Portobello/Griffith college

Armani-style

Hello everyone,

Can someone please help me?
I have just finished the leaving cert and am wondering are griffith and/or Portobello colleges as good as Trinity or UCD to get past Blackhalls' exams?
I missed out on an LLB in NUIG by only a few points. I am wondering are these places just a rich boy way to get into law? Is it as good as going to a 'normal' college?

Thanks for your help,

John

Heyes

Yes they are both excellent colleges, i went to portobello and had a great time there, learned a lot. the smaller class sizes and approachable lectures are great. Contact the career guidance there ( info on website www.portobello.ie ) and she will provide you with the contact details for the law deparment and also how you can progress further for the law exams etc.

hullaballoo

Moved to the correct forum.

Amazotheamazing

Probably ok places to go, but graduates of more established courses will laugh at your degree behind your back. It's snobbery but what can you do.

RDMH

Don't agree with that at all, both colleges are now elligible for Kings Inns exams so snobbery should really not apply. At the end of the day, go to one of them, get qualified and work in one of the bigger firms and nobody will care where you went to college. I went to Griffith, generally very good, lecturers are generally excellent, not all of them but 99% of what I have come across.

Amazotheamazing

RDMH wrote:

Don't agree with that at all, both colleges are now elligible for Kings Inns exams so snobbery should really not apply. At the end of the day, go to one of them, get qualified and work in one of the bigger firms and nobody will care where you went to college. I went to Griffith, generally very good, lecturers are generally excellent, not all of them but 99% of what I have come across.

Should snobbery ever apply? I don't think it's a good thing but you will get people looking down on you for the course you did, particularly in law. The same thing happens to people who jump into their father's or mother's firm.

Armani-style

Why would they look down on someone who has passed Blackhall though?
Everyone passes the exact same exam to be a solicitor,so why should there be snobbery?

Anyway,are you telling me that this course is not reputable,because I need to know all you people can tell me? Should I repeat and get law in a 'normal' uni or go for one of these(forgetting that they are fee paying)

Thanks for your help,

John

maidhc

Armani-style wrote:

I am wondering are these places just a rich boy way to get into law? Is it as good as going to a 'normal' college?

That is the attitude of most people who go to "ordinary" colleges.

Certainly the standard of lecturer wouldn't be as high, e.g. the P.A.McDermotts of this world won't be attracted to such places. I know where I went to college (UCC) practically every lectuer had written at least one impressive tome or the subject of their choosing, and generally had a fantastic knowledge of the law. Most lecturers in GCD and similar will only have LLMs, which I can say with absolute certainty doesn't mean you know a whole lot (I have an LLM.... before people start slating my comments!)

Amazotheamazing

Armani-style wrote:

Why would they look down on someone who has passed Blackhall though?
Everyone passes the exact same exam to be a solicitor,so why should there be snobbery?

I think that's being pretty naive. People from established colleges will always look down on the grind colleges (a lecturers phrase, not mine), whether that's right or wrong is a separate debate, since the fact is they do.

Armani-style wrote:

Anyway,are you telling me that this course is not reputable,because I need to know all you people can tell me? Should I repeat and get law in a 'normal' uni or go for one of these(forgetting that they are fee paying)

Thanks for your help,

John

I'm sure the course is just as good, but considering the fee's, it will be slightly better off people going there. I've no idea what the craic is like. I'm surprised you'd consider repeating, a law degree is no longer needed to sit the blackhalls, why not do a degree in something else and then sit the Fe's.

Armani-style

Because you will not be prepared(unless perhaps you do a BA with nearly all legal subjects). You think I'd be better accept the BA offer even though I'm more than 100 points over the requirement than repeat?

Armani-style

Is a BALB ( BA then LLB/BCL) going to be frowned upon also,or is it just grind colleges? Or does one need to get an LLB/BCL in a recognised Uni to be 'accepted'?
Which is better to become a solicitor,an LLB or BCL? I don't know the difference.

maidhc

Armani-style wrote:

Which is better to become a solicitor,an LLB or BCL? I don't know the difference.

A BCL is generally a 3 yr degree, a LLB a 4 yr. UDC & UCC offer a BCL, UCG & TDC an LLB. I don't think it matters so long as you cover the required subjects, which they will all do.

Ava

While Griffith is excellent for FE1 prep course....Go for university degree. Its hard enough to get a decent apprenticeship.

The BA followed by LLB add-on is an excellent route into law,, the firms like the way its not just a basic law degree so asssume you're well rounded. I know a couple of people who got excellent apprenticeships as a result.

Armani-style

As far as I know, NUIG do BCL,not LLB,plus, in NUIG the course is 3 years,not four.
In Griffith they do the LLB but it is only 3 years long. Does this suggest that the course is not sufficient and that maybe they want you to have to pay for an extra year or two?

mountainyman

Economics, Politics and Law at DCU. Was 440 this year. Will be less next year as will all other courses.

Don't repeat work and enjoy the year.

MM

mountainyman

Economics, Politics and Law at DCU. Was 440 this year. Will be less next year as will all other courses.

Don't repeat work and enjoy the year.

What about Queens?

MM

Armani-style

I didn't apply

RDMH

Armani-style, lets keep it simple, the GCD or Portebello LLB will be fine, I think the GCD is better as the accrediting instution is well regarded (Nothingham Trent University). If your main concern is what law firm you are going to get into then you can hold back and hopefully get in to UCD or one of the other "top" universities, for me personally there really is no difference. With regard to apprenticships, you will find that it is difficult no matter where you went to college, some would argue that if it's between two people one who went to UCD and one who went to GCD the UCD applicant will get the job, I personally disagree, I think how well you do in blackhall place will really be the deciding factor and that will not be down to the college you attend, it will be down to the work that you put in yourself. For what it is worth, I have several friends who went to GCD part time who now work for top tier and tier two law firms, one is also a barrister, at the end of the day if you are good enough the cream will always rise to the top no matter where it started from.

The choice is yours, waste a year, repeat?? or do something that you are not interested in and only do it half hartedly, a 2:1 in that will not impress any more than a first in what you really want to do even if it is in a private college.

As for quality of lecturers, maybe you wont get the likes of Paul McDermott but you do get John Healy, Ruth Cannon also lectured in Griffith as did Sinead McGrath, all lecture in the Kings Inns and Ruth in Trinity, Cirarn Patton will give any lecturer a run for their money in Criminal and David Langwallner equally in Constitution and Juripudence, both of these also lecturer in the Kings Inns, I therefore don't think that quality is an issue.

maidhc

scorplett wrote:

From what I can see, most law courses are some lectures and a whole lot of study.

Study?

Heyes

They are good places of learning. Try to ignore the snobery.

There is actually very little snobbery in these colleges, most classes are packed with all walks of life which makes it even better.

Thirdfox

I think he may have meant the snobbery from the people of other colleges.

I would have thought that a private university has less people from a disadvantaged background?

Heyes

Thirdfox wrote:

I think he may have meant the snobbery from the people of other colleges.

I would have thought that a private university has less people from a disadvantaged background?

ah my apologise if he did.

No i actually found the opposite, it was extremely mixed which i absolutale loved.

mr.twist

not quite sure what ur points are but from what I have witnessed recently - firms are eager to offer training contracts to those with a more well rounded education- ie Business and legal studies (UCD) seems to be highly sought after. I can say that five people (this year) have gotten training contracts in all top tier (top five) frims without sitting any fe-1s- were told go get them in three sittings. So in my opinion- definately do not repeat- go and do some form of quality business/economics/ degree- then sit fe-1s. if u have points for B&L - do it. Work expreience also vital- summer job. oh Although private collages may be slightly looked down on these days (just slightly) - people have agreed that lectuers are top class and smaller classes mean greater tuition- for Fe-1 u will be just as prepared if not more prepared.

focusing

I know a few people who took the BA (Legal Science) route to the LLB in NUIG, all of whom were very happy with it. It also gives you a broader perspective than a pure law degree.

(You don't even have to add on the LLB to be a solicitor if you don't want to.)

The bigger colleges have better staff than Portabello & GCD and a much wider choice of subjects. From what I hear, they cover subjects in more depth. They also have more prestige, whether other institutions like it or not.

Just look at the respective qualifications of the staff. I've seen people straight out of a taught LLM getting lecturing jobs in UL and one of the "grind colleges". While I'm sure they're very clever, they're not at the level of qualifications you would expect for university law faculty.

You'll want to have your apprenticeship sorted before you start doing the FE1s, and that depends on how your CV looks and how well you interview as a final year student. Anyone who suggests waiting till you pass a few FE1s before looking for a firm should, I would humbly suggest, be completely ignored.

The nature of the legal profession is that you don't have to have a law degree, so don't be afraid to study something else first.

Try PMing a few people here who went to different colleges and get their perspectives on it all.

Above all, don't stress. These things work themselves out.

walrusgumble

hi, this might be a little off the discussion but i think that some of ye might help.

I have just completed a four year course in letterkenny I.T. and have obtained a BA (hons) in Legal Studies with Taxation (so i gues i a post graduaute now). I know this aint a university degree but i was always glad to shut up a few who had llb bcl ect whilst i was in dublin. we covered all the core areas which will be on the society exams. bascially da course is thought by solicitors and one of them a barrister is currently the head of the irish law teachers association (nothing to boast about he is brutal) essentially its a course for people who didn't have enough points.

any way the course gets ya prepared to be a legal secretary, legal executive and many can apply to sit the law society exams.

anyway as i said this might be off the point and if it is one someone kindly direct me to the correct thread. i am considering going to griffith. i know it is an excellent place for someone to do law as a postgraduated. i was wondering if anyone here has done the professional diploma for legal executives. is it more practical orienated, what the course like. i have checked da site but there are a few things i aint sure about.

it is just that i am finding it hard to find employment as a secretary/clerk/executive. there is no way i want to do some pitman course for secretaries especially when i.t. was covered in my course. one solicitor who interviewed me said i was over qualified for secretary and should stop wastimg time and sit da solicitor exams ( maybe he just putting me down in a nice way) but it alright for him to say go do exams. money and the difficulty of getting an appreticship are matters to worry bout.

anyway if anyone reads this i would be very much obliged if ya can help

dK1NG

focusing wrote:

Just look at the respective qualifications of the staff. I've seen people straight out of a taught LLM getting lecturing jobs in UL and one of the "grind colleges". While I'm sure they're very clever, they're not at the level of qualifications you would expect for university law faculty.

You'll want to have your apprenticeship sorted before you start doing the FE1s, and that depends on how your CV looks and how well you interview as a final year student. Anyone who suggests waiting till you pass a few FE1s before looking for a firm should, I would humbly suggest, be completely ignored.

dont know about that, to be honest! those people at "recognised" uni's with only LLMs are around years (before the job market got so competitive), and have lots of publications. nowadays, you are unlikely to get called for an interview w/o a PhD (or, at least, having submitted for viva). And those people who have been hired in the last 5-10 years w/o a PhD are now under a lot of pressure to enroll for one!
Unless, you are on about postgrads doing a few hours teaching while doing their research; But this goes on at ALL uni's, not just UL.

As for the FEs, agree wholeheartedly! You gotta start looking once 4th year begins, you mightnt get a job then but at least you'll know whats required the following year when you're doing FEs.
Whatever you do, do not wait until you pass the FEs before applying, all too often people who do that end up waiting around for a year (or two) before starting their apprenticeship at the big firms, or accept smaller, local firms rather than wait, when they really want the big 5.

Its a long slog, but thats the joys of the career path chosen.....

johnf_1540

Hi

There is no difference between the various colleges. if you were planning a career in ACADEMIC law rather than PRACTISING there might be. Excuse the caps; i think it's an important distinction. If you are planning on practising people don't care where you come from once you do the business. The only time its relevant is when you're interviewing for a firm and there should not be any difference then if you are bright and engaged. From what i can see the Griffith and Portobello approach is very professional (I got my own law degree in UCD).

so, i wouldn't hang around to repeat for the sake of perceived prestige: there are plenty of ways to add to your cv and 'rep' in the meantime by writing articles, trying to get work experience during the summers (probably unpaid unfortunately), even playing sport or doing something for your college will stand to you

Good luck with it!

servicecharge

Skip law for now. It's not worth the expense if you have to go to private college.

Get a degree in business or languages, something that you can fall back on. Then do the legal diploma in DIT.

Most firms openly admit to prefering graduates from other disciplines. They can teach you the law and like it if you can add something they don't have.

Mr Toad

The two private colleges Portobello and Griffith are recognised for the purposes of applying for entry to the Incorporated Law Society and Kings Inn.

However, in academic rankings they would be considered far below those of the established universities and esp. Trinity and UCD.

If you have the opportunity go the route of the established universities. When looking for an apprenticeship where you graduate from will matter.

Portobell and Griffith have their place: for the offspring of legal families seeking a backdoor into the legal world.

Hogzy

Out of 9 awards that went to FE1 students 8 of them went to Griffith College students! Thats speaks for itself!

servicecharge

Mr Toad doesn't know what he is talking about. I have two friends who went to portobello and got partnership in well respected firms soon after qualification. Neither had any connection with law in the family. They just really wanted to do law, but missed out by a few points.

Once you have a 2.1 degree most firms are more interested in extra curricular things. Highly strung bright people are frequently ill suited to a client facing profession and a lot of solicitors prefer to hire good workers.

As with anything it depends on how bad you want it. You need to work your socks off and walk out with a first or very high 2.1. After that you would probably need to get a masters.

But to go back to my earlier post I don't recommend law generally, law firms want other skills. If you must do law and can't wait to reapply then do business and law at griffith.

Aprilsunshine

It would be better in the long run for the OP to do UCD/TCD/Nuig etc in terms of job opportunities as a solicitor.

Griffith and other grind school graduates getting the best jobs are the exception to the rule to be honest.

Personally I would repeat and maybe consider B & L at UCD or the new B&L TCD are introducing....I didn't do that degree myself but it does seem highly regarded especially by commercial firms.

if you plan to be a BARRISTER on the other hand then imo your university makes no difference as you are self employed.

Or just do an arts degree etc something you might enjoy studying and then use Griffith as a grind school to get your FE1s after your degree...

D.R cowboy

I don't understand what you are all saying , on your C.V it won't say Griffith college/ Portobello it will say university of Nottingham, or university of whales so no one will know.

NoQuarter

D.R cowboy wrote: »

I don't understand what you are all saying , on your C.V it won't say Griffith college/ Portobello it will say university of Nottingham, or university of whales so no one will know.

Its very easy, when you are asked what college you went to, they will then know when you tell them you went to griffith or portobello...

Reloc8

You could sort of mumble I suppose.




























that is to say that nobody need mumble about going to either college just that I think the above poster has identified a valid problem with proceeding on the basis that no one will know.

evercloserunion

Would you not consider doing a course in another subject and then going going into law after, OP? As others have said the Law Society doesn't require a law degree for you to sit the FE1s. So if it's a career as a solicitor you're after doing a course in something else might be very good for you. Do something you're interested in besides law, or something that might be relevant to your future career.

darragh666

I know the OP isnt interested anymore but for any future applicants i would recommend not going to portobello/dbs. Its a mess now and the law course is not up to much.

Arsenal1986

Would certainly echo those sentiments, I don't know who the people were who were telling the OP that Griffith/Portobello graduates had just as good job prospects. That is just untrue. At all of the interviews/drinks evenings for the big Commercial firms this year not once did I meet any Griffith/Portobello graduates. I met graduates from every other established University, some better represnted than others. I'd agree completly that you are much better off doing Arts, getting a 1.1 or 2.1, having excellent extra cirriculars and getting some work experience.

NOIMAGINATION

I know people keep mentioning the affiliation with Nottingham university - as somebody who is studying in the UK I feel I should point out that the affiliation is with Nottingham Trent University, which is not a very highly regarded university in the UK - in fact direct law graduates would have difficulty getting training contracts these days, let alone graduates from a private affiliated college.

I don't know the standard of teaching at either, but I have a friend at Griffith part time and she seems to like it - I would however recommend attending a traditional university if your planning on studying full time.

enry

Do your three year law degree in Griffith or anywhere you want and once you have a degree do you LLM in trinity. But only do the LLM if you feel you might lose the compulsory measuring competition on the first day of your course in the law society or kings inns.

A degree is only a degree (as long as you have an honors degree) you need it but its worth sh1t. I'll let you into a little secret the only people that care about degrees are those that don’t have a degree and those people that have achieved no higher level of education then a degree.

ronan11

Hi thinking of doing law part time this September. Anyone currently doing it and can recommend independent colleges over DBS or vice versa? How are you finding the course is it difficult? Any opinions appreciated