the fact that if you want action taken against the above people, you hit a wall of denial.

My experiance of the health service has thought me that if your problem is not a criminal problem where the gaurds are unable to help you, you have nowhere to turn and as a result i began to think.

• If you have a bullying teacher- you may go to a parent, who does the parent go to? The principle who may as in most cases have built up a loyalty to the teaching staff
• If, as i have had, have a problem with a doctor where do you turn? The HSE? Who has ever heard of a fair and biased system of self regulation?
• If you have a problem with a graurd you go to the ombusman who can do nothing if your problem is not a SERIOUS criminal issue

Of course our area of last resort is the media. It is the one who has created awareness of terrible crimes and has paved the way for tribunals to try and establish truths but i ask you this...why must large numbers of people make their problems public in order for action to be taken??
What will happen when big business and maybe even government departments, follow in the steps of a number of irish and multi-national businesses, in threating our area of last resort with huge legal actions and solicitors letters. Where will we go to raise awareness of terrible stories regarding big business and gov. departments?? And where will we go to get action??

mcgarnicle

Right so big business and government departments are sensoring the media, dodgy teachers are protected by staff-room loyalty, dodgy doctors are protected by the HSE and dodgy guards are protected by the ombudsman. Sounds like a serious situation, do you have any evidence or even examples of this or any suggestions about how to fix it?

InFront

If you are talking about the system of self-regulation that dominates in government departments, then I agree with you. Cathy Synnott made a very good point over this on Radio 1 over the weekend.

On the other hand, if you're talking about naming and shaming, or something along those lines, without a valid investigation, then i couln't disagree with you more.

Whatever about the lack of power, lack of free speech isn't an issue. We have it by the bucketload.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

My own observation is that we only have free speech provided we speak with a majority or argue the moral argument

InFront

Sean Keevey can you give us an example of a time in life when your free speech was refused?

Thomas_S_Hunterson

InFront wrote:

Sean Keevey can you give us an example of a time in life when your free speech was refused?

Sorry i must have sounded like such a twat there, i'm not complaining, i'm just saying that if your going to ramble on about the benefits of neo-nazism, then noone's going to listen

mcgarnicle

sean_keevey wrote:

Sorry i must have sounded like such a twat there, i'm not complaining, i'm just saying that if your going to ramble on about the benefits of neo-nazism, then noone's going to listen

Nobody will listen but then again free speach doesn't require a receptive audience.

Jackie laughlin

I don't know how it will turn out but I've begun to use the ease of e-mail to complain, ask questions, apply pressure and generally challenge a few powerful institutions. They usually advertise their openness and invite comment but getting a sensible response requires many mails and infinite patience. It's fun to read the twisted, turning logic in some of the replies but I am serious. I want to see how far this can be taken. I've selected a small handful of issues and I intend to pursue them. I reckon it will be quite some time before I can report back. In the meantime perhaps others would be interested in doing likewise.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

mcgarnicle wrote:

Nobody will listen but then again free speach doesn't require a receptive audience.

I suppose what i'm trying to say, is that being ignored is to a certain extent supression of our freedom of speech, which leads us to what is essentially a paradox. If one were to force a listening ear, one would deny another one of their fundamental freedoms.

sean_keevey

sean_keevey wrote:

My own observation is that we only have free speech provided we speak with a majority or argue the moral argument

Which is line with the constitution

Article 40.6.1 "The State guarantees liberty for the exercise of the following rights, subject to public order and morality:

i. The right of the citizens to express freely their convictions and opinions.

The education of public opinion being, however, a matter of such grave import to the common good, the State shall endeavour to ensure that organs of public opinion, such as the radio, the press, the cinema, while preserving their rightful liberty of expression, including criticism of Government policy, shall not be used to undermine public order or morality or the authority of the State.

The publication or utterance of blasphemous, seditious, or indecent matter is an offence which shall be punishable in accordance with law."

http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached_files/html%20files/Constitution%20of%20Ireland%20(Eng).htm

Rock Climber

Deleted User wrote:

The publication or utterance of blasphemous, seditious, or indecent matter is an offence which shall be punishable in accordance with law."[/I]

http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/attached_files/html%20files/Constitution%20of%20Ireland%20(Eng).htm

Thats us all finished so.
Jailers throw away the key.

Jackie laughlin

There's precious little blasphemy, sedition or indecency around these days!

Nice quote of the day from google

"If mankind minus one were of one opinion, then mankind is no more justified in silencing the one than the one - if he had the power - would be justified in silencing mankind."
- John Stuart Mill

JS Mill > Irish Constitution

banaman

We have freedom of speech and to a point of association.
However how free a press/media we have is a valid topic for debate.

Given that most people's opinions are formed by information they receive via RTE, SKY, the "red-top" press and from word of mouth the quality and veracity of the information and tenor of the debate in the media is of crucial importance.

The media in Ireland is more free-minded than in some Western countries but the dominance of media ownership by a few large companies or individuals is a dangerous development.
For an example of what can go wrong look at the case of the journalists sacked by FOX TV in the States for their expose of Monsanto and Bovine Growth Hormone in the US dairy industry. (covered in the film THE CORPORATION)

http://www.foxbghsuit.com/

fly_agaric

sean_keevey wrote:

I suppose what i'm trying to say, is that being ignored is to a certain extent supression of our freedom of speech, which leads us to what is essentially a paradox. If one were to force a listening ear, one would deny another one of their fundamental freedoms.

Not really. Its like when people (on online messageboards) indignantly say they have a right to (presumably they really mean a right to voice) their opinion when they find what they say gets challenged by others.

Yeah, you have the right to voice your opinion but that right doesn't extend to immunity from other people telling you you are full of crap.

Deliberately ignoring people is also good way to tell them you don't like their opinion.